Drivetrain Warning!!!! Beware to buyer!!! FAKE ALTA Supercharger Pulleys!!!
5th Gear
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 696
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From: Ohio
I own 5 Alta products. I like the products. I don’t like their implied sentiment.
Alta’s unwillingness to endorse the one vendor who’s come into this thread says more about who is, or is not implied to have misrepresented Alta’s products than all the information in Alta’s posts to this thread combined.
Alta’s unwillingness to endorse the one vendor who’s come into this thread says more about who is, or is not implied to have misrepresented Alta’s products than all the information in Alta’s posts to this thread combined.
5th Gear
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 696
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From: Ohio
I founded a family owned and operated business. We’ve been around over 10 years, and in that time we’ve been screwed-over by knockoffs on several occasions. So I am familiar with issues of this variety and understand what’s at stake.
I’m certain that most of us can appreciate Alta being protective of a product they developed. BUT Alta weren’t first to market or in R&D. P&D was.
For all intents and purposes the Alta pulley performs the same function as the P&D.
As it turned out Alta's product install method suited the market’s sales style better, and so the Alta pulley displaced others like P&D.
And as for marketing the Alta pulley: Alta you rode the Randy Webb train to overnight success against the P&D product. Your pulley and Randy’s marketing via pulley parties and "How To" series on NAM created a paradigm shift.
Well, Alta… unless your design is protected by a patent…. Your turn!
I’m certain that most of us can appreciate Alta being protective of a product they developed. BUT Alta weren’t first to market or in R&D. P&D was.
For all intents and purposes the Alta pulley performs the same function as the P&D.
As it turned out Alta's product install method suited the market’s sales style better, and so the Alta pulley displaced others like P&D.
And as for marketing the Alta pulley: Alta you rode the Randy Webb train to overnight success against the P&D product. Your pulley and Randy’s marketing via pulley parties and "How To" series on NAM created a paradigm shift.
Well, Alta… unless your design is protected by a patent…. Your turn!
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,253
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From: NY NY
someone sent me a knock off of my own P&D taper fit pulley...it was exact to the point that the parts were interchangeable (problably not the exact taper). the only way I could distinguish them was by a secret detail we had added. For you history buffs, the very first mini pulleys (15%) with pullers went to Helix, Promini and Randy in December, 2002; they were interference style as we felt that was a tried and true method. After Alta came out with the taper fit (Browining hub) style, we followed suit.
responding to this:
""
Originally Posted by El Diablito Rojo-N20Mini
how would you like it if someone came into your business copied your products.... and slapped your name on it and sold it? Wake up people...
Who has done that?'""
How about copying your product and slapping their own name on it, like the promini gage bracket and rogue intake knockoffs?
responding to this:
""
Originally Posted by El Diablito Rojo-N20Mini
how would you like it if someone came into your business copied your products.... and slapped your name on it and sold it? Wake up people...
Who has done that?'""
How about copying your product and slapping their own name on it, like the promini gage bracket and rogue intake knockoffs?
Last edited by jlm; Mar 26, 2005 at 11:16 AM.
Temporarily Banned
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,382
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From: Denver
Originally Posted by jlm
I am still curious why Randy was offering a different pulley in the first place. Was there some benefit or cosmetic reason?
).Again trying to be deadly honest - let me know if you have any other questions for me.
Randy
Last edited by RandyBMC; Mar 26, 2005 at 02:27 PM.
Banned
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From: So Cal
Originally Posted by RandyBMC
The polishing was cosmetic, the ET was to support another vendor who I believe in (that I don't want to drag into this), and because there was slightly more margin available (something I need to maintain the electric bill at the shop ).
Again trying to be deadly honest - let me know if you have any other questions for me.
RAndy
).Again trying to be deadly honest - let me know if you have any other questions for me.
RAndy
Temporarily Banned
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,382
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From: Denver
I didn't skimp on anything, and please, until you run a business with serious overhead of your own, don't tell me how to run mine. I also have four kids and the associated costs, and while I do what I do for love of the game, it is also the only living I make. I don't think you would appreciate me coming to your place of work and telling you you are making too much here, or too little there.
I belive in both pulleys, and I will shortly have pics and specs on the facilities where the German units are made (in Germany). I don't skimp on my parts, which is why I pick and choose which items I carry from each manufacturer - even Alta.
My shop rates are significantly less than most I know of for installs, and the pulley is the one place I make good money.
El, I'm tired of putting up with it. I did nothing to offend you, and even made an effort to come over as soon as I saw you at Vegas to provide you with SAE dyno runs - runs you never came over and looked at.
Randy
I belive in both pulleys, and I will shortly have pics and specs on the facilities where the German units are made (in Germany). I don't skimp on my parts, which is why I pick and choose which items I carry from each manufacturer - even Alta.
My shop rates are significantly less than most I know of for installs, and the pulley is the one place I make good money.
El, I'm tired of putting up with it. I did nothing to offend you, and even made an effort to come over as soon as I saw you at Vegas to provide you with SAE dyno runs - runs you never came over and looked at.
Randy
Last edited by Mark; Mar 26, 2005 at 09:35 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2004
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From: So Cal
First off,
I do have my own business with overhead.. thank you very much so I am keenly aware. I also do things for less than the current market allows for what I do also... something that gets me more clients in the end... I think $400 for a pulley is ridiculous and thats my personal opinion so how is that being an a-hole? I could care less what SAE dyno runs you had of customers cars... I wanted to see the "mule" since that is the only one of importance to our little conversation. Furthermore what are you putting up with? I wasn't the one who started everything on a late night beer drinking binge...
Try looking in the mirror before casting stones in a glass house
I do have my own business with overhead.. thank you very much so I am keenly aware. I also do things for less than the current market allows for what I do also... something that gets me more clients in the end... I think $400 for a pulley is ridiculous and thats my personal opinion so how is that being an a-hole? I could care less what SAE dyno runs you had of customers cars... I wanted to see the "mule" since that is the only one of importance to our little conversation. Furthermore what are you putting up with? I wasn't the one who started everything on a late night beer drinking binge...
Try looking in the mirror before casting stones in a glass house
Originally Posted by RandyBMC
I didn't skimp on anything, and please, until you run a business with serious overhead of your own, don't tell me how to run mine. I also have four kids and the associated costs, and while I do what I do for love of the game, it is also the only living I make. I don't think you would appreciate me coming to your place of work and telling you you are making too much here, or too little there.
I belive in both pulleys, and I will shortly have pics and specs on the facilities where the German units are made (in Germany). I don't skimp on my parts, which is why I pick and choose which items I carry from each manufacturer - even Alta.
My shop rates are significantly less than most I know of for installs, and the pulley is the one place I make good money.
El, don't be an a-hole anymore, I'm tired of putting up with it. I did nothing to offend you, and even made an effort to come over as soon as I saw you at Vegas to provide you with SAE dyno runs - runs you never came over and looked at.
Randy
I belive in both pulleys, and I will shortly have pics and specs on the facilities where the German units are made (in Germany). I don't skimp on my parts, which is why I pick and choose which items I carry from each manufacturer - even Alta.
My shop rates are significantly less than most I know of for installs, and the pulley is the one place I make good money.
El, don't be an a-hole anymore, I'm tired of putting up with it. I did nothing to offend you, and even made an effort to come over as soon as I saw you at Vegas to provide you with SAE dyno runs - runs you never came over and looked at.
Randy
North American Motoring :: Founder
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,070
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
I plan to give ALTA a call on Monday to discuss the issues behind this thread In the meantime, if you have an issue with ALTA, Webb Motorsports, or other vendor take the time to give them a call to address your issue. Every vendor on the site will make an attempt to address your issue. Taking it to the board first without giving this opportunity not only damages their ability to help you (and make you a satisfied customer) but also damages their reputation in the community...often without basis or due to a simple misunderstanding.
Also, if this thread continues to unravel and move off-topic it will be locked and/or removed.
Mark
Also, if this thread continues to unravel and move off-topic it will be locked and/or removed.
Mark
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,589
Likes: 2
From: Oregon, USA
Originally Posted by tsukiji
Their products are fine, but ALTA™ (Adam) has handled this whole thing so poorly that I'd rather not be associated with them.
Moderator :: Performance Mods
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,427
Likes: 8
From: A Den in Maryland
If I could make a suggestion...
Had I been in Alta/Adam's shoes, I would have made the initial announcement in the Vendor Announcements boards and had it stickied for a length of time. Simply make the announcement, telling the folks that if they had gotten a pulley other than the versions Alta sells (post pictures or detailed descriptions) under the pretenses it's an Alta product, then they should take it up with whomever sold them the pulley. The VA forums dont allow replies by the huddled masses of NAM, and it would not have escalated into finger pointing, hard feelings and name calling. Registered vendors at NAM can post replies, and as such, work to clear up any confusion without there becoming a nasty public bait 'n' brawl.
Just a thought.
Had I been in Alta/Adam's shoes, I would have made the initial announcement in the Vendor Announcements boards and had it stickied for a length of time. Simply make the announcement, telling the folks that if they had gotten a pulley other than the versions Alta sells (post pictures or detailed descriptions) under the pretenses it's an Alta product, then they should take it up with whomever sold them the pulley. The VA forums dont allow replies by the huddled masses of NAM, and it would not have escalated into finger pointing, hard feelings and name calling. Registered vendors at NAM can post replies, and as such, work to clear up any confusion without there becoming a nasty public bait 'n' brawl.
Just a thought.
Originally Posted by El Diablito Rojo-N20Mini
I thought the $400 bucks to install a pulley would at least keep the lights on for awhile..... less than an hr labor plus $85 pulley should be quite profitable... why skimp on a pulley for that price?
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
Originally Posted by Greatbear
If I could make a suggestion...
Had I been in Alta/Adam's shoes, I would have made the initial announcement in the Vendor Announcements boards and had it stickied for a length of time. Simply make the announcement, telling the folks that if they had gotten a pulley other than the versions Alta sells (post pictures or detailed descriptions) under the pretenses it's an Alta product, then they should take it up with whomever sold them the pulley. The VA forums dont allow replies by the huddled masses of NAM, and it would not have escalated into finger pointing, hard feelings and name calling. Registered vendors at NAM can post replies, and as such, work to clear up any confusion without there becoming a nasty public bait 'n' brawl.
Just a thought.
Had I been in Alta/Adam's shoes, I would have made the initial announcement in the Vendor Announcements boards and had it stickied for a length of time. Simply make the announcement, telling the folks that if they had gotten a pulley other than the versions Alta sells (post pictures or detailed descriptions) under the pretenses it's an Alta product, then they should take it up with whomever sold them the pulley. The VA forums dont allow replies by the huddled masses of NAM, and it would not have escalated into finger pointing, hard feelings and name calling. Registered vendors at NAM can post replies, and as such, work to clear up any confusion without there becoming a nasty public bait 'n' brawl.
Just a thought.
20/20 hindsight, I suppose. It looks like Alta identified the problem (people contacted them to ask why the pulleys they bought from a vendor didn't have the Alta logo) and Randy apoligized admitted that it was his error that caused the problem (he erroneously invoiced the "ET" pulleys as Alta pulleys since he had not created a new item description in his Quickbooks program). Seems like the case is closed to me.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 10
From: L.A ca
To the best of my knowledge $ 400 installed is the going rate for an installed pulley. Unless there has been a recent drop this is the normal price at one of the more popular Mini add on install locations in my area Steve's Auto Clinic.
Randy
M7 Tuning
Randy
M7 Tuning
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From: So Cal
I have reached that level... but I refuse to charge for it.... it's a personal preference
Originally Posted by MINI Monkey
I had a pulley installed in November in Richmond. Randy Webb, while installing the part, gave the whole group a great tech talk, answered dozens of my personal questions, took me on an amazing test drive, and after spending ten hours with him, I consider him a friend. $400.00, at the end of that day, seemed perfectly reasonable. I think once you have reached the level of accomplishment Randy has achieved, you can charge what you are worth and his clients obviously feel he is worth it. I know I do.