Drivetrain M62 SC on the MINI is reality
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6th Gear
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Originally Posted by RECOOP
"...200 whp out of the Mini engine with the stock M45 blower is extremely difficult. I was indignant with Eric at Helix who said the dyno is "free" to anyone who can make or break 200 whp without a turbo (or nitrous) Eric was right (damn it) ..."
There have been quite a few cars that achieved the >200 whp mark without a turbo and twin-charged set up. Yes, they may be fairly modified, but the whp levels were quite real. I do believe there are a number of posts on NAM dealing with this. Yes, the contribution of the various mods is indeed not additive; but this has been a topic of extensive discussion on NAM and elsewhere.
BTW, my last dyno yielded 225 whp (@255 at the crank, assuming a 12% drivetrain loss), and while the car is highly modified, it is sans turbo or t/c. Also, I believe that Randy Webb's mule was in that range before he went the t/c route. After the exhaust system for my Mini is finalized and after a few more tweaks, including re-tuning the ECU, I'll get some more dyno data and post them here.
With all that said, the M62 supercharger route is indeed very attractive, and may be an important performance modification for the "powermongers"...
There have been quite a few cars that achieved the >200 whp mark without a turbo and twin-charged set up. Yes, they may be fairly modified, but the whp levels were quite real. I do believe there are a number of posts on NAM dealing with this. Yes, the contribution of the various mods is indeed not additive; but this has been a topic of extensive discussion on NAM and elsewhere.
BTW, my last dyno yielded 225 whp (@255 at the crank, assuming a 12% drivetrain loss), and while the car is highly modified, it is sans turbo or t/c. Also, I believe that Randy Webb's mule was in that range before he went the t/c route. After the exhaust system for my Mini is finalized and after a few more tweaks, including re-tuning the ECU, I'll get some more dyno data and post them here.
With all that said, the M62 supercharger route is indeed very attractive, and may be an important performance modification for the "powermongers"...
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Originally Posted by mini-c
Spider X
Can we please define serious coin? That is quite the open ended statement. Please clarify. Thanks
Can we please define serious coin? That is quite the open ended statement. Please clarify. Thanks
Anyway to try and stay on topic..... the 62 will most likely sell for $3-3.5K + 3-4 hrs labor and on a stock car will give you about 40 whp.....+ a bunch of torque (no public documents yet but these are the prelim numbers,.... numbers will be published)
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Originally Posted by SpiderX
Well the term "serious coin" was Peter's but if you look at my sig you can add it up and don't forget 15 trips to the dyno and the trips out of town for custom tuning..... I figure I have over $20K worth of mods in my car....which is nothing for the P'car or the BMW guys but in Mini world it is pretty serious.
I have seen a car in LA that made 230whp with only $6000 worth of mods. He said they will be selling the kits in the next month or so. Imagine what it would do with the M62 supercharger?
225 whp ? without re-boosting?
Please PM me or just post here on what you have done to achieve this.
As far as the Webb mini goes, it is my understanding that he was nowhere near those numbers.
Please PM me or just post here on what you have done to achieve this.
As far as the Webb mini goes, it is my understanding that he was nowhere near those numbers.
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Originally Posted by mini-c
This is NOT meant as a slam but is there a mod you don't like?
I have seen a car in LA that made 230whp with only $6000 worth of mods. He said they will be selling the kits in the next month or so. Imagine what it would do with the M62 supercharger?
I have seen a car in LA that made 230whp with only $6000 worth of mods. He said they will be selling the kits in the next month or so. Imagine what it would do with the M62 supercharger?
The 62 should improve any of your existing mods..... but this so far is unproven on th Mini..... I am excited because tomorrow the kit is on it's way back to Greenville and hopefully by Wednsday it will be on and Thursday I can drive my car
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Originally Posted by onasled
225 whp ? without re-boosting?
Please PM me or just post here on what you have done to achieve this.
As far as the Webb mini goes, it is my understanding that he was nowhere hear those numbers.
Please PM me or just post here on what you have done to achieve this.
As far as the Webb mini goes, it is my understanding that he was nowhere hear those numbers.
You are much more direct than I am but I am with you brother.....
Bob
Originally Posted by mini-c
This is NOT meant as a slam but is there a mod you don't like?
I have seen a car in LA that made 230whp with only $6000 worth of mods. He said they will be selling the kits in the next month or so. Imagine what it would do with the M62 supercharger?
I have seen a car in LA that made 230whp with only $6000 worth of mods. He said they will be selling the kits in the next month or so. Imagine what it would do with the M62 supercharger?
I truly do not believe this. Are you saying 230 whp without a re-boost?
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Originally Posted by onasled
Who, and what?
I truely do not believe this. Are you saying 230 whp without a re-boost?
I truely do not believe this. Are you saying 230 whp without a re-boost?
The car had these mods
ported head, big valves
schrick cam
CAI
Gintani water to air intercooler
Borla exhaust
Mini Madness header (made less horsepower than claimed)
custom software tune
Forgot the 15% pulley!
Originally Posted by mini-c
Yes, stock M45 supercharger.
The car had these mods
ported head, big valves
schrick cam
CAI
Gintani water to air intercooler
Borla exhaust
Mini Madness header (made less horsepower than claimed)
custom software tune
Forgot the 15% pulley!
The car had these mods
ported head, big valves
schrick cam
CAI
Gintani water to air intercooler
Borla exhaust
Mini Madness header (made less horsepower than claimed)
custom software tune
Forgot the 15% pulley!
Mini-c. I don't mean to assume here and certainly don't mean put you down. You do seem to be new to minis? Don't let people with these numbers fool you. As I said, the ECU is an unknown here, but with the mods listed you might be happy with around 190 whp. No way 230 with those mods, no way.
I correct this Mini-c as I see you have been here on NAM for about 3 years. I would hope then that you might know better.
Originally Posted by mini-c
Don't shoot the messenger
The ECU tune is the key with those parts. It will be for sale shortly from what I was told by the tuner. They are real whether you believe it or not.
The ECU tune is the key with those parts. It will be for sale shortly from what I was told by the tuner. They are real whether you believe it or not.
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Originally Posted by onasled
And that would be El, right? This should be interesting to say the least.
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From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
My old car made 236 whp with a very similar set of mods (Mini Madness Stage 4 kit + a Twin Sequential Exhaust). If you run a search for some of my old posts you can find some dyno's. I'm not sure where my copies are or I'd repost them.
Originally Posted by onasled
The only unknown here is the ECU tune.
Mini-c. I don't mean to assume here and certainly don't mean put you down. You do seem to be new to minis? Don't let people with these numbers fool you. As I said, the ECU is an unknown here, but with the mods listed you might be happy with around 190 whp. No way 230 with those mods, no way.
I correct this Mini-c as I see you have been here on NAM for about 3 years. I would hope then that you might know better.
Mini-c. I don't mean to assume here and certainly don't mean put you down. You do seem to be new to minis? Don't let people with these numbers fool you. As I said, the ECU is an unknown here, but with the mods listed you might be happy with around 190 whp. No way 230 with those mods, no way.
I correct this Mini-c as I see you have been here on NAM for about 3 years. I would hope then that you might know better.
Originally Posted by rustyboy155
My old car made 236 whp with a very similar set of mods (Mini Madness Stage 4 kit + a Twin Sequential Exhaust). If you run a search for some of my old posts you can find some dyno's. I'm not sure where my copies are or I'd repost them.
That's OK, ... 236whp it is then. Congrats
230whp is totally do-able and almost expected if you have a ported head/cam combo, along with the basic mods (pulley, exhaust, cai, header).
I was at 193 with just a 15%, one-ball, and cai! That was on a dynodynamics dyno too, which is known to be the most conservative and accurate dynos available. I recently added a header and software, and am definitely over 200whp. Going to dyno next week to see for sure.
I was at 193 with just a 15%, one-ball, and cai! That was on a dynodynamics dyno too, which is known to be the most conservative and accurate dynos available. I recently added a header and software, and am definitely over 200whp. Going to dyno next week to see for sure.
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From: Middletown, RI USA
Please everyone just post "at the wheels" hp. What comes to mind is Yarrow spraying nitrus on Ian's JCW's intercooler trying to get the hp up to JCW's spec. Anyone have a pic of that!!!! To be honest, he was running less than 93 octane. We all had a fun dyno day (2 years ago). I guess the dyno's around hear just read low.
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I think it's a universal truth that the ecu programming represents a tremendous untapped area for improving the MINI's performance. If indeed there's something on the horizon that finally offers the MINI market some serious tunability, I'm all for it! Tell us more!
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I have every mod I can think of from highly reputable vendors..... the highly touted "highest flowing" head....etc ad nauseum......plus a Unichip with a factory specialist (Josh Murray) custom on road and dyno tuned and I got to tell you I don't make 230whp.....Eric at Helix has almost never seen it and Peter at M7 has rarely or never seen it as well as Randy Webb confided that he has not seen it consistently.......(I'm talking over 200 whp without TC....... Onasled, who if you look at his car has spent more money and seems to have the handle on things of this nature is to say the least dubious........the only shop that makes this claim has something to do with "Mini Madness" parts. I am not refuteing it but they must have the "special sauce" phenomenom..... I am asking for a seperate thread here..... this has been beaten up a lot in the past and with the 62 almost out I want to focus on that.... dynos will be posted...
Regardless, the addition of the 62 kit should help any existing mod
I have started a new thread that is already pretty active..." is 225-230 whp possible without TC?"
Regardless, the addition of the 62 kit should help any existing mod
I have started a new thread that is already pretty active..." is 225-230 whp possible without TC?"
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From: NY NY
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From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
Tracked down a copy of my final dyno results from back last year.
From what I can tell, baseline dyno results are varying greatly. I've seen anything from 135 whp stock to 160 whp stock. 25 HP variance is huge! I can only assume that some of these cars are more receptive to mods than others :-\.
If you're not sure what a Mini Madness Stage 4 kit includes, check my gallery. The car also had a custom fabricated exhaust, which although I don't know much about it, it was ridiculously loud, and the tuning shop managed to get quite a bit of HP out of the engine just with the exhaust.
From what I can tell, baseline dyno results are varying greatly. I've seen anything from 135 whp stock to 160 whp stock. 25 HP variance is huge! I can only assume that some of these cars are more receptive to mods than others :-\.
If you're not sure what a Mini Madness Stage 4 kit includes, check my gallery. The car also had a custom fabricated exhaust, which although I don't know much about it, it was ridiculously loud, and the tuning shop managed to get quite a bit of HP out of the engine just with the exhaust.
