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Automatic Transmission Fluid Question

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  #101  
Old 11-26-2023, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TVPostSound
ATF WS?? Really? That’s exclusive Toyota ATF. I have a case for my Lexus!!
Ayup.

Just to simplify all this without all the technobabble oil spec backstory we've all been kicking around -- and to validate this -- AISIN has a product selector site. If you put in the 2017 Mini Cooper it points you to straight to their ATF-0WS product.

And then, if you decide to do something crazy like pay FCP Euro a visit, you'll spot "Part No. ATF-0WS" sitting on the bottom right corner of the front label of the "ATF WS" bottle.
 
  #102  
Old 11-26-2023, 08:40 PM
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0WS is zero weight World Service ATF

Make perfect sense as it seems Aisin wants to use 1 type for all its newer transmissions.

Toyota and Lexus have been strictly using WS for over 10 years


Did you discover their dirty little secret?

WS is not inexpensive either!! Toyota labeled us $12 to $15 qt
 
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  #103  
Old 11-26-2023, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TVPostSound
Toyota labeled us $12 to $15 qt
$10.39 regular price at FCP Euro, currently on sale (Cyber Weekend) for $9.71
 
  #104  
Old 12-13-2023, 08:09 AM
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Did another ATF change on my AISIN GA6F21AW, using guidelines from TIS.
  • Fluid used: AISIN ATF WS, part number ATF-0WS, comes in 1 quart bottles.
    • This is an ATF6 and a 1 quart bottle would correlate to BMW part 83222355599 (though (1) the BMW-labeled ATF is probably Febi, and (2) the BMW-labeled ATF specifies a 1 liter bottle, not a 1 quart).
  • Amount used: just under 3 quarts.
    • Similar to last time, about 2.75 quarts drained out even though the capacity of the transmission is significantly higher. Fluid that came out was again more brown than red, with the red only visible under light and certain angles.
      • This leads me to more frequent rather than less frequent changes, to help get old oil out by dilution.
    • Having done this 2x now and getting to know the GA6F21AW better as a result, from here on out I think I'm just going to use 3 full quarts.
  • As I did the last time, I replaced seals on all 3 plugs (fill plug, drain plug, overflow plug within drain plug). One thing I am learning about BMWs: just replace the doggoned seals, especially if they are O-rings or similar material. Seriously. These machines really require seals to be in good shape, the few bucks you save by not replacing a seal will bite you later, and the materials BMW uses for some of these seals isn't exactly resilient.
Process was again simple. All of this is specifically for the GA6F21AW and not presumed to apply to any other model. BTW you're going to have to start the car as part of the refill process, so be expecting that.
  1. All this starts with a cold engine. Not warm, *cold*. It matters during the refill process.
  2. Make sure you have:
    • Ideally, a scan tool that can show you operating temp of the transmission.
    • Your seals. Part numbers for the ones you need for the GA6F21AW are 24278627907, 24278627913, 24278627917 (1 of each needed).
    • A long funnel.
    • At least 3 quarts of the ATF you are going to use. Ideally, four, because you're going to use at least 3 as a practical matter.
    • The following socket bits: Torx T-50, Torx T-40, 17mm hex.
  3. Get the car on jackstands (or lift, or you get the idea) and **level**. THE CAR BEING LEVEL MATTERS. And it needs to be on jackstands/other unless you can fit under a Mini Cooper.
  4. Loosen fill plug (Torx T-50). (Remove the airbox to get to it; remove whatever you have to to get the airbox off. It's not hard. Be kind to your MAF connector though).
    • IF YOU CANNOT LOOSEN THIS PLUG, STOP. PUT IT ALL BACK TOGETHER. Draining is no good if you can't refill.
    • First time I did this, this step was easy. This time I probably should have used a breaker bar. But it did pop loose, so all good.
  5. With a drain pan in place, remove overflow plug (Torx T-40) within drain plug. (You'll have to remove the underbody shield to get to it. It's not hard).
  6. Wait for ATF draining to slow to a point where more work in that spot won't splatter all over the place.
  7. With drain pan still in place, remove drain plug (17mm hex socket).
  8. Now the bulk of the ATF you can drain will actually drain. Go get coffee or a sandwich or something while it does.
  9. Clean off the removed plugs and remove their old seals.
  10. Put the new seals on the plugs.
  11. Refit the drain plug and torque to spec (45 Nm). Do NOT refit the overflow plug yet.
  12. If you have a container for the ATF you drained, put it in there just to get a bead on how much ATF actually came out.
  13. Put the drain pan back under the drain.
  14. Using the funnel, refill ATF until it begins to drain out of the hole in the drain plug. This happened for me around 2.5 quarts. Take your time with this -- it takes at least 30 seconds, sometimes more, for what you're putting in at the top to find its way to bottom. If you rush it you're going to waste new ATF.
    • DO NOT REMOVE THE FUNNEL (you're not done refilling yet).
  15. Start the car.
  16. Check to see if you have additional oil overflow at the drain plug (you almost certainly won't -- that's fine).
  17. Let the car reach idle (this should not take long -- DO NOT wait for the car to get to operating temperature). Keep an eye on that drain plug for additional oil overflow (unlikely that you're going to get much, if any at all -- that's fine).
  18. Using the funnel, refill ATF until it begins to drain out of the hole in the drain plug. This happened for me around 2.75 quarts. Again, take your time with this, if you rush it you're going to waste new ATF (and you also don't want to just dump it in and seriously overfill).
    • DO NOT REMOVE THE FUNNEL (you're not done refilling yet).
  19. Next you have to get fluid moving through parts of the transmission by doing some specific gearshifting. These are BMW instructions:
    • Actuate footbrake and at idle shift through all gears "P" to "D" **twice** for more than 2 seconds [in each position].
    • Move switch to "P" position.
  20. WAIT until the temperature of the ATF is 35 - 45 °C. (yes, that is CELSIUS not Fahrenheit !!!)
    • THIS IS IMPORTANT. DON'T SKIP IT.
    • THIS IS ALSO BMW INSTRUCTION.
    • If you do not have a scan tool, give the car maybe 15 minutes to run and it will get there, unless your car is sitting in outside/cold. Actually it might hit the temp anyway even in the cold. You get the idea though -- again, this step matters.
  21. With the temperature having been reached, check the oil overflow again. Then, using the funnel, refill ATF until it begins to drain out of the hole in the drain plug.
    • It didn't take adding much for me at this stage -- I added another 1/8 quart and ended up watching oil drain for a while.
    • Next time I'm probably going to just finish using the 3rd quart to help flush old oil out. Given that one doesn't want to overfill a transmission in general, I would (again) say to be sure to add at a slow pace vs "just dumping the rest in." May or may not matter, but why take an unnecessary chance?
  22. Once the overflow has slowed to a point where it is clearly "just a drip," you can reasonably expect to refit the overflow plug without fighting a lot of fluid. Refit it and torque to spec (8 Nm). Be as neat about this as you can, wipe the drain and overflow plugs down as you work.
  23. Now that the drain-side plugs are all in place, nothing else is coming out of the transmission. Go ahead and turn off the car.
  24. Refit the fill plug and torque to spec (45 Nm).
  25. Put the rest of the car back together.
  26. Clear fault codes (you're going to have at least one stored in there if you had the MAF disconnected while the car was running).
Shifting seems a little smoother, but not as much as an improvement as when I did the first change just under 15K miles ago (also removing just under 3 quarts of ATF). No surprise about this as that first change was at over the 100K mile mark.
 

Last edited by cjv2; 12-13-2023 at 10:40 AM.
  #105  
Old 12-13-2023, 09:52 AM
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^^ thanks for this, lots of good info.
 
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