Just heard on the radio that the Feds are fining them $millions

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/nhtsa-fi...ons-1450718211

Doesn't look like they are required to fix the issue, just pay a fine and happily motor on until a model change..

http://www.nhtsa.gov/About+NHTSA/Press+Releases/2015/nhtsa-bmw-fined-$40-million-12212015

 

That's brutal....and deserved. Honestly I'm kind a little pissed at MINI for not acting sooner now that we know the full details. I haul my kid around in the car and I never would have knowing it there was that big of a risk.

 

I always said the MINI is a basic economy car no matter the trim. BMW doesn't care unless it is their own brand and I am not even sure.

I drove HT S as loaners a few times and it is always the same problem no matter they were brand new 2015 models. There is too much flexing in the overall body structure and the cheap plastic interior trim always tell you from where it is coming from.

 

The 2014 is extremely stiff in my opinion, fully loaded sideways with new rubber and with full throttle while over-boosted, and over bumps. What's your opinion based on?

Trim is generally considered good starting in 2014?

 

Interesting, and a little scary. I was under the impression that this side impact recall was so minor that they just needed to add a little bit of foam behind an interior panel. A technicality, really. I wasn't planning to take the time to bring the car in until my next oil change (in a year- I don't put many miles on). But this article says even with the correction, it still fails NHTSA's test. So maybe the problem is more serious, and I should be getting it fixed... however, their fix doesn't work, so I guess I won't be getting it fixed... sigh. Oh well, enjoying the drive in the meantime!

 

I'm skeptical of such things...in this day & age it's really very hard to trust just about any regulation. If you are in business and deal with regulations, you should "get it"! So, how does the R56 hold up against the F56 in the exact crash test?

My guess is the R56 would fail miserably. The F56 is a better car! Regulations constantly "strangle business" and they drive up the cost of automobiles by setting ever-increasing stringent standards that can be "unobtainium" by manufacturers.

I'd like to see some detailed research on this and any issue that fails safety testing.....not every issue is due to dishonesty or or bean counters making the manufacturer "skimp" on the build!

And the side impact is absolutely fine in other countries, but not the USA? Give me a break....if you don't see what's happening, you're pretty naive!

 

This article is complete rubbish. It's doesnt explain anything about the mini in detail and spends 3/4 of the time talking about GM ignition switches and VW's dirty diesels.

 

Very true, Tests have been changing making the of those test more difficult.

14. How does NHTSA perform the side barrier crash test?
Crash test dummies representing an average-sized adult male and a small-sized adult female are placed in the driver and rear passenger seats (driver’s side), respectively, and are secured with seat belts. The side crash rating represents an intersection-type collision by having a 3,015-pound barrier moving at 38.5 mph into a standing vehicle. The moving barrier is covered with material that is crushable to replicate the front of a vehicle. Instruments measure the force of impact to each dummy’s body regions. The side barrier front seat rating is an evaluation of injury to the head, chest, abdomen, and pelvis for the driver and front seat passenger dummy. The side barrier rear seat rating is an evaluation of injury to the head and pelvis for the rear seat passenger (second row occupants). It is possible to compare all vehicles with each other when looking at side barrier ratings since all rated vehicles are impacted by the same-sized barrier.
15. How does NHTSA perform the new side pole crash test and how are vehicles rated?
A small-sized adult female crash test dummy is placed in the driver’s seat and is secured with a seat belt. The test vehicle, angled at 75 degrees, is then pulled sideways at 20 mph into a 25-cm diameter pole at the driver’s seating location. This test mimics a side impact crash involving a narrow, fixed object like a utility pole or tree.
Instruments measure the force of impact to the dummy’s head, chest, lower spine, abdomen, and pelvis. Unless otherwise noted, the side pole rating is an evaluation of injury to the head and pelvis for both the driver and front seat passenger. It is possible to compare all vehicles to each other when looking at side pole ratings because all rated vehicles impact the same-sized pole.


Lately it seems (at least form news reports) that the car and equipment manufacturers (BMW,VW, GM, Toyota, Ford, Takata, etc.) know of the fault and cheat or proceed hoping no one will notice.

I agree that many federal bureaucracies constantly evolve and change rules to justify their existence (and funding).
http://www.nhtsa.gov/About+NHTSA/Pre...traint+Systems
If the MINI was a fiery chariot of death, NHTSA would have demanded a recall rather than a payoff.

Is the side impact failure a deal breaker, probably not. Plenty of cars and trucks sold here fail some portion of a crash test (or are not tested). I think the issue is BMW lied and then lied again.

Something fun to play with:

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/databas...v&v_tstno=8755

 

I'm pretty happy with having stringent regulations and product liability lawyers. Corporations have no soul, they cheat and chase profit to the detriment of we the people. I remember the uproar when those new fangled seat belts became mandatory, how many of us would be gone without them?

 

A more detailed explanation for your reading enjoyment:


National Highway Traffic Safety Administration fines BMW $40 million for failing to meet safety requirements




NHTSA 53-15
Monday, December 21, 2015
Contact: Gordon Trowbridge, 202-366-9550, Public.Affairs@dot.gov

Fine is auto company’s second since 2012


WASHINGTON – The U.S. Department of Transportation’s National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has imposed a $40 million civil penalty and a series of performance requirements to automaker BMW North America for a series of violations of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act and NHTSA regulations.
Under terms of a Consent Order issued to BMW, the company acknowledges that it violated requirements to issue a timely recall of vehicles that did not comply with minimum crash protection standards, to notify owners of recalls in a timely fashion, and to provide accurate information about its recalls to NHTSA. NHTSA imposed a $3 million civil penalty to BMW in 2012 for similar violations.
“NHTSA has discovered multiple instances in which BMW failed its obligations to its customers, to the public and to safety,” said U.S. Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx. “The Consent Order NHTSA has issued not only penalizes this misconduct, it requires BMW to take a series of steps to remedy the practices and procedures that led to these violations.”
The Consent Order resolves a NHTSA investigation into whether the company failed to issue a recall within five days of learning that 2014 and 2015 Mini Cooper models failed to meet regulatory minimums for side-impact crash protection.
In Oct. 2014, a Mini 2 Door Hardtop Cooper failed a crash test designed to determine whether the vehicle met crash-protection minimums. The company responded that the vehicle was listed with an incorrect weight and would pass the test if conducted at the proper weight rating, but agreed to conduct a recall to correct the incorrect weight rating on the vehicle’s Tire Information Placard and to conduct a voluntary service campaign, short of a recall, to add additional side-impact protection.
In July 2015, NHTSA conducted a second crash test at the corrected weight rating on a vehicle with the additional side-impact protection, and the vehicle again failed. At that time, NHTSA learned that BMW had not launched the service campaign it had agreed to conduct. Under the Consent Order, BMW acknowledges that it failed to recall the noncompliant vehicles in a timely fashion. It also acknowledges additional violations discovered in NHTSA’s investigation, including failing in multiple recalls since its 2012 consent order to notify owners and dealers of recalls in a timely fashion and to provide required quarterly recall completion reports on time.
“The requirement to launch recalls and inform consumers in a timely fashion when a safety defect or noncompliance is discovered is fundamental to our system for protecting the traveling public. This is a must-do,” said NHTSA Administrator Mark Rosekind. “For the second time in three years, BMW has been penalized for failing to meet that obligation. The company must take this opportunity to reform its procedures and its culture to put safety where it belongs: at the top of its priority list.”
The order’s $40 million civil penalty includes $10 million due in cash, a requirement that the company spend at least $10 million meeting the order’s performance obligations, and $20 million in deferred penalties that will come due if the company fails to comply with the Order or commits other safety violations.
In addition to paying the civil penalties, BMW must:

• Retain a NHTSA-approved independent safety consultant to help the company develop best practices for complying with the Motor Vehicle Safety Act and NHTSA regulations and submit those best practices to NHTSA.
• Evaluate, under the independent consultant’s guidance, all safety or compliance-related issues under the company’s review and provide a monthly written report to NHTSA on those issues.
• Launch a pilot program to determine whether the company can use data analytics capabilities to detect emerging safety-related defect trends.
• Establish a plan to deter BMW dealers from selling new vehicles with unremedied safety defects, a requirement stemming from the fact that during NHTSA’s investigation, a NHTSA representative purchased a new vehicle with an open safety recall from a BMW dealer.

• Read NHTSA’s consent order to BMW
• Read the opening resume of NHTSA’s BMW investigation
• Read BMW’s recall of 2014 and 2015 Mini Cooper models to comply with crash-protection standards

Stay connected with NHTSA: Search for open recalls with VIN look up | Download the Safercar Mobile App for Apple or Android devices | Receive recall alerts by email | Visit us on Facebook.com/NHTSA | Follow us on Twitter.com/NHTSAgov | Watch 5-Star Safety Ratings crash tests on YouTube.com/USDOTNHTSA | SaferCar.gov

 

So, they got caught trying to get by with a new sticker.

 

So is this problem being addressed? Has it been addressed on the 2016 models? How do we find out? And what test or portion of the test exactly did the car fail?

 

The NHTSA is only applicable to the USA....what about the dozens of other countries BMW exports MINI's to? They are perfectly fine in those countries right? Does anyone know about recalls or fines in other countries? Hmmmmm...I'm concerned about "safety" as much as the next person, but the whole process just smells to me!

 

Honestly, this issue isn't a big deal to me personally. Factoring in the variables, chances are pretty slim of this "failure to pass" costing me my life on a US road. Certainly others will have their perspective and views on this also and run counter to mine.

To your point, each country has their own standards for safety and health. What may not be acceptable in the US may be perfectly fine in countries like China, India. Not that I would be particularity fine breathing their air, or drinking their water.

Because BMW decided to sell in the US market, they agree to and must meet the US standards of safety and emissions. Failure to meet or misleading (BMW) or cheating (VW), results in a fine and in some cases recall of all vehicles sold.

Again, each company knows the rules going in, and the penalty for non-compliance. So any defense to the contrary is moot.

Are some of the rules established by federal regulators over the top? IMO, yes. I suppose when it gets to a point where no manufacturer can meet their standards, they will either back off or we'll all be driving horse drawn wagons. But with all bureaucracies, they will always try and justify their continued existence and enlarge their scope control by changing the rules of the game and/or moving the goalposts back. One only has to look to history to validate this.

Just my perspective, I could be wrong.

 

Well, as far as "other countries" I wasn't thinking about China or India....come on, be realistic here. Most countries are responsible when it comes to protecting our environment....let's not even go there. We are talking about design of safety in cars for human beings...I believe this is very political, not realistic regulation of the auto industry.

The US Federal Regulations w/r/t emissions did everything but kill the US automotive industry in the mid 1970's...it took decades for the US auto manufacturers to recover and be able to produce fuel efficient cars yet something "driveable" that wasn't so ugly you wanted to hide the thing from everyone! Don't even get me started on that subject.

Ok yes, VW cheated...shame on them! I just have a problem with the PC crowd that points fingers at huge corporations as being EVIL "all the time"!

Let's not get in the weeds ok?....what we are talking about here is MINI not meeting some regulation for side impact. Is one car complete crap because there might be a few millimeters less of foam in the side panel? I don't believe so.....it all comes down to who decides to create a certain "rule"...and not all engineers/designers agree on such things!

One reason the F56 MINI is bigger, is due to the required & mostly desirable safety features being built into the cars today. My bet is the F56 with a few millimeters less side impact foam is light years safer than the previous generations when it gets to the same "impact testing".

I just hate to see regulations strangle the automotive business. Back in the 1980's when BMW's bound for the US were only available with reduced horsepower, big ugly bumpers, and other sometimes ridiculous features on the cars, buyers did everything possible to remove these features & covert to European spec, or if your pockets were deep enough import a Euro model and have it converted to US spec. To me that was all created by Regulation overreach...and it cost Americans needlessly.

Unfortunately, this trend obviously continues to this day sadly. The only reason BMW even bothers importing cars to the USA is because we are a HUGE market for their cars. They aren't stupid, they are forced to be creative to be able to comply with sometimes downright stupid regulations.

But, like you, this is just my opinion.

 

So what do you call it when a huge corportation places the priority of their product sales/money over the safety of you and your children ?

An Angel Company ?

They have all done it, and will continue to do it as long as they're permitted to.....In most cases they are aware of discrepencies before new cars leave the factory. Unfortunately fines are never high enough to warrant or discourge their fixing them before delivery to dealer lots....

 

I believe the fix works. The reason they got into trouble is the delay in notifying owners, and allowing dealers to sell the cars in 2014, after they knew about the problem. They eventually did everything right, but the delay in stopping sales, until Feb 2015, and deploying the recall was the real violation. It did not help that an investigator bought a car that was not fixed.

 

Thanks for the detailed information!

All subcompact cars have a disatvantage out on the roads when the majority of cars are 3000lbs or much heavier and much taller. If you have your children in the back seat, like I do, there is a risk regardless whatever BMW can do. For me it's impractical to commute with a SUV. I wish I could have the safety of a large SUV but even an SUV can be vulnerable to a large truck.
I drive alert and carefully regardless of what I drive. Also I'm not anti safety regulation either. Cars are much safer today and only the government will push manufacturer's to make them more so. What I like is the pressure the government puts on auto manufacturers to make cars safer AND more fuel efficient.

 

Good reasoning! I want to be clear: I have no issues whatsoever with safety improvements in cars. That was never my point. What I have a problem with is the selective targeting and apparent general application of some (i.e. and sometimes overly strict) regulations to all models of cars & manufacturers.

I fear we will all be driving around in cars designed by the Government some day, and there will be no more MINI styling since every slanted-brick style car will look and drive the exact same....this is what I fear!...The regulations absolutely "crippling innovation" in the automotive business.

 

Im wondering if its possible for anyone to keep their political viewpoints to themselves and just answer the questions I asked?

 

I thought I did answer it. The fix (the recall) worked. I assume they have put the extra protection in the new cars going forward.

 

You did answer it....just have to read your response. There's also a recall website you can plug your VIN into to see if your car is the subject of any recall. As I understood it before this thread even started was the subject cars were primarily 2014's and some early 2015's. So, later 2015's & 2016's aren't of a concern.

 

Yes, I had the recall done two months ago.

 

Well, You answered part of it. But thanks.