I am about to purchase a salvaged 2017 MINI. The title was issued when the dealership bought the car at auction and no one had keys to verify the mileage. Therefore, the title says "50,000 actual" even though the auction report said "not actual."

The dash now reads 3,800 miles. Other than the front end damage that was corrected, the car looks brand new.

Can I trust the dash mileage? Is there anyway for someone to have "rolled it back"?

Anyone know what Florida is going to do if I try to title the car with the mileage as "3,800 actual" when the Kansas title says 50k?

 

It is tricky...you can try to ask the dealer to write you a statement of facts that the mileage was written in error and was not actual. Also to write in the letter to have the dmv help you resolve the issue.

OR buy something less risky.

 

Make it the dealers problem. How can he sell you are anyone else a car which can not be titled. Don't buy it unless he can produce a title which will be accepted by the DMV. I would want to see a letter from the DMV that it can be registered.

Other option is to speak with one of the private title offices. In Louisiana the private title companies can do more than the State DMV. May involve a affidavit from the dealer and auction house with a statement that the mileage is not accurate must happen all the time or the dealer would of not bought the car.

 

Would not that actual mileage be in the ECU? Seems as if the dealer OBD2 system could pull the mileage up.

 

The difference between a 3800 mile car and 50000 is pretty easy to see with visual examination. Probably pretty difficult to "roll back" without serious hacking skills or a new ECU and programming.

Buying this car is opening a can of worms, the first layer is flashing warning signs.

 

Why was it salvaged? Maybe that had something to do with getting a low reading?

 

Steer clear. Mileage could just be the beginning of your problems. W/ the storms and the flooding and the number of vehicles affected, and being a "salvage" vehicle.......run away.

 

Exactly! Unless you are getting it for $1000 and want to strip it out and made a track car out of it ........ like I do

 

This is me with a 10-foot pole <imagine it>


This is me not touching the car with said 10-foot pole <again, imagine it>

 

You are looking at a car with a salvage title and you are worried about odometer discrepancy?


Check with a Mini service department to see what info can be obtained.

Odds are a dealer service department can obtain back up mileage or at least engine run time.

Odometer miles divided by engine run time equals average speed. "Average" speed is around 30mph.

Let's assume the car has 50K miles and an engine run time to match. 50,000 divided by 30mph is 1667 hours of engine run time.

Ok, now divide 3800 miles by 1667 hours of run time and you get an average speed of 2.28 mph. Implausible.

Higher then 30mph average speed is a highway car. With (true) low miles it is a track car.

Lower average speed is a garage queen/boulevard cruiser. But the car will have low miles and be in pristine shape. No interior wear/tear. Original brakes. Original tires (and possibly due to be replaced on time if not miles). No signs of wear/tear anywhere.

Real low miles is a sign of odometer tampering. A quick/dirty way is to just buy an instrument cluster from a wrecked car showing fewer miles than the car actually has and installing that.

Or if a new cluster is not that expensive one can just buy a new cluster. In most cases a new cluster can be updated with the car's actual miles but of course this step can be skipped.

Another way is with the proper equipment the contents of the non-volatile memory chip on the old cluster can be read out and then written into the non-volatile memory chip on the "new" cluster. Normally this would have the new cluster with the same miles as the old one but with the non-volatile memory image in digital form one can go in and "edit" the mileage to make it anything one desires.

Oh, about that salvage title? You need to be sure the car is worth owning. Cars don't get salvage titles for nothing. What about insurance? Will your insurance company write insurance on a car with a salvage title? Be aware resale/trade in value will be $0 with a salvage title.

 

I appreciate everyone's reply and interest in this topic! I have an accepted price of $12k right now but the mileage discrepancy put the brakes on the deal temporarily while I research whether or not I care.

Up front, I plan to "buy and hold" this car making it our daily driver. My Dad has extensive experience in auto body repair and took a look at the car and thought it looked great. He saw no frame damage and negotiated the price on my behalf (I'm military out of state). Clearly, I'm not worried about something "risky." I will buy this car if it is in fact a bargain. The car has everything we want and is discounted about $10k, the only thing my wife doesn't love is the color and wheels (melted metallic silver, I'll plan to swap the wheels). We can insure this car but would probably decide to insure it liability only. For anyone that cares, USAA's comprehensive premiums are independent of title status but the PAYOUT would be reduced by a completely unknown amount for this rebuilt title (anywhere from 5-50%).

First, let me clarify what I know about this vehicle's salvage history. According to CARFAX and google cache, the vehicle sold with about 20 miles in January 2017. I have the CARFAX pdf if anyone cares to take a look. No further servicing was reported until the accident in late October 17. The vehicle was totaled for a collision in late November and sold at auction. Below is a photo of the car after the accident. Air bags did not deploy according to CARFAX and the auction company. This was not a flooded car, it has been in Kansas/Missouri it's whole life.

Cached auction link example (look down at the bottom to see an image of this car)

Next, the mileage appears to be a title mistake that the dealer is trying to sort out before I go any further. Because no key was available when the car was totaled and sold at auction the mileage was reported as "50,000 miles, NOT actual." When the rebuilt title was reissued it was issued by mistake as "50,000 miles, actual." It sounds like the dealer may be able to get an odometer disclosure from the auction and correct the title error with the DMV themselves. I agree with the sentiment here, this is a pretty big error that I would prefer they sort out.

The vehicle looks great. I am inclined to believe the odometer but I wanted to get Mini specific considerations regarding what would happen if the instrument cluster or ECU was changed. I don't know that either of those things happened, just asking for model specific advice. Rock, is your information generic or specific to F56?

Honestly, I'll most likely drive this vehicle beyond 50,000 miles so the error will be less significant when I go to resell. Still, a frustrating thing to deal with buying and selling.

Again, thanks for everyone's help!

 

I'm sure this has crossed your mind, but if saving $10,000 off used market or new sticker is worth buying a salvaged title car, you should also consider the repair and maintenance cost on a car like this. Not even getting to the resale value, but assuming the Mini factory warranty is void, which it most likely is, that would normally last you to 50k miles or so. That's potentially quite a few expensive oil changes and possible repairs that can add up very quickly with cars like this.

For example, I'm about ready to trade in my (clean title, bought used from a reputable name-brand luxury dealer) 2014 Mini Cooper S simply because its factory warranty is about to expire and if I had to pay for all the warranty repairs its gone through in one year of ownership, I could have bought another Mini Cooper S once over. Granted, my case may be an outlier, but keep in mind, mine also wasn't a salvage. I would only pull the trigger on something like this if I was going to make a track toy like someone else suggested or if I planned on keeping the car forever and working on it myself.

 

Not to mention insurance giving you anything if an accident would happen

 

50,000 miles for a 2017 would be a lot of driving.

 

Based on the damage shown, I can see where a good body shop could get the car looking good again. I can also see a 2017 getting wrecked w/ 3800 miles. Actually makes more sense than 50K (although if the car was used for sales, it could have that kind of high mileage). So getting that sorted would be paramount.

Tis' a crap shoot. Car may turn out to be a decent car over the long term or a money pit. Only time will tell. Overall, Mini doesn't have a sterling record for a trouble free car (even w/o being totaled). That being said, w/o a factory warranty, any repairs you have will eat up any of the savings you have w/ a low purchase price. Parts are expensive and labor is worse.

Since you decided to roll the dice on it, I wish you the best of luck w/ the car.

 

It would, but not out the realm for a Sales guy. I have one tool supplier that covers the entire mid-west area, from OK to ND and from NE to OH. He gets a new vehicle every 2 years, since he clocks right around 50K miles a year. Not sure how he handles that much time behind the wheel, but he has been doing it for 15+ years.

If the car was an early 2017, it could have almost 1.5 years of service on it, which the records should show for an 'in-service' date. Has the OP ran a Carfax on it or talked to a dealer to see if they reveal any additional info?

 

I ran the carfax. There was no service reported from when it sold in December 16 to when it was wrecked in October 17. Obviously I believe the mileage to be accurate, the car was very clean.

Time will tell if it was worth the risk. At $11k we're getting a pretty fantastic potential of a car.

 

I wager on lower than the 50K...but car would have to be driven very little for the 10 months of operation (since 12-15K is normal) to have 3800 miles.

All speculation....wonder how the 3800 miles number was arrived at? 6800-7800-8800 would seem more plausible for 10 months of operation. If actually only 3800, you should have plenty of good miles ahead of you providing the accident didn't rattle other things around too much.

Don't suppose there is anyway of tracking down the original owner of the car. I did w/ a used Corvette I bought w/ exceptionally low miles. Taking to the original owner put many questions to rest. original owner was very forthcoming and actually happy to know where his car wound up.

Again, best of luck w/ the car........

 

Tracking down the original owner is a great idea. I don't believe this car is coming with any of the original title work but I will certainly try to pull it from the auction/seller if its out there.

The 3800 miles is what the odometer actually reads. The seller says the dash was never touched. The accident had no frame damage and the airbags did not deploy so the dash shouldn't of been touched.

The only reason to suspect the mileage could be off is because it is titled incorrectly. The battery lines were cut after the accident so when it sold it had no power. The auction just titled it "mileage not actual" because of this. Since there is no great paper trail on the car's mileage it is plausible that a dealer tampered with the odometer after rebuilding it. Honestly, the risk of this happening is certainly not unique to this sale. And the car LOOKS like a 4,000 mile car which is ultimately why I bought it.

 

My guess there is a paper trail through the DMV in the state of purchase. Also running the VIN should show something of interest. Mini should have a record of ownership based on that number. I know my BMW and MINI VIN's show me as the owner.

 

I've been tracked down as a past owner, frankly didn't appreciate it. You want to talk about a car to someone who crashed it?

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind as long as the questions they had were legit. Mileage at the time of surrender would be a legitimate question IMO. I wouldn't venture into anything regarding the accident unless the person volunteered it.

In the case of my Corvette purchase, I asked about what services the car had and the mileage. The guy was forthcoming and even told me why they traded. Kid on the way and the Corvette isn't a family car.