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-   -   Automatic Transmission Fluid Question (https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/f55-f56-f57-stock-problems-issues/313023-automatic-transmission-fluid-question.html)

rk15000 03-24-2017 05:28 AM

Automatic Transmission Fluid Question
 
Hi All,

I'm getting ready to change my ATF for the first time in my F56S, and have been looking for the proper OEM fluid to use.

It seems that a lot of people out there are recommending the JWS 3309 product in the black bottle from MINI: http://new.minimania.com/part/NMG730...s-3309-1-Liter

This person even used JWS 3309 in theirs:

However, Mini Mania reports that the NEW, 3rd gen F56 MINI does not use this product, but BMW ATF 6? http://new.minimania.com/part/G3NMG7...55-F56-F57-F54

FYI I also noticed that the trans model # in the R56 is GA6F21WA, while in the F56 it is GA6F21AW. At first I thought it was a typo ("WA" vs "AW"), but these do, in fact, appear to be two different transmissions.

So, is ATF 6 actually the correct fluid to use, and not the JWS 3309? Does anyone know if they are greatly different from each other?

All these different ATFs are becoming very confusing. :impatient:

ECSTuning 03-24-2017 07:00 AM

MINI states per the ETK that the oil is ATF 6 83222355599, the F56 has an updated version of the Aisin 6 speed that the older MINI have.

The JWS 3309 83222220438 is compatible with Redline D4 ATF 70/75w gl-4 which is for the gen 1 and Gen 2 MINI with the Aisin automatic.

So is the ATF 6 compatible redline D6 ATF 70/75w gl-4

D6 is the same but with a lower viscosity shear stable fluid which is what the newest Aisin MINI transmission recommends F56+. Will it do anything if you run JWS 3309 in the F56+, might not. It's hard to tell as it would have to be a long-term analysis.

Chazman 03-27-2017 01:56 PM


Originally Posted by ECSTuning (Post 4289837)
Will it do anything if you run JWS 3309 in the F56+, might not. It's hard to tell as it would have to be a long-term analysis.

I'm also interested in finding out if anyone has used JWS 3309 (ATF IV) on the F56 6-speed Aisin A/T and what the outcome is whether good or bad. :confused:

spyked 03-27-2017 02:22 PM

Considering its still an Aisin 6A, the changes in fluid from Gen 2 to Gen 3 might have to do with the stop/start system. Mercedes-Benz updated their fluid requirements when they changed from 7G to 7G Plus (in part to accommodate start/stop systems). The new cars might require very specific viscosity and other parameters to work with start/stop applications.

Lucila 04-03-2017 11:55 AM

How often does the fluid need to be changed?

Chazman 04-03-2017 01:12 PM


Originally Posted by spyked (Post 4290572)
Considering its still an Aisin 6A, the changes in fluid from Gen 2 to Gen 3 might have to do with the stop/start system. Mercedes-Benz updated their fluid requirements when they changed from 7G to 7G Plus (in part to accommodate start/stop systems). The new cars might require very specific viscosity and other parameters to work with start/stop applications.



I heard that Aisin 6-A is mechanically almost identical between 2G and 3G. The main difference is in the software so basically same ATF can be used with no problem. And actually Aisin is selling the same "AISIN" brand JWS3309 spec ATF as a correct fluid to be used for both models.

Chazman 04-03-2017 01:15 PM


Originally Posted by Lucila (Post 4292036)
How often does the fluid need to be changed?



I'm thinking every 60K to 100K mile. Some dealers are recommending every 20-40K miles. There are several factors involved, the way you drive, city/hwy, climate, etc. It's like how your brake pads can wear out depending on driving.

hp79 04-04-2017 02:09 PM


Originally Posted by Lucila (Post 4292036)
How often does the fluid need to be changed?

C'mon, everyone knows it's a Lifetime fluid! lol.
Seriously, I would like to know the answer to this. Yeah, there's going to be variables, but still, there should be some kind of rated life, right?

My 2014 Mazda CX-5 also claims to be Lifetime fluid.

Chazman 04-05-2017 09:20 AM


Originally Posted by hp79 (Post 4292321)
there should be some kind of rated life, right?

Of course, nothing is forever!

Drain your ATF and see how clean/dirty it is and set your own change interval.
If not sure how to tell, send out sample ATF to a fluid lab and see what they say. It costs about $20 per test. That's how commercial fleets determine.

Chazman 04-06-2017 12:26 PM

Does anyone know the the socket type & sizes for following 2 bolts:

1. Fill hole bolt?
2. Secondary drain bolt? In the video author says it's T40 and then T55 later. Which is correct? And I assume it's Torx type.

If anyone knows for sure, please post.

Thanks!

rk15000 04-07-2017 04:14 PM


Originally Posted by Chazman (Post 4292816)
Does anyone know the the socket type & sizes for following 2 bolts:

1. Fill hole bolt?
2. Secondary drain bolt? In the video author says it's T40 and then T55 later. Which is correct? And I assume it's Torx type.

If anyone knows for sure, please post.

Thanks!

Fill hole = T55
Drain Bolt = T40

Chazman 04-12-2017 11:26 AM

Thanks for posting the bolt sizes.
I have a T40 in my set but not the T55. It always helps when you have the right tool!

BTW, how does the "overflow tube" thing on the main drain plug work on this Mini?
If you put too much ATF, does it drain out with the secondary (smaller) drain plug out?

rk15000 04-12-2017 11:55 AM

Check your local Home Depot or Lowes for the T55 bit. I bought mine there (Home Depot) for $2.

So there is actually a "2 stage" drain on this MINI (I think it's the same on the Rs if I'm not mistaken)...

Basically the overflow plug (the T40 bolt) handles just what it says - ATF overflow.

However, the overflow plug is screwed into a larger, 17MM hex bolt/standpipe combo. Undo this, and trans fluid will drain faster, simply because the opening is much larger.

I have the instructions (direct from MINI themselves) on how to change the trans fluid on the F56, as well as the torque specs. I am at work now, and it's on my home computer. I can PM you (and anyone else interested) in this information when I get home...

rk15000 04-12-2017 11:58 AM


Originally Posted by Chazman (Post 4292058)
I'm thinking every 60K to 100K mile. Some dealers are recommending every 20-40K miles. There are several factors involved, the way you drive, city/hwy, climate, etc. It's like how your brake pads can wear out depending on driving.

I haven't changed mine yet, but I am planning on every 30-35K. I'm not sure if the ATF 6 is full synthetic (I think the JWS 3309 was conventional). If it's not, it'll break down even quicker and require changing more often.

Chazman 04-12-2017 12:04 PM


Originally Posted by rk15000 (Post 4294111)
I have the instructions (direct from MINI themselves) on how to change the trans fluid on the F56, as well as the torque specs. I am at work now, and it's on my home computer. I can PM you (and anyone else interested) in this information when I get home...



That will be AWESOME if you would PM me the instruction with the torque spec. Thanks!:thumbsup:

Paul S. 04-12-2017 09:40 PM


Originally Posted by rk15000 (Post 4294111)
Check your local Home Depot or Lowes for the T55 bit. I bought mine there (Home Depot) for $2.

So there is actually a "2 stage" drain on this MINI (I think it's the same on the Rs if I'm not mistaken)...

Basically the overflow plug (the T40 bolt) handles just what it says - ATF overflow.

However, the overflow plug is screwed into a larger, 17MM hex bolt/standpipe combo. Undo this, and trans fluid will drain faster, simply because the opening is much larger.

I have the instructions (direct from MINI themselves) on how to change the trans fluid on the F56, as well as the torque specs. I am at work now, and it's on my home computer. I can PM you (and anyone else interested) in this information when I get home...

I'd appreciate if you could pm the instructions/specs to do this:)

Chazman 04-17-2017 10:04 AM

2 Attachment(s)
I did the ATF change for the first time on my MCS that has 64000 miles.
To my surprise, I did really feel some difference in shifting quality after the ATF change - smooth!

Here is my summary/tips:
> No metallic particles or anything came out, just plain black/dirty ATF.
> I drained out about 3.1 qts and added exactly the same amount.
> I used JWS 3309 spec ATF (per AISIN recommendation) from Mobil.
> Tools needed - T-55 (filler hole bolt), T-40 (overflow drain screw) and 17-mm Hex (main drain plug).
> Loosen the filler hole bolt first using T-55 so you are sure you can add! Mine was super tight and would not budge even with a 24" breaker bar. More force I applied, I felt like it would strip it. So, I used an impact and the fill bolt came right off easily.
> Loosen the overflow screw using T-40 and let it drain all out if you don't want to get too messy. Or you can just remove the main drain plug using 17-mm Hex right away and expect to get messy.
> Tightening torque spec for the main drain plug is 45 NM or 33 ft.lbs
> Tightening torque spec for the overflow screw is 8 NM or 6 ft.lbs
> Tightening torque spec for the fill plug is 45 NM or 33 ft.lbs
> Manual suggests to replace the O-ring on above each plug.

rk15000 04-17-2017 11:17 AM

Congratulations Chazman! Glad to hear it improved your shifting.

One question, though - Was there any reason why you chose the JWS 3309 over the BMW ATF 6? If you have an F56, ATF 6 is the recommended fluid (see earlier post from ECS Tuning).

Chazman 04-17-2017 11:53 AM

I used JWS 3309 mainly because that was readily available from a nearby auto parts store nearby.

ECSTuning 04-17-2017 01:54 PM

Was it pretty dirty on the new Aisin 6 speed? When it came out?

We just picked up the Aisin brand JWS 3009 also. Have all three my MINIs on Redline for the manuals and its worked great.

Chazman 04-17-2017 01:58 PM

Yes, mine was much overdue. It was so dark couldn't even tell whether engine oil or ATF. However, it didn't have the burnt smell which was a good sign. Since drain/fill method replaces only 3 qts or so, I will need to replace ATF more frequently.

ECSTuning 04-17-2017 02:06 PM

Thats good it did not smell burnt. Most of the time they get a little graphite color to the oil as the wearing of the friction plates. I guess if you do heavy traffic or smoky burnouts all the time you would have a burnt smell. I figured in LA it would be dirty from the heavy stop and go. The ATF JWS stuff does have a weird smell anyway and when you get that stuff on your hands it stinks. MTF stinks too but not as bad as the Gen 1 MINI supercharger oil..yuk

WhatV8 04-18-2017 10:52 AM


Originally Posted by ECSTuning (Post 4295226)
Thats good it did not smell burnt. Most of the time they get a little graphite color to the oil as the wearing of the friction plates. I guess if you do heavy traffic or smoky burnouts all the time you would have a burnt smell. I figured in LA it would be dirty from the heavy stop and go. The ATF JWS stuff does have a weird smell anyway and when you get that stuff on your hands it stinks. MTF stinks too but not as bad as the Gen 1 MINI supercharger oil..yuk

I am guessing that those 'stinky' lubes have some form of 'friction modifiers' in them for the clutches and such. My rear diff in my Mustang (disc type LSD) requires a friction modifier to be added to the gear oil and that stuff is just simply rank! I remember buying it for the first time and thinking that a skunk just hit the dealership's lot when the parts guy notified me it was the friction modifier. He warned me not to open the plastic bag it was in or especially open the bottle in the building as the aroma apparently caused a gag reaction with him :sly:. I keep a bottle on hand and have it double zip-lock bagged on the shelf...whew!

rk15000 05-01-2017 06:11 AM

Well, now that we're finally having some better weather here in the Northeast, I finally got around to changing my transmission fluid.

I can echo Chazman's experience...I got about 3 quarts out. However, mine was not black but a medium brown color (my car only has 34K on it). There were also some very fine wear particles, which could be expected.

I used the BMW ATF 6 fluid, and put about 3.5 qts back in to compensate for any additional fluid loss that may have occurred.

Did I notice any difference while driving afterwards? I would say so - the shifts are less abrupt (especially downshifts). However, I bet I could have stretched the existing fluid longer, no problems. I think I'll run this batch of fluid for another 50K before changing again, as the fluid is quite expensive (almost $40 a quart).

To those of you waiting for the instructions, I'll do my best to send you a link soon (I don't have access to Dropbox at work). Thanks for your patience :)

boubi 06-09-2017 11:21 AM

Hi,
is there any official recommendations from Mini about the exact quantity of oil you have to fill the gearbox with ??
Because measuring what comes out is a solution, but is it precise enough.............I'm wondering ;)

I have just seen on the minimania website that it is mentioned that the oil capacity is : 5.8 quarts (5.50 liters).
So, if I understand well, it means that when you change the transmission oil by yourself, only 55% of the oil comes out ( as people says above they got about 3 quarts out ).............!!


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