God forbid that Cosworth would ever add their badge to something that doesn't perform. Anybody remember the Cosworth Vega?

Joe L.

 

Untapped, I'd say yes, but big...? If based upon inquiries, such as phone calls & emails to tuners such as M7 and Webb Motorsports, I'd say no. From my recollection (I keep-in touch with Peter and Randy fairly well) over 90% of their communications are regarding the S. And given that being a MINI Cooper S tuner is not exactly easy money, the further investment of time & money in even a smaller market (Cooper), is not very appealing...

I believe more S's are sold in the US compared to the Cooper; and I think by a 3:2 ratio (6 of 10). And it's probably a pretty safe assumption to make that a higher pecentage of those S owners are more geared to the performance attributes of the car. When talking about the MINI, we're talking fairly limited production numbers in the whole scheme of things, when compared to other makes/models. All of these are factors that come into play when making business decisions, such as ROI prognostications...

This has a lot to do as to why there are not as many Cooper aftermkt performance goodies as the S.

 

this is still unnaceptable.

what about the rest of the world?

are they not important enuff either?

sorry to say, but Cooper owners are second class citizens in tuner world dominated by MCS's.

 

I have the Cosworth stage car and it is unreal The car just pull hard and quick with all gears Watch out EVOs and STIs.

 

I will second that, very quick.

The guy that sits next to me at work has a brand new STI with exhaust and intake mods. After being embarrassed by my Cosworth car on several occasions, his STI is now being fitted with a $5000 turbo upgrade.

Edit: I just talked to my friend and it is now a $10,000 upgrade.
And we thought modifying our MINIs was expensive !!!!!

We will see if he can keep up now. With 350 WHP now he shouldn't have any problem.

Bill

 

What more could you possibly expect? You bought the car that delivers LESS horsepower. The probability that an MC owner wants mods is much less than the owner of the MCS who is striving for a fast car and obtains it by shelling out a little more money for the SC. I'm not saying there arent MC owners who want more go, but i bet if you took a poll....the difference would be GIGANTIC.

Secondly, exactly what parts for the cooper do you want that you cant currently get? Besides a turbo there is tons of stuff for the MC. Intake, Exhaust, ECU, Camshaft, Head, Header, Throttle body, and you could get it all ported and polished by some company. What are you missing that makes you feel second class? I certainly hope you dont want SC pullies for your MC And thats just engine mods.....you are missing all of the brake and suspension mods, not to mention weight savings mods (play on the MC's lower weight).

The rest of the world is of course important, but if you expect smaller companies like M7 or Webbmotorsports to start international buisness you are being unreasonable. These two tuners work like crazy to bring their products the people on this side of the pond. They are not a huge company like HKS or Hamann that are able to run a full fledge international buisness. And in case you were unaware, Alta and some M7 products are carried in places as far away as Japan. So not caring about the rest of the world isnt a problem either.

You dont have a basis to say "This is unacceptable". Sorry for my rant, but you constantly throwing in "what about us cooper owners" in every thread is getting a bit old. There is lots of stuff out there that you havent even looked into. And before MC owners jump on me...im an MC owner too, i just dont think that the tuners are doing anything wrong by supplying us with way more than enough mods for our little car. Supply and demand, its as simple as that

 

Part of the reason I chose an S was a guess that this might be the case... Anyone that plans to mod their cars really should try to forecast what the mod'ing mkt will be like...

And S owners don't have the quantity of options as do many Honda, GM or Dodge guys. Heck, even the new Ford Mustang is getting a butt-load of goodies, and fast, and relatively cheap. Some might not see this as fair, or they will view it as unacceptable... It's just the reality of supply and demand...

I don't find it unacceptable simply because I totally understand the dynamics involved that make for this reality. But, I also don't just "accept" it either. I support our vendors whenever I can, and when I come to realize that something I want is not going be available, or might not any time soon, I fab something myself (straight exit exhaust system or rear seat delete deck). It was my decision to get this car (and no regrets whatsoever!), and the onus is then upon me to make it what I want...

Folks buy the MINI for many reasons for sure. It's cool and unique looks are factors for quite a few of us. So is its relatively good gas mileage. Likewise, it's safety and crash test data awards lure interest. Also, it's price at sub $20k for a solid little car... The vast majority of people who have approached me on my car in 3 years of ownership have mentioned those attributes. Many who have purchased the MINI, particulary the Cooper, have done so with those wonderful qualities as primary criteria.

I feel compelled to tell folks about its tight chassis and handling characteristics, fun and ease to drive fast. That perception was not there, and generallly remains unknown amongst the masses.

With its limited production, and many owners not geared toward increased performance, tuners will focus on better opportunites, and if they do invest in MINI stuff, the S is bound to make more sense to them as the owners are more apt to want more, and their cars have come from the factory with differences (from the Cooper) to take more...

 

Hi RWC......

The lack of MC parts is unfortunately driven by the want and needs of the
MINI community. And if the calls to us are any indication of the MC want's
there's almost none.... If we got more then 5 calls a week for MC parts
we would certainly consider making MC only parts.

With that said, we do make a throttle body upgrade that actually gives
better results then the "S" TB upgrade, and at $349 a fabulous upgrade.

But the bottom line is.......if you don't call, it ain't going to happen.

peter
Team M7
562-608-8123

 

Unacceptable??
Then go create a business plan, present it to Webb, M7, Helix, etc. and show them how much money they'll make. And be prepared to front some money to back up your plan, then take a healthy cut. Better yet, hire a designer and create and market your own Cooper accessory line.
Alternatively, there are overseas tuners (who also focus on the S) - but keep your wallet out.

 

Hey Peter,
How involved is the MC Throttle Body upgrade?? Is that a DIY thing??
$349 is a great upgrade.

Richard

 

I've read this entire thread and must tell you, rednwhitecooper, you need some therapy. To not take ten minutes out of your day to call Peter at m7 and have a fruitful discussion about the cars he so passionately loves is, honestly, ignorant. I've learned more from this guy in 30 minutes on the phone than hours in a shop, or from my shop manual. Unless you are going to take the time to be professional and learn from others' experiences don't razz them on this board and don't expect them to call you...matter of fact, let's be simple about it- don't razz them at all.

It's simple, basic high school stuff...supply and demand drive shifts in technology. Fixed allocation to US dealerships regardless of model (supply) + More MCS sold in the US than MC (high demand) = more technology advancement for the MCS than for the MC. Liken it to a Macintosh, why would anyone create a virus designed for 5% of the computer population when they can design one that will impact 95% of the market. Makes no sense. Same logic applies to the aftermarket tuning world...not that folks aren't interested in tuning MC, but they have a business to run- profitably.

I seriously hope you will call Peter because your comments on this thread are killing me.

 

Peter, please show us the dyno of this TB that you speak of. I am sure it is just hype like the S TB that you bragges so much about. The S throttle body made a whopping 2hp. Do you dare to tell how much this one will make?


]Hi RWC......

The lack of MC parts is unfortunately driven by the want and needs of the
MINI community. And if the calls to us are any indication of the MC want's
there's almost none.... If we got more then 5 calls a week for MC parts
we would certainly consider making MC only parts.

With that said, we do make a throttle body upgrade that actually gives
better results then the "S" TB upgrade, and at $349 a fabulous upgrade.

But the bottom line is.......if you don't call, it ain't going to happen.

peter
Team M7
562-608-8123[/QUOTE]

 

If you are getting a Throttle body for just HP, you are in a bit of trouble. Not just because you wont find it in a throttle body, but because you obviously dont understand what modding a throttle body is supposed to do for your car. You dont mod your TB to gain more HP....you mod it for throttle response.

Try researching engine performance before you attempt to bash him on something you dont even know about.

 

Richard, i think that the TB would easily be a DIY for you. It will require you to remove your intake (you have an aftermarket one right? So you have done it before?). Then you simply undo the stock TB send that to peter, and put on the new one along with your intake.

The main "problem i would forsee is space confinement (small hands would be better), but there are no skill-related difficulties.

 

shouldn't take more than an hour for an inexperienced DIY-er. if you know your way around the engine bay you should be able to do it on less than 30 minutes. do a search using the toolbar and you'll find good instructions...

 

Agreed. It's an easy DIY. In fact, for my S [only worked on an S TB job, mind you], I wouldn't even say that your hands need to be that small! Once you remove the intake plumbing and little snorkel, you can get both down there with room to spare. You remove the old [held on by screws], screw down the new, and plug in the new sensor wires. I really like my M7 TB.

 

Noticed you have it installed in your car. You didnt notice a big drop in MPG did you?

And how are you liking the added noise? I have heard mixed feelings about the higher pitched noise.

 

i experienced very little added noise, and what little bit i did get was not overstated, but rather music to my ears (i personally enjoy hearing the whine of the supercharger). if you like the sound of your CAI then you'll love the sound it makes with the TB. from a mpg perspective i really haven't paid much attention. i am one of those folks that feels a better driving experience is worth the extra petrol, regardless of the cost. weird, i know. the only problem i've had is that new TBs for '05 models tend to be a bit tricky and may require a few tries to get right. this is a result of some unknown changes BMW made between the pre-05 and the 05 model. these things are simple, but complex. know what i mean, vern?

 

[QUOTE=dapickler]Peter, please show us the dyno of this TB that you speak of. I am sure it is just hype like the S TB that you bragges so much about. The S throttle body made a whopping 2hp. Do you dare to tell how much this one will make?


Here we go again....

And thank you for asking. And just so you know we never "Bragges"
about our TB, or told anyone that it's a magic bullet, or that it gives
tremendous amount of hp. As a matter of fact I just wrote that the effect of the MC TB was better then the "S" TB. No "Bragges" just facts.

As for hp expect 4-6hp depending on state of tune, the other impressive
fact, is that the throttle response is greatly improved.

I stepped out to the shop to take an image of the MC TB so you know it's
not vapor ware.....

And as always please call me with any questions.

Peter
Team M7
562-608-8123

 

1. I have yet to see ANY effort from any company to get an intake up and running for any of the 05's. I dont want a filter if it rubs, i dont want to have to modify or adapt anything. it would just be able to drop int w/o having to modify it.

2. How come it seems MC parts are so readily avaliable in other parts of the world? Seems like in every issue of GOMini there are plenty of modified MC's.

 

now, $349, is that before or after the core charge is attached?

I'm still interested in alot of the Cooper/MCS interchangable parts, money is just a factor right now, i dont have much of it.

How about some ECU tuning besides MTH or the other ones that requre the computer to be shipped away for 6-10 buisness day? I dont have a problem with anyone using MTH, but i refuse to send paypal to someone thousands of miles away to buy something that only exists in a virtual world (IE a program and a file to upload to my car)

I'm not M7 bashing or Webb bashing as it usually gets percieved as any time i open my mouth in any thread that concerns M7 or Webb, so i dont know why it seems people always take it that way.

On another note, someone mentioned why dont I just start marketing my own Cooper parts?

To let you know, i have been working on a new intake that it seems the rest of the tuning world seems to see and completely unimportant. I have a good working 02-05 MC (yes its made to fit ALL years, unlike the rest of them) finished, i just dont have the resources to make many more than 3 at a time.

 

If you wan't one, all you have to do is to call, I will send you the TB, you send back the core...... That's it + $349

Why don't you call me and we we can chat about MC parts:smile:

peter
Team M7
562-608-8123

 

It sounds like a plan to me. I would really like to give you a call her early next week, i have some school crap that kinda gets in the way now!

I'll try and set some time aside so i can just sit down and talk for a while.

 

M7=

 

ECU- how about unichip ?

and like many people have said, a K&N filter will fit no problem.