Drivetrain (Cooper S) MINI Cooper S (R53) intakes, exhausts, pulleys, headers, throttle bodies, and any other modifications to the Cooper S drivetrain.

Drivetrain Stock LSD and aftermarket LSD problems?

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Old Sep 19, 2009 | 05:05 PM
  #51  
MaitlandImports's Avatar
MaitlandImports
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Originally Posted by Alan
I'm with you on the stiffen the rear. I've always viewed softening the front / stiffening the rear as interchangeable given all the suspension geometry issues you mention. It is indeed a science, unless you don't have the telemetry, then its an art. Its really a CG discussion and I can't tell the difference between the two when changing shock settings.

Here's the thinking / DE experience on the diff. Its basically the 100% work for a tire discussion. A tire can do 100% work of; turn the car / stop the car / accelerate the car. At corner exit with a LSD both tires are trying to turn and accelerate the car. With an open diff the loaded tire gets its acceleration work load taken away leaving more work for turning. Thus the tire with the most grip is basically devoted to turning the car. But the total work that both tires can do is reduced. This helps the car turn, but it suffers from lack of acceleration. I have seen this many times with a buddy of mine at the track that runs an open diff. So, as mentioned above after adding the diff I have learned to brake and apex a tad later to be able to get to the gas sooner. And the car is set stiffer at the rear and softer at the front so the car rotates - like you better be going to throttle at turn-in or your going around. The old loose is fast.

Alan

I think your corner exit understeer with a diff is the quaife. I did not experience that at all going with the Giken but have felt that after driving vince's quaife equipped car.
 
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Old Sep 20, 2009 | 11:18 AM
  #52  
XPGT2's Avatar
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Street/AutoX Torque Biasing will work until you lift a drive wheel off the ground and then game over.
Track=Clutch type LSD

The nice thing about the OSgiken, I have it in my S2000 and GT2, is it is a very progressive lockup on acceleration. Rear Wheel drive also benefits from a locking LSD under braking to keep the back end from being twitchy.

Peter
 
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Old Sep 20, 2009 | 12:33 PM
  #53  
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Alan
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Originally Posted by MaitlandImports
I think your corner exit understeer with a diff is the quaife. I did not experience that at all going with the Giken but have felt that after driving vince's quaife equipped car.

uhhh Either I'm not explaining things very well (definitely possible), or you are stuck in sales mode.

LSDs do one thing, which is provide power to the wheel with the least amount of grip. There are basically two ways of doing this.

LSDs can be designed to have a wide range of coupling characteristics.

If you add a LSD to your car you drastically change the coupling characteristic of your front wheels. You will need to adapt your suspension set-up / driving style to accommodate this fact.

LSDs with different coupling characteristics will require different suspension setups / driving styles.

Alan
 
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Old Sep 20, 2009 | 01:12 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by XPGT2
Street/AutoX Torque Biasing will work until you lift a drive wheel off the ground and then game over.
Track=Clutch type LSD

The nice thing about the OSgiken, I have it in my S2000 and GT2, is it is a very progressive lockup on acceleration. Rear Wheel drive also benefits from a locking LSD under braking to keep the back end from being twitchy.

Peter
Quite true, but highly improbably for more than a moment. Otherwise you have serious set-up issues. I have unweighted both front wheels at times. You ever been to LRP?

Alan
 

Last edited by Alan; Sep 21, 2009 at 06:41 AM.
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Old Sep 22, 2009 | 08:11 AM
  #55  
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MaitlandImports
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Originally Posted by Alan
uhhh Either I'm not explaining things very well (definitely possible), or you are stuck in sales mode.

LSDs do one thing, which is provide power to the wheel with the least amount of grip. There are basically two ways of doing this.

LSDs can be designed to have a wide range of coupling characteristics.

If you add a LSD to your car you drastically change the coupling characteristic of your front wheels. You will need to adapt your suspension set-up / driving style to accommodate this fact.

LSDs with different coupling characteristics will require different suspension setups / driving styles.

Alan
Alan, not in sales mode at all. And really truly before this debated moves on you need to drive one with this LSD. You'll see what I'm talking about. I understand where your coming from because I've driven cars with quaifes and the stock gear type diff. The way those lock up they immediately initiate a push in the vehicle, thus you need to change your line to accomidate the push. As with any front wheel drive vehicle it will push with throttle. You simply can't change physics. But with the Giken (and I haven't driven a cusco) it minimizes it beyond logic. I really need to try a Cusco car to see the difference.
 
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