Man, things were actually starting to be productive here, too...

 

Ok, here's a discussion (with pictures) about killing the bong on a 2007 BMW 530i...

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=169033

The guy says the jumper he added gets rid of the chime, but that a warning flag was triggered in iDrive.
He theorizes that the warning was probably due to him unplugging other wires, then starting up the car. Others theorize that it is probably due to his jumper. It doesn't look like anyone's actually explored the issue in an attempt to resolve... but nobody seems to argue that the audible chime stops.

Not sure how close all that is to the MINI situation, but being a BMW seat belt chime from a relatively-recent model, I'm sure it's the closest thing we've got yet in the realm of related information.

Edit: I'd like to add that it's not clear what the two signals being jumpered together are, or what the circuit really looks like to begin with. I think it's just an interesting bit of info on a similar effort someone else did a while back on another BMW product, and it may or may not prove useful for the MINI.

 

sorry, i stopped reading after it was a ***** fest.

 

hey moderator, is there a way we can remove all the completely off topic and pointless posts in this thread?

 

Given enough development, I think the off topic and pointless posts will get lost in the early pages that nobody really looks at with multi-page threads.

 

Check out the last article at this link which talks about Hall sensors being used in seat belt latches.

http://www.powersystemsdesign.com/automotive_2_0905.pdf

 

After reading this article is seems to me ot say that the belt buckle must be made of ferous material. And that incorrect items (toys, lolipops, etc) placed in the buckle receptacle should cause a false reading.

"... seat-belt buckle switches operate using a vane interrupt concept. In this case the buckle, made of a ferrous material, is responsible for interrupting the magnetic field between a magnet
and the Hall-effect device."

"...The conditions that must not cause false switching of the Hall sensor are as follows: Normal buckled position with the tongue in
place, normal unbuckled position with the tongue removed, over-travel of the tongue when pushed in and held by a
person sitting on it or a child seat resting on the buckle assembly, false latch condition when something other than the
actual tongue is pushed in, holding the buckle in a falsely latched condition (lollipopstick, toy etc.)."

So i fashioned a plastic seat belt buckle and found that if placed in the buckle receptacle that it did the same thing as the metal buckle, turned off the gong.

I then took on plastic knife and tried using that and it would not work to shut off the gong.

I then tried two plastic knives and it did turn off the gong. Of course they had to be in exactly the correct position.

So from this i theorize that the Mini Hall Effect switch is not as sophisticated as it could be but is not just a regular open or closed circuit. The later being if it was some or what other people have tried (shorting the two wires together, or leaving them undone) would have worked.

So there is still hope for a fix but until the weather turns warmer I personally will not be able to work on it.

 

I just received the lates wiring diagrams and schematics. There is now a discrepancy in the way Mini states the seatbelt latch condition works.

In one place they state

Belt buckle switch

The belt buckle switches indicate whether the seat belts have been fastened or not. The belt buckle switches are supplied with voltage by the MRS control module. The current consumption of the switch is the signal for the switch position (seat belt fastened or not fastened). The belt buckle switches are monitored permanently as of terminal R On.

• Belt buckle switch for driver belt and passenger belt
  The signal of the belt buckle switch decides whether the seat belt tensioner is activated if required or not.

Yet in another place they state

Belt buckle switch

The belt buckle switches indicate whether the seat belts have been fastened or not. The belt buckle switches are supplied with clocked voltage by the airbag control module. The following shows the voltage curve that is measured at the airbag control module when the voltage curve is OK. For the voltage measurement, the adapter lead must not be connected to the seat belt buckle switch!


So even Mini Contradicts itself on how teh seat belt latch function works.

I am still working on this. It is supposed to be nice weather out this weekend so hopefully i will get a chance to work on this and figure out what Mini/BMW is doing.

 

Well, I for one certainly appreciate your determination and efforts on this, hope it warms up soon for you!

In the mean time I just try to remember to insert my seatbelt before starting the car, that way I avoid the boops.......

 

Those two explanations don't sound mutually-exclusive.
I don't see the contradiction.

 

The problem here is that one place it states the computer outputs a clocked voltage and antoher it states that the computer is outputing a voltage that will have a change in current for measurement by the computer.

Althought this is slightly possible it is not practicle for the computer to work this way and collect both signals.

From the schemtics one side of the buckle switch is connected to ground and the other is connected to the computer. So it is more likely that the computer only measures one type of signal. if it was to measure both type of signals most likely they would have two connections to the computer.

 

Still not convinced...

A voltage, clocked or not, is still a voltage, so I think one saying "clocked voltage" is just one being more precise.

As for one saying a voltage is measured and one saying that a change in current consumption is measured; that sounds like the same thing as well. A change in current through the switch is a change in load impedance. Give the supply some known output impedance, then just read the voltage resulting from the divider between the output imp. and the load imp. ... that tells you if there's a change in current through the switch. Measuring a voltage to determine a change in current (or load impedance) is pretty standard. And as a bonus, it wouldn't require any more than one wire... though they likely use two, one as a return line so they aren't dumping current way out at the seats and to give more accurate measurements.

 

Except that clocking the voltage makes it a digital signal and measuring the current of a digital clock signal is NOT done. Digital electronics of that kind will change the clock pulse in one of three ways, 1. vary the duration of the 5VDC pulse or 2. vary the duration of the 0 VDC pulse, 3. change both parts for the pulse.

From measurements today. I see a slight change in the pulse widths but only in the range of 1 millisecond on the five volt part of the pulse. The only testing i got done today due to an unfortunate emergency was parked checks. From the schematics there is a change in operation after the car has been driven 200 meters. So that will be the next set of tests that need to be conducted.

 

Has anyone attempted to find the actual buzzer module? On my Tacoma, it is a small, easily removed component on the back of the dashboard circuit board. Many folks remove it while making other mods, such as swapping dash LED illumination or changing out gauge backgrounds.

 

You have not read all of this thread if you still think it is a module that can be removed.

It is part of the computer system and the tone is generated with in the radio system and comes out of the speakers.

I have currently about 45 hours in to trying to get a resolution to this but still have not come up with any thing better than hacking the computer programing.

 

So I know this is a really old thread that appears to have gone off topic 600 times, but wouldn't it just be easier to go to a salvage yard, have them get you a seatbelt buckle, cut off the belt and plug the empty buckle into the reciever?

 

Wearing the seatbelt is the law. Talk about not wearing it and discussion of how to fool the system to get out of wearing it is against NAM rules.

 

About 200 of those 600 times was that very suggestion.

I'm not picking on you, but addressing everyone when I say this...
If this thread is going to be revived (once again), I would urge everyone to read what has already been posted by others. The thread keeps going around and around in the same circles, and repeating that cycle yet again is pointless.

 

Well, since the thread has been revived, I'll add that our 2006 Cooper does not operate like this. There is a distinct tone which comes from a point source in the radio area and not from the speakers.

 

OK so that's fantastic but seriously, this whole thread is about breaking the seatbelt law. Keeping that in mind if the moderators really thought it was that big of a deal then this whole thread should have been locked/deleted a long time ago.

Fishbert - Apparently it's against the rules to talk about it anyway so the whole thread should probably just die. I didn't feel like reading through 70 some pages and thought I'd throw in my 2 cents at the end which apparently is the same as everyone else's 2 cents.

 

And an 2006 is a Gen 1 Car not a Gen 2 car and this is a Gen 2 Section and Thread all Gen 2 car will be the way i described.

Of course Gen 1 cars are different.

 

Except in a couple of states it is NOT mandatory (only suggested) to wear a seatbelt so in reality it is only illeagal to talk about it if you are in a state where seatbelt usage is mandatory.

As for an update. I still ahve found no way around the belt buckel issue without hacking the programing in the main computer. THere are jsut to many different items in the system to be able to make sonething up for all of them.

 

It looks to me that the MRS is sending a clocked voltage out to the seat belt switch and then monitoring the other side of the seat belt switch.



It looks like the clock leaves the MRS and goes through the comb connector then to each individual seat belt. The seat belt switch then most likely either passes or does not pass on the clocked signal back to the MRS.

Has anyone tried simply jumping the wires across the seat belt switch?

 

The only state that has no law concerning the use of seat belts for the driver is New Hampshire.

 

Yes, There is actually a Hall Sensor in the buckle that changes the pulse. Resistors, shorting, opening have all been tried.