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We were discussing coil outputs in another thread and wanted to start one here for sharing of information on this subject.
From the original thread:
Originally Posted by Dave.O
Here is MSD and Screaming Demon proof from a good friend that had them tested.
So because EVERYBODY asks about coils, I will post up some test information so its easily searchable when somebody posts up about the weaker than stock MSD coil soon.
As you can see the MSD is a UPGRADE over the stock Mitsu coil, but not over the stock MINI coil.
With a 3,5ms dwell time the stock coil will be right around its max duty cycle at 8000rpm using wasted spark like the stock system.
All of them will honestly light off a spark with a M45. Its the back feeding to the ECU you have to worry about with the non stock ones. They have fried many 1st Gen MINI OEM ECUs over the years but people don’t listen because they are Red and made by MSD (for a Dogde Neon) so they must be better.
My question is this, who did the testing and what was the input voltage / amperage? Both of these things will affect coil output greatly.
We were discussing coil outputs in another thread and wanted to start one here for sharing of information on this subject.
From the original thread:
My question is this, who did the testing and what was the input voltage / amperage? Both of these things will affect coil output greatly.
You are wasting your time trying to ask hard questions. Ignition coil questions is like engine oil. It is a deep rabbit hole and if you dig deep enough you are likely find it is not a rabbit hole but a moles hole.
A lot of owners fall for a little is good, a lot must be better. As for the ignition, I would just point out one thing: no matter what the claims are from those neon colour coilpack manufacturers, at the end of the day (or source of the electrical juice) it relies on the coil drivers IC inside the DME module. Sure, you can squeeze a joule or more of electrical energy without killing the low voltage side driver. Does more joule (juice) the better? Don't forget, the coil pack is just 2 dumb step-up transformers that have been around before the model T.
From what I infer, a lot of those my size is bigger than your stock size ignition wires, the quality of the boots, which is one of the most important attribute, is very lacking.
Not you are not wasting time asking the questions when it comes to burning up your OEM ECU. Did you see the post for Eva Bombers 641 whp r53..... he paid to have the testing done. We have all known the results for years but everyone wanted proof.
Not you are not wasting time asking the questions when it comes to burning up your OEM ECU. Did you see the post for Eva Bombers 641 whp r53..... he paid to have the testing done. We have all known the results for years but everyone wanted proof.
There is a lot to a coil make-up than just a simple step up transformer. You have to take into account winding count, materials used, insulators, supply voltage, etc.
There are many things that can help get more spark energy to the plug, one of them is as you mentioned.
A quality spark plug wire with quality boots.
In Japan the big thing is voltage supply to coils, bump up the voltage, bump up the output. This is not dependent on the DME as they use different styles of ignition boxes and such to achieve the target input voltage and maintain it during hard use.
But I digress, my original idea behind this thread was to analyze the data that Dave.O had provided. The first question I asked would be the missing variable in the data. Without that information the data is inconclusive.
14v///amperage was what the coil pulled.. It is a 14v feed on a 20 amp fuse. He didn't give me the numbers for what the coil pulled on the amperage. The coils are ran off a Motec engine Sim 3. Wasted spark config.
I still run a wasted spark setup in my Evo. It's a coil on plug wasted spark, I don't make 1000whp with it. It's not slouch though
As far as the MINI. I am now going direct spark, there wasn't a need for it to be honest. I was running a. 028 gap at 45psi on E85. Duty cycle on the coil is getting high now though as I've had to turn up the dwell. So with my 9k+ use and my dwell it's time to switch.
I am also switching because I need a little better control when it comes to limiter and traction control stuff. Also makes the random mix rev limiter work a little better.
there is no way I would ever let a red coil touch my car, they fry the ecu, TONS Of posts about it on here and other forums, I honestly thought everyone already knew this by now
Probably not, It's in pieces more than it's together. I like to use the R53 to try out my theories because it's cheap to fix. Current experiment is trying out some new coatings and surface treatments to see if they are worth the costs.
Current experiment is trying out some new coatings and surface treatments to see if they are worth the costs.
Coatings are worth the cost of you do the work yourself. As long as you can polish a car with a DA you can coat a car with a coating.
I am am not sure what coatings you are testing but try Gyeon Syncro. Hands down the best you can get before you jump to the level of Kamikaze coatings.
Products like CQuartz, Gtechniq and any Autogeek brands are weak and can be hard to remove when applying as I have done my own testing on many cars. All of my clients love the Gyeon products that I apply and send me additional clients.
Dave O. - Not those types of coatings, more in the line of Dry Film technology and Thermal Barrier and Dispersal. But thanks for the tip I am going to check those coatings out also.
Dave O. - Not those types of coatings, more in the line of Dry Film technology and Thermal Barrier and Dispersal. But thanks for the tip I am going to check those coatings out also.
Ahhh ok, see I was not sure what type of “coating” you were talking about.
In most places where people congregate there are usually some BS artist that talks like they are the absolute epitome of the given subject. I can tell you that Dave does know his stuff when it comes to keeping a car looking better than new. I saw his car for the first time at MOTD and my neck is still stiff from jerking around watching the Mistress go by.
07-08-2018, 09:23 AM
Don't forget, the coil pack is just 2 dumb step-up transformers that have been around before the model T.
Thank you for sharing this data.
