Drivetrain Blow off valve
#1
08-24-2018, 12:10 PM
#2
08-26-2018, 10:56 PM
Moderator
#3
08-27-2018, 05:13 AM
Alliance Member
Unless you have actually installed one, you shouldn't comment. I have had a Torque Solutions diverter adapter plate with a Forge valve installed to my Clubman S for two years and ~45,000+ miles, and NO issues or CELs.
#4
08-27-2018, 08:35 AM
Good to hear, could you please post a link to the adapter/Forge bov? thank you!
#5
08-27-2018, 08:41 AM
Alliance Member
I have this valve installed:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-forge-pa.../fmdvr60r~frg/
And this diverter plate:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-torque-s...-r56-bovs~tor/
I have a 2012 Clubman S with N18 engine. I am running a Manic stage 2 tune, but the valve and plate were installed prior to flashing the tune. The plate needs minor modification to fit next to the stock waste gate housing, but nothing a little bit of sandpaper couldn't handle. I get lots of fun noises between the diverter plate and the sport mode popcorns.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-forge-pa.../fmdvr60r~frg/
And this diverter plate:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-torque-s...-r56-bovs~tor/
I have a 2012 Clubman S with N18 engine. I am running a Manic stage 2 tune, but the valve and plate were installed prior to flashing the tune. The plate needs minor modification to fit next to the stock waste gate housing, but nothing a little bit of sandpaper couldn't handle. I get lots of fun noises between the diverter plate and the sport mode popcorns.
#6
08-27-2018, 08:50 AM
I have this valve installed:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-forge-pa.../fmdvr60r~frg/
And this diverter plate:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-torque-s...-r56-bovs~tor/
I have a 2012 Clubman S with N18 engine. I am running a Manic stage 2 tune, but the valve and plate were installed prior to flashing the tune. The plate needs minor modification to fit next to the stock waste gate housing, but nothing a little bit of sandpaper couldn't handle. I get lots of fun noises between the diverter plate and the sport mode popcorns.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-forge-pa.../fmdvr60r~frg/
And this diverter plate:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-torque-s...-r56-bovs~tor/
I have a 2012 Clubman S with N18 engine. I am running a Manic stage 2 tune, but the valve and plate were installed prior to flashing the tune. The plate needs minor modification to fit next to the stock waste gate housing, but nothing a little bit of sandpaper couldn't handle. I get lots of fun noises between the diverter plate and the sport mode popcorns.
#7
08-27-2018, 09:53 AM
Right upfront: I do not have, nor have I tried to use one. That said, I have looked into it. It seems, from what I’ve found, like the adapter plates are kind of hit or miss. Some folks have no issues at all, some get a CEL. The only way to really know is to try it on your car. It appears that the whole Forge unit, as opposed to the adapter plate, causes less issues, but I’m not quite sure anymore, as it appears that those units now have the adapter screwed on the bottom as well, instead of being one piece anymore. But that just from a quick look. I’m not trying to sound like any kind of authority on this at all, but I have checked into it because I do love the sound! I ended up getting a DV+ and it works great, but is very quiet. I’m curious if the adapter plate can be paired with the DV+. That would be perfect!
Good luck on it, and post your results if you do try it. The good thing is if you do get one and can’t use it, you can always put it up for resale here on NAM
Good luck on it, and post your results if you do try it. The good thing is if you do get one and can’t use it, you can always put it up for resale here on NAM
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#8
08-27-2018, 10:43 AM
Alliance Member
Right upfront: I do not have, nor have I tried to use one. That said, I have looked into it. It seems, from what I’ve found, like the adapter plates are kind of hit or miss. Some folks have no issues at all, some get a CEL. The only way to really know is to try it on your car. It appears that the whole Forge unit, as opposed to the adapter plate, causes less issues, but I’m not quite sure anymore, as it appears that those units now have the adapter screwed on the bottom as well, instead of being one piece anymore. But that just from a quick look. I’m not trying to sound like any kind of authority on this at all, but I have checked into it because I do love the sound! I ended up getting a DV+ and it works great, but is very quiet. I’m curious if the adapter plate can be paired with the DV+. That would be perfect!
Good luck on it, and post your results if you do try it. The good thing is if you do get one and can’t use it, you can always put it up for resale here on NAM
Good luck on it, and post your results if you do try it. The good thing is if you do get one and can’t use it, you can always put it up for resale here on NAM
I have a friend with a 2009 Cooper S with the N14 motor, and we installed the same bypass plate to his car. He is still running the OEM diverter valve, and has no issue with CEL or stumble. His was performed maybe a year ago, and 12,000 miles. His is also a daily driver.
#9
08-27-2018, 10:52 AM
Moderator
If it is a Blow Off Valve and vents boost pressure to atmosphere, it will cause a CEL. If it is a recirculating valve, then it has the same function as the stock recirculating valve and won't cause a CEL. The Forge valve is a recirculating valve, from the description at WMW: "The Forge valve is not really a blow off valve, but this is what it is commonly referred to as it is actually a recirculation valve. It does NOT vent the boost to the atmosphere like a blow off valve, but actually recirculates it like the design of the MINI originally has..."
The OP asked about blow off valves. There are plenty of threads here about the issues, some people say they get CELs, some people say it works just fine. This was a topic I researched carefully before deciding to spend my money on other things. The engine and ECU are designed for recirculating, while you won't get whoooshy noises, a recirculating valve will keep the turbo spinning and result in less turbo lag when you get back on the throttle.
#10
08-27-2018, 03:30 PM
Alliance Member
Let's be precise with our descriptions.
If it is a Blow Off Valve and vents boost pressure to atmosphere, it will cause a CEL. If it is a recirculating valve, then it has the same function as the stock recirculating valve and won't cause a CEL. The Forge valve is a recirculating valve, from the description at WMW: "The Forge valve is not really a blow off valve, but this is what it is commonly referred to as it is actually a recirculation valve. It does NOT vent the boost to the atmosphere like a blow off valve, but actually recirculates it like the design of the MINI originally has..."
The OP asked about blow off valves. There are plenty of threads here about the issues, some people say they get CELs, some people say it works just fine. This was a topic I researched carefully before deciding to spend my money on other things. The engine and ECU are designed for recirculating, while you won't get whoooshy noises, a recirculating valve will keep the turbo spinning and result in less turbo lag when you get back on the throttle.
If it is a Blow Off Valve and vents boost pressure to atmosphere, it will cause a CEL. If it is a recirculating valve, then it has the same function as the stock recirculating valve and won't cause a CEL. The Forge valve is a recirculating valve, from the description at WMW: "The Forge valve is not really a blow off valve, but this is what it is commonly referred to as it is actually a recirculation valve. It does NOT vent the boost to the atmosphere like a blow off valve, but actually recirculates it like the design of the MINI originally has..."
The OP asked about blow off valves. There are plenty of threads here about the issues, some people say they get CELs, some people say it works just fine. This was a topic I researched carefully before deciding to spend my money on other things. The engine and ECU are designed for recirculating, while you won't get whoooshy noises, a recirculating valve will keep the turbo spinning and result in less turbo lag when you get back on the throttle.
#11
08-27-2018, 08:00 PM
Moderator
thanks.
#12
08-28-2018, 05:24 AM
Alliance Member
Since it works for you, I'm genuinely curious - 1) how did you manage to install it? Since on my N18 there's no room behind the stock diverter valve to add any spacer, due to the cooling plumbing for the turbo. This is one of the issues I found during my research on the topic some years ago. 2) do you notice any performance impact? 3) why did you decide to install it?
thanks.
thanks.
2) No performance impact, good or bad, that I can tell.
3) I installed it when I bought the car because I wanted to hear the turbo blow-off sounds, it was purely an emotional decision.
#13
08-30-2018, 10:30 PM
I installed a Forge atmospheric BOV (FMDVR60A) on my 2011 N18 more than 30k miles ago, did not use a spacer, and have had no check engine light issues related to this install. Love the noise, and I do believe that boost recovers more quickly after shifts versus the stock recirc valve, even after I had installed the heavier ALTA spring on my stock recirc valve.
#14
08-31-2018, 09:29 PM
Moderator
OK it looks like I was mistaken about the vent to atmosphere (VTA) valve on the N18. It is about 50/50 on the N14 though based on posts from people who have installed one.
The reason for either a VTA or recirculating valve is to prevent turbo "flutter", which is the impeller blades of the turbo stalling when the air stops moving because the throttle closed. This can damage the turbo bearings. N14 and N18 engines differ in that the N14 uses the throttle plate to regulate airflow into the intake manifold, the N18 uses variable valve lift. I'm not sure how this affects the overall issue but since there is a longer path in the N18 vs. the N14 (the N18 air path is all the way through the throttle body and intake runners up to the intake valves) there's likely more of a spring or cushion effect when you suddenly lift in the N18 vs. the N14. In either case there is be a boost spike as moving air hits closed throttle plate or intake valves.
With sustained full throttle, the turbo will be at maximum RPM so lifting suddenly and closing the throttle plate (N14) or reducing intake valve lift (N18) will stop the airflow out of the turbo. That airflow either has to get vented or recirculated. Venting it makes noise, which some people like, but it also means that the pressure the turbo has been working hard to build is lost and the turbo starts to slow down. Recirculating the output of the turbo back to the input keeps the turbo from slowing down which means that boost will build faster once you're back on the throttle again, so it minimizes turbo lag.
I get it that some people like to hear the noise of the turbo boost being released. I'm an engineer and tend to over analyze things, I think the recirculating valve is an elegant solution to minimizing turbo lag, and will always make my decision based on performance and efficiency. The original reciculation valve is well known for failures, there is an updated part available. But it's your MINI, you get to do what you want with it.
The reason for either a VTA or recirculating valve is to prevent turbo "flutter", which is the impeller blades of the turbo stalling when the air stops moving because the throttle closed. This can damage the turbo bearings. N14 and N18 engines differ in that the N14 uses the throttle plate to regulate airflow into the intake manifold, the N18 uses variable valve lift. I'm not sure how this affects the overall issue but since there is a longer path in the N18 vs. the N14 (the N18 air path is all the way through the throttle body and intake runners up to the intake valves) there's likely more of a spring or cushion effect when you suddenly lift in the N18 vs. the N14. In either case there is be a boost spike as moving air hits closed throttle plate or intake valves.
With sustained full throttle, the turbo will be at maximum RPM so lifting suddenly and closing the throttle plate (N14) or reducing intake valve lift (N18) will stop the airflow out of the turbo. That airflow either has to get vented or recirculated. Venting it makes noise, which some people like, but it also means that the pressure the turbo has been working hard to build is lost and the turbo starts to slow down. Recirculating the output of the turbo back to the input keeps the turbo from slowing down which means that boost will build faster once you're back on the throttle again, so it minimizes turbo lag.
I get it that some people like to hear the noise of the turbo boost being released. I'm an engineer and tend to over analyze things, I think the recirculating valve is an elegant solution to minimizing turbo lag, and will always make my decision based on performance and efficiency. The original reciculation valve is well known for failures, there is an updated part available. But it's your MINI, you get to do what you want with it.
#15
08-31-2018, 11:06 PM
OK it looks like I was mistaken about the vent to atmosphere (VTA) valve on the N18. It is about 50/50 on the N14 though based on posts from people who have installed one.
The reason for either a VTA or recirculating valve is to prevent turbo "flutter", which is the impeller blades of the turbo stalling when the air stops moving because the throttle closed. This can damage the turbo bearings. N14 and N18 engines differ in that the N14 uses the throttle plate to regulate airflow into the intake manifold, the N18 uses variable valve lift. I'm not sure how this affects the overall issue but since there is a longer path in the N18 vs. the N14 (the N18 air path is all the way through the throttle body and intake runners up to the intake valves) there's likely more of a spring or cushion effect when you suddenly lift in the N18 vs. the N14. In either case there is be a boost spike as moving air hits closed throttle plate or intake valves.
With sustained full throttle, the turbo will be at maximum RPM so lifting suddenly and closing the throttle plate (N14) or reducing intake valve lift (N18) will stop the airflow out of the turbo. That airflow either has to get vented or recirculated. Venting it makes noise, which some people like, but it also means that the pressure the turbo has been working hard to build is lost and the turbo starts to slow down. Recirculating the output of the turbo back to the input keeps the turbo from slowing down which means that boost will build faster once you're back on the throttle again, so it minimizes turbo lag.
I get it that some people like to hear the noise of the turbo boost being released. I'm an engineer and tend to over analyze things, I think the recirculating valve is an elegant solution to minimizing turbo lag, and will always make my decision based on performance and efficiency. The original reciculation valve is well known for failures, there is an updated part available. But it's your MINI, you get to do what you want with it.
The reason for either a VTA or recirculating valve is to prevent turbo "flutter", which is the impeller blades of the turbo stalling when the air stops moving because the throttle closed. This can damage the turbo bearings. N14 and N18 engines differ in that the N14 uses the throttle plate to regulate airflow into the intake manifold, the N18 uses variable valve lift. I'm not sure how this affects the overall issue but since there is a longer path in the N18 vs. the N14 (the N18 air path is all the way through the throttle body and intake runners up to the intake valves) there's likely more of a spring or cushion effect when you suddenly lift in the N18 vs. the N14. In either case there is be a boost spike as moving air hits closed throttle plate or intake valves.
With sustained full throttle, the turbo will be at maximum RPM so lifting suddenly and closing the throttle plate (N14) or reducing intake valve lift (N18) will stop the airflow out of the turbo. That airflow either has to get vented or recirculated. Venting it makes noise, which some people like, but it also means that the pressure the turbo has been working hard to build is lost and the turbo starts to slow down. Recirculating the output of the turbo back to the input keeps the turbo from slowing down which means that boost will build faster once you're back on the throttle again, so it minimizes turbo lag.
I get it that some people like to hear the noise of the turbo boost being released. I'm an engineer and tend to over analyze things, I think the recirculating valve is an elegant solution to minimizing turbo lag, and will always make my decision based on performance and efficiency. The original reciculation valve is well known for failures, there is an updated part available. But it's your MINI, you get to do what you want with it.
That said, I do get enough noise from other sources to be happy! Between the sound of the exhaust, the pops, and sweet sound of the spooling turbo are enough to make me grin.
#16
10-04-2018, 06:55 PM
Diverter plate
Not to revive anything dead but there are not enough people who have tried it and posted results.
$20 ebay n14 diverter plate fit on my n18 just had to notch the front mounting hole edge and widen the crappy China holes. I also bought American bolts for my comfort.
I would advise buying name brand unless you have small hands and patience but I was not positive it would fit so $90 vs $20 wasted I'll take my $23 3 hour no CEL "woosh", though eventually I may add a real bov for the "psssht"
my $0.02
Edit note: I am running a newer jb+ at 50% just in case that might help fool MAF though I dont think so.
and what are peoples opinions [ if any] on blocking off a 2 of the holes in the diverter plate for less woosh more psssht , I imagine if I take mine off it will be to add real BOV but jw.
$20 ebay n14 diverter plate fit on my n18 just had to notch the front mounting hole edge and widen the crappy China holes. I also bought American bolts for my comfort.
I would advise buying name brand unless you have small hands and patience but I was not positive it would fit so $90 vs $20 wasted I'll take my $23 3 hour no CEL "woosh", though eventually I may add a real bov for the "psssht"
my $0.02
Edit note: I am running a newer jb+ at 50% just in case that might help fool MAF though I dont think so.
and what are peoples opinions [ if any] on blocking off a 2 of the holes in the diverter plate for less woosh more psssht , I imagine if I take mine off it will be to add real BOV but jw.
#17
10-13-2018, 09:29 PM
Blow off valve adapter
Not to revive anything dead but there are not enough people who have tried it and posted results.
$20 ebay n14 diverter plate fit on my n18 just had to notch the front mounting hole edge and widen the crappy China holes. I also bought American bolts for my comfort.
I would advise buying name brand unless you have small hands and patience but I was not positive it would fit so $90 vs $20 wasted I'll take my $23 3 hour no CEL "woosh", though eventually I may add a real bov for the "psssht"
my $0.02
Edit note: I am running a newer jb+ at 50% just in case that might help fool MAF though I dont think so.
and what are peoples opinions [ if any] on blocking off a 2 of the holes in the diverter plate for less woosh more psssht , I imagine if I take mine off it will be to add real BOV but jw.
$20 ebay n14 diverter plate fit on my n18 just had to notch the front mounting hole edge and widen the crappy China holes. I also bought American bolts for my comfort.
I would advise buying name brand unless you have small hands and patience but I was not positive it would fit so $90 vs $20 wasted I'll take my $23 3 hour no CEL "woosh", though eventually I may add a real bov for the "psssht"
my $0.02
Edit note: I am running a newer jb+ at 50% just in case that might help fool MAF though I dont think so.
and what are peoples opinions [ if any] on blocking off a 2 of the holes in the diverter plate for less woosh more psssht , I imagine if I take mine off it will be to add real BOV but jw.
#18
10-14-2018, 12:17 AM
Well the codes are for cylinder 2 & 4 misfire. There are several things that can cause a misfire, unfortunately. What year is your car? Was it doing this before you did the walnut blast, or was it after? As for the diverter, what was the reason for the swap? Was it misfiring before you did anything to the diverter? You can take a look at your plugs, to see what condition they are in, when we’re they changed last? Same question for the coils. Are you getting any other codes or symptoms?
As a first step, if it were me, and the plugs and coils are ok, I would first determine when it started occurring, and if it was immediately after doing something to the car. If it started right after changing something on the car, I would start my investigation there. Go over all the connections to make sure they are all connected properly and locked in place, and make sure and screws and bolts are tight, etc. What brought it on and when will be important in trying to diagnose it. But start by inspecting the plugs and coils, they are simple and easy to get to and check out.
Let is know how it goes, good luck
As a first step, if it were me, and the plugs and coils are ok, I would first determine when it started occurring, and if it was immediately after doing something to the car. If it started right after changing something on the car, I would start my investigation there. Go over all the connections to make sure they are all connected properly and locked in place, and make sure and screws and bolts are tight, etc. What brought it on and when will be important in trying to diagnose it. But start by inspecting the plugs and coils, they are simple and easy to get to and check out.
Let is know how it goes, good luck
#19
10-14-2018, 05:02 PM
Well the codes are for cylinder 2 & 4 misfire. There are several things that can cause a misfire, unfortunately. What year is your car? Was it doing this before you did the walnut blast, or was it after? As for the diverter, what was the reason for the swap? Was it misfiring before you did anything to the diverter? You can take a look at your plugs, to see what condition they are in, when we’re they changed last? Same question for the coils. Are you getting any other codes or symptoms?
As a first step, if it were me, and the plugs and coils are ok, I would first determine when it started occurring, and if it was immediately after doing something to the car. If it started right after changing something on the car, I would start my investigation there. Go over all the connections to make sure they are all connected properly and locked in place, and make sure and screws and bolts are tight, etc. What brought it on and when will be important in trying to diagnose it. But start by inspecting the plugs and coils, they are simple and easy to get to and check out.
Let is know how it goes, good luck
As a first step, if it were me, and the plugs and coils are ok, I would first determine when it started occurring, and if it was immediately after doing something to the car. If it started right after changing something on the car, I would start my investigation there. Go over all the connections to make sure they are all connected properly and locked in place, and make sure and screws and bolts are tight, etc. What brought it on and when will be important in trying to diagnose it. But start by inspecting the plugs and coils, they are simple and easy to get to and check out.
Let is know how it goes, good luck
One thing i did not pay close attention is monitor the fuel pressure when this is happening, i’m going to test drive the car and see what is fuel pressure show on my Scan-Gauge.
Last edited by drea-min; 10-14-2018 at 05:47 PM.
#20
10-15-2018, 06:42 PM
That’s a good plan. Monitor as much as you can when it happens. It’s tough to diagnose anything over the internet. But there are unfortunately, several things that can cause something like that. I once had a multiple cylinder misfire with really bad jerking when I put my foot into it a bit. All from overboosting after a turbo swap, because I didn’t check the wastegate adjustment before I installed it. Like I said, lots of causes, lol.
good luck
good luck
#21
10-19-2018, 01:47 PM
I just replaced the Diverter valve (New) and still popped when accelerate a little harder and if i pushed more it slowed down, initially no code but it shows engine check light.
whenever the BST goes 7+ and RPM around 3000plus it popped and the engine lights comes on when i released the gas it reset and when i tried to pushed more it keeps popping the eventually it goes liimmed mode and when i turn off and on the engine it start right away... No code at first then when i checked it after i gets home the code P0302 came on after.
whenever the BST goes 7+ and RPM around 3000plus it popped and the engine lights comes on when i released the gas it reset and when i tried to pushed more it keeps popping the eventually it goes liimmed mode and when i turn off and on the engine it start right away... No code at first then when i checked it after i gets home the code P0302 came on after.
Last edited by drea-min; 10-19-2018 at 02:38 PM.
#24
10-20-2018, 04:32 AM
Alliance Member
#25
10-20-2018, 10:50 PM
I didn’t had a chance to look at the injectors and neither the fuel pump, i was assuming the fuel pump is ok because it shows it has enough pressure based on the Scan Gauge, i don’t have any sign of hesitations and idle smoothly. I will have to take it to the dealer and pay them to troubleshoot the fuel pump.