Drivetrain (Cooper S) MINI Cooper S (R56) intakes, exhausts, pulleys, headers, throttle bodies, and any other modifications to the Cooper S drivetrain.

Intercooler Upgrade and Car Feels Slower

  #1  
Old 04-19-2019, 10:31 PM
LittleS
LittleS is offline
Neutral
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Intercooler Upgrade and Car Feels Slower

Hey I shoehorned in the Wagner Knockoff Intercooler into a 2010 and the car just feels a little less zippy to me. Slightly less butt dyno feel and less quick throttle response to throw the car around.

Anyone else have have a similar experience? Iím wondering if the increased volume of air with the larger intercooler causes a little lag? I want to eventually tune the car so started with the intercooler but otherwise everything else is stock. Based on what Iíve read Iím surprised to have the car feel slower. Potentially possibly my imagination though.

I dont hear heat or feel any leaks around the intercooler connections and no error codes.

Thoughts? Thanks!
 
  #2  
Old 04-19-2019, 10:42 PM
weaverpsu
weaverpsu is offline
5th Gear
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 665
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Maybe try a search. I think I recall reading something like this before.
 
  #3  
Old 04-20-2019, 05:52 AM
Eurothrasher's Avatar
Eurothrasher
Eurothrasher is offline
5th Gear
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,014
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
What you are sensing is a Loss of Torque.

Look, both the size/volume and airflow of an Air Box intake system AND an Intercooler will directly effect Boost.....One needs to find a balance between pressures. If you install an intercooler with the volume of grand canyon expecting additional power from the added cooling you may be in for a suprise....

For example. While one would think an Alta intake is best for an R53, its not even while pushing 18lbs of boost and 210 hp. Pressure losses from too much air flow in the Alta will actually reduce torque. Remember, Hp sells cars, Torque wins races.

The same principal can be applied to an intercooler....The volume ( area inside the intercooler ) will directly effect Torque numbers....MINI finds that balanced based upon the HP supplied by the factory and wedging/aligning it based upon bumper support/grille design. So unless your running 30lbs of boost, and most are not. It is doubtful increasing the volume of an intercooler over stock will do very much for the Torque numbers.
 
  #4  
Old 04-20-2019, 09:49 PM
squawSkiBum
squawSkiBum is offline
Moderator
Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 1,567
Received 191 Likes on 162 Posts
I did some datalogging before and after installing my FMIC and didn't see any difference in performance as measured by time from 2000 rpm to redline in 3rd gear, over the same stretch of road. IATs were a lot lower afterwards of course.

Theoretically the increased volume in the intercooler will cause a bit of lag because it will take longer for the turbo to build pressure. But (butt?) I couldn't feel it or measure it.
 
  #5  
Old 04-21-2019, 02:00 PM
LittleS
LittleS is offline
Neutral
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks for the input guys. Iíve gotten a few more days to drive the car around and I donít think itís my imagination anymore. Up to about 3000 rpm it just feels a little mushy, just not a quick snappy response like before. After about 3000ish it feels like it is still pulling similarly hard, but thatís not when I feel like those little snappy throttle responses (torque?) which I enjoy immensely!

After digging around the the forums I did find a couple people saying the same thing. Iím surprised though it isnít more widely discussed.

I guess I am going to go back to stock until I get a tune some day.
 
  #6  
Old 04-21-2019, 04:15 PM
yesti
yesti is offline
5th Gear
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 884
Received 12 Likes on 11 Posts
Originally Posted by LittleS View Post
Hey I shoehorned in the Wagner Knockoff Intercooler into a 2010 and the car just feels a little less zippy to me. Slightly less butt dyno feel and less quick throttle response to throw the car around.

Anyone else have have a similar experience? Iím wondering if the increased volume of air with the larger intercooler causes a little lag? I want to eventually tune the car so started with the intercooler but otherwise everything else is stock. Based on what Iíve read Iím surprised to have the car feel slower. Potentially possibly my imagination though.

I dont hear heat or feel any leaks around the intercooler connections and no error codes.

Thoughts? Thanks!
Maybe you have a small boost leak somewhere else. Put the stock IC back on and see if butt from agrees. Since its a knock off maybe you are getting more of a pressure drop than another make, who knows. Or you can get a tune and make all that wrenching worth your time ;-) The stock tune doesn't really utilize IC/intake upgrades unless your IAT was sky high and now it's way lower.
 
  #7  
Old 04-21-2019, 08:54 PM
LostbutFound
LostbutFound is offline
2nd Gear
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: 29 Palms Ca
Posts: 91
Received 9 Likes on 7 Posts
Did you remove the restriction between the turbo output and the intercooler input? I think it is called the silencer.
 
  #8  
Old 04-22-2019, 03:48 PM
LittleS
LittleS is offline
Neutral
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The turbo muffler and noisemaker are still in place. So thatís a couple other things I could do to minimize air volume but I am doubting it would make too much of a difference.

Another thing, I think the volume of the Wagner is larger than the forge. Perhaps the forge knock off would have less of an effect and a better idea. The Wagner doesnít really fit so great either. (It looks really nicely constructed though)
 

Last edited by LittleS; 04-22-2019 at 03:58 PM.
  #9  
Old 04-25-2019, 12:40 PM
Yupetc
Yupetc is offline
3rd Gear
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 175
Received 30 Likes on 26 Posts
I've experienced the same when I did the upgraded intercooler. Mine is also an ebay version of some sort, claiming it the same design as the M7 one. Anyways, after I drive it like that a while with torque loss, I then deleted the silencer between the turbo and the intercooler. I deleted the noise maker between the intercooler and the throttle port. Lastly, I upgraded the BOV spring and changed it out to the Alta BOV housing. Altogether, the car felt strong again, even strong after 5k rpms. This went on for a while until I put a catless downpipe and it felt much peppier, too. Now I'm just waiting to do a stage 2 tune and a JMTC S42 turbo upgrade, but I gotta do this without my wife noticing, so... till then.
 
  #10  
Old 04-25-2019, 01:39 PM
LittleS
LittleS is offline
Neutral
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ok great thanks for the info. Those three things should be easy cheap upgrades. Did you happen to notice which of the 3 made the biggest difference? Iíll give it a go. Iím in the same wife boat as well. Tough to justify a tune for the $$. Expensive computer code. Iím also a bit concerned about wear and tear damage with a stage 2. Donít want to spend $600 to break the car. Wife will like that even less. Anyways thanks again.



Originally Posted by Yupetc View Post
I've experienced the same when I did the upgraded intercooler. Mine is also an ebay version of some sort, claiming it the same design as the M7 one. Anyways, after I drive it like that a while with torque loss, I then deleted the silencer between the turbo and the intercooler. I deleted the noise maker between the intercooler and the throttle port. Lastly, I upgraded the BOV spring and changed it out to the Alta BOV housing. Altogether, the car felt strong again, even strong after 5k rpms. This went on for a while until I put a catless downpipe and it felt much peppier, too. Now I'm just waiting to do a stage 2 tune and a JMTC S42 turbo upgrade, but I gotta do this without my wife noticing, so... till then.
 
  #11  
Old 04-26-2019, 07:19 AM
Yupetc
Yupetc is offline
3rd Gear
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 175
Received 30 Likes on 26 Posts
Originally Posted by LittleS View Post
Ok great thanks for the info. Those three things should be easy cheap upgrades. Did you happen to notice which of the 3 made the biggest difference? Iíll give it a go. Iím in the same wife boat as well. Tough to justify a tune for the $$. Expensive computer code. Iím also a bit concerned about wear and tear damage with a stage 2. Donít want to spend $600 to break the car. Wife will like that even less. Anyways thanks again.
I wish I had done it in separate stages, but when I did both deletes, I did it along with the BOV spring upgrade. So I won't be able to tell which mod gave me the most. I just know that after all 3 things done, it felt stronger again. But do keep a keen eye on hose leaks around the joints though, it's easy to angle them and have a leak here or there.
 
  #12  
Old 05-03-2019, 07:53 PM
Alpha Motoring's Avatar
Alpha Motoring
Alpha Motoring is offline
6th Gear
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bel Air, California
Posts: 2,775
Received 30 Likes on 27 Posts
Although the eBay FMIC are a hit or miss you shouldnít notice a noticeable loss in power. Almost want to say double check the charge and discharge side and make sure all pipes are tight.
 
  #13  
Old 05-04-2019, 09:05 AM
MINI33342
MINI33342 is offline
5th Gear
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 786
Received 10 Likes on 9 Posts
Originally Posted by Eurothrasher View Post
What you are sensing is a Loss of Torque.

Look, both the size/volume and airflow of an Air Box intake system AND an Intercooler will directly effect Boost.....One needs to find a balance between pressures. If you install an intercooler with the volume of grand canyon expecting additional power from the added cooling you may be in for a suprise....

For example. While one would think an Alta intake is best for an R53, its not even while pushing 18lbs of boost and 210 hp. Pressure losses from too much air flow in the Alta will actually reduce torque. Remember, Hp sells cars, Torque wins races.

The same principal can be applied to an intercooler....The volume ( area inside the intercooler ) will directly effect Torque numbers....MINI finds that balanced based upon the HP supplied by the factory and wedging/aligning it based upon bumper support/grille design. So unless your running 30lbs of boost, and most are not. It is doubtful increasing the volume of an intercooler over stock will do very much for the Torque numbers.
What.......seriously. The intake is going to have nothing to do with pressure loss, it's the door that allows air into the engine. More is always going to be better on intakes. You will lose available power by going smaller. Pressure is created by the SC.
 
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
k_h_d
Suspension
18
10-19-2013 07:33 AM
Mcameron
R56 :: Hatch Talk (2007+)
6
09-17-2013 01:38 PM
preme123
R60 :: Countryman Talk (2010-2015)
9
03-27-2013 09:30 AM
krackenthorpe
R50/R53 :: Hatch Talk (2002-2006)
18
06-22-2006 04:43 PM
C4
R50/R53 :: Hatch Talk (2002-2006)
0
04-01-2004 10:01 AM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Intercooler Upgrade and Car Feels Slower


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: