I started this thread under "Hesco" but this headline is more to the point.

I dyno'd my car last Thursday at the same dyno that I went to before adding header, head/cam, Miltek cat back (removed Borla) 19% and 380 injectors. The car "butt" dynoed very well but the real dyno says different. The purpose of writting this is to say that the dyno is the only place to tell if you are adding power after mods. At least my "butt" dyno is not very accurate. I am not posting the results yet because they are embarrasing. I do have a custom tune set for next Thursday in which I hope to get appropriate power out of my investment.

For better or worse I will post after Thursday's "tune"

 

In following your mods, I would suspect that anything over 220 at the wheels is getting there. I would be quite happy with 230.

In comparison, how was the climate different from before? Same time of year, temp, humidity? Was the car completely cooled down?

 

Very good points, temp, humidity density altitude can play huge differences in results.

Also it has been my experience that the Butt dyno senses not only total power but power under the curve...What I'm referring to is that maybe your peak numbers weren't what you expected but look at the total curve compared to the last one. is it flatter? Did you pick up power in the lower rpm range etc. Do the same for the torque curve. Remember torque is the key, if you picke up torque under the curve at lower rpms you'll feel like more power. In motors that have lots of hp but only get their torque at high rpms, your butt won't feel much unless your on the "pipe"...Just my 2cents.

Also I've known many people who've lost "power" adding mods to their car. Each motor and combination is different. I've known guys who had identical cars and got different results with the same mods. Experimentation and testing with each one is the only way to tell. Wish the news was better but that's the way it is. I had similar experiences with my drag car.
Wayne

 

Trust me I would be thrilled with those numbers. I'm not even close .

The climate was similar if not cooler.

The car is running too lean and the A/F is erratic. There is a whole lot of untapped power that I hope to tap.

Bolting on mods is more than just bolting on mods as I am learning. (I hear laughter from NJ, PA, and SOCAL to name a few).

The only thing that is a hassle Is driving 2.5-3 hrs to get the "tune" done.

 

and NY, hee, hee!

the mods can pay off, but you need to synch them in. A/F is key.

 

Actually, I was thinking of you when I wrote NJ (no slam intented)

 

I actually lost torque at all but 5-6K. I gained in peak power above 6K but the mid range sucks, ie. no real improvement. Looking at the A/F it is all over the board. It doesn't dip below 13.5 until 4K drops to a low of 12.5 at 5.2K and then spikes up to 13.4 at 6k.....what a mess.

I will not tell you the peak power yet but I can tell you it is up but not nearly enough.

The car is running way too lean down low (14.9) to develop any anything.

 

I wouldn't say 12.5 to 13.5 above 4k is a disaster. It's more lean than is best for a boosted engine. 11.0-12.0 would be more appropriate, however your tuner should be measuring Exhaust Gas Temps while tuning to ensure he's dialing in the right A/F ratios.

You've been having problems with your car the whole way. You need a competent tuner that knows your car and can get it to the best it can be. Furthermore, I hope you're not expecting miracles. The car has a decent engine management system, though it's not state of the art, so don't ever expect perfect drivability, especially with the jumble of aftermarket parts. The more you add to the engine, the more time and effort that you need to take to sort it out to get the A/F, drivability, idle, cold start, and high load appropriate.

Also, I hope you or your dyno operator are keeping tabs on the conditions when you're doing dyno runs. ECT, IAT, EGT should all be recorded, and as close to identical on all your runs. Not doing so will not give you an accurate base to measure differences. I can't stress this enough.

Regards,
Ryan

 

you have the Unichip, right? What exactly are you going to adjust when "tuning" or does your tuner have the ability to mod the Unichip map?

 

I can't agree more. My mustang is more modified than my Mini. It was tuned well for North Carolina, but ran like crap in CA. I called around for EFI tuners.... The price wasn't good, but what a difference. Smoother idle, about 10 hp added over the entire curve, and much better A/F ratios. Even though the latest tune is better, I'm still pretty confident there's more in the motor to be had. At least the ping at WOT is gone.....

Matt

 

Bob, I feel your angst, really. I believe that we all see our cars as projects, or works in progress; and we want confirmation that the investment (time as well as money) is heading us in the desired direction...

I have not dyno'd my MCS and for all I know, I too might be dissapointed. I will do so, but only when I'm done with the addition of power-enchancing mods (or at least what should be ). Given your experience, maybe I should get one now though, but I'll remain satisfied with with other indicators, such as those experienced while driving, or data pulled from my CarChip. I have lost weight, and that has been relatively easy to chronicle, thankfully.

I feel that the commentary above (Wayne especially) was very good and helpful. Gosh, if you are running lean, and you are on 380 injectors, mabye going upto 400 might be advisable? And I don't know much about the Dinan intake, but any chance that it's incapable of keeping-up (ie, to restrictive for your set-up)? These are just simpleton thoughts as I looked-over your sig, so please don't take it for anything more than that. Also, if you have not done so, pull your plugs and inspect them. Heck, take photos and share with the class :smile: .

While I would hope to see some improvement after the custom dyno-tune, but with a 19%, and after hearing what Randy has said many times, there is not much wiggle room on the ECU side to tweak things. I think the UNIChip allows for fuel and timing adjustments every 25 RPMs, but I honestly don't remember...

I recall a thread recently where you also had another ECU (GIAC?) along with the UNIChip piggyback. I believe that was probelmatic for you, at least I think that was you... Both Eric at Helix and Randy Webb have put together packages that they have tested and feel confident about. Mixing the the two though can open the door for such possibilities...

I'm going to install 4 control arms now . Best of luck to ya, and keep us posted!

 

from what have seen, you need to carefully monitor some variables while doing the dyno run to maximize performance and check how things are running:

IAT: if it get above 135deg F, the ECU will intervene and reduce power. A single dyno run can easily push IAT above 135, so you need to have a fan blowing on the intercooler and wait between runs, fan going, to start the run at 100deg F or lower.

Water temp: should be no hotter than 215 deg F.

DSC and AC off;

boost: what are you getting for MAP? are there any leaks?

A/F: measured with a wideband sensor preferably right after the CAT, can be done with a tailpipe sniffer, but the readings will be skewed a bit.

plug readings: look for signs of excessive heat or metal deposits

timing: to see if the ECU is messing with it.

EGT: hard to do without a port in the header and comparative data.

 

spider......

would you mind sending me a copy of your dyno in a PM to look at?

thanks

 

SpiderX,

Are you still getting SES lights on your dash and under what conditions do they happen?

Are all diagnostic trouble code problems taken care of? If resolved, how did you fix them? Note that all DTC issues need to be addressed before custom tuning.

Which ECU are you tuning now (for the record).

Good luck.

 

A couple of things,

The fault conditions are gone.

The DSC was NOT turned off (Thanks JLM)

The Tuner in Birmingham Alabama has the Unichip software and can truly "tune" the car. These guys come very highly recomended by "Hornguy," another mod freak from Atlanta.

All GIAC has been removed

The car is running version 40 and is actually running pretty good just not with the power that I have paid for.

There were a couple of large fans running but not specifically into the IC but rather in front of the car.

The Dyno is a Dynapack and the shop is Knowledge performance in Kennesaw GA.

These guys do a lot of tuning for all the Japanese cars (an IS 300 with 400ft lb was on before me) and German cars as well. They came highly recomended by the head of the local SCCA auto X who drives a tricked out STI.

To Ryan, come on down and help me sort this out.

Thanks to all

 

Yes, that is why I m going to Birmingham, AL

 

If I knew how

 

I'm pretty sure that the DSC not being turned off made a huge difference. If the rear wheels aren't turning, but the front wheels are, the DSC and other systems will intervene and your dyno numbers will be off.

I think you should dyno it again without the DSC before you spend any more money on tuning. At least you'll have a more accurate picture of the situation.

 

Now you tell me.....just kidding

 

That is an excellent suggestion but I already have the appointment and I feel like I should go ahead. I think these guys will be able to get, if not the most, certainly as close to the most out of my engine as possible.

They do a lot of racing. In fact, the reason I could not take it this week as the main "tuner" was at the track.

(I hate it when my fantasies get a dose of reality.)

 

The DCS has to be turned off or the car just wont run on a Dyno, I mean it wont! I'm sure it was off or else you wouldn't have even been able to Dyno it.

 

I did not turn it off and these guys don't see Minis so your guess is as good as mine. I really don't know.

 

"Gosh, if you are running lean, and you are on 380 injectors, mabye going upto 400 might be advisable? And I don't know much about the Dinan intake, but any chance that it's incapable of keeping-up (ie, to restrictive for your set-up)?"

Something else to add after reading all the other posts and your replies is fuel flow/press. I believe El Diablito experienced lack of fuel or injector limitations with his twincharged setup and had to make some changes. Its really hard to diagnose or guess with so many mods/changes made without tests in between each one. The flow characteristics, back pressure, fuel delivery have all been affected and how much is anyones guess.
I'm still learning about the MCS and most of my experience came from tuning my Mustang race car but I believe I read somewhere about the limitations of the stock fuel delievery system and that it said you're pretty much maxed out at 380/400 cc inj size. If your A/F ratios are all over the place it could be pretty good indication of fuel press/delivery issues.

If you could post a pic of your dyno run with A/F HP and TQ I'm sure it would help. Are you able to monitor fuel press during your dyno pulls? EGT and IATs are very helpful too. At full boost, I would expect that nominal A/F should be in the 11/12 range for safe power with 13 being the top for pump gas.
Wayne

 

Randy or Ryan could answer this but I think the Unichip has some parameters for A/F ratios. The guys at KNowledgs thought the car needed more fuel.

When i go to Birmingham next week i will take pictures and ask a bunch of questions from these posts.

 

SpiderX,

No hype no BS.
For the last two weeks I have been testing just this. I have been using both a Snap-On scanner and an Innovate AF meter. I have found that the 380cc are very adequate with a 19% pulley and much more.
You as well as many others may be overlooking some very basic factors.
Depending on your needs, an AFC may or may not be the answer.

I have a similar setup. If you would like to PM me maybe I can help.

Dave
Fuel control is my job!
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