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I posted this on minif56.com with little response so I'm going to try here as well.
I've heard people mention others who have done turbo upgrades to their s / jcw but I can't find any posts or information about them.
Who has done a turbo upgrade or swap and how have your results been? Can anyone toss some links of others who have or post up your personal experience?
I've been looking at the JM Turbo Coopers Super S which is an upgraded and modified oem unit. I've also heard things about people sending their turbo to g-pop for a new wheel, bearing, and porting but haven't heard any feedback on either. I want to make sure I've done all my research before hand.
I’ve heard pistons break easily on these cars. Not sure if I would do a turbo without building the motor.
It was fine on my R56 but don’t think the F56 will hold up on a bigger turbo.
There's so much hearsay out there on how weak these engines are. I've heard it over and over again but no facts/information on where that point has happened for some people.
There's so much hearsay out there on how weak these engines are. I've heard it over and over again but no facts/information on where that point has happened for some people.
This. I have yet to see anyone who spreads this provide any sort of information besides "well I heard from my brothers girlfriends sisters hamster that F series internals are weak"
I don't know what you up for, however on the turbo you stated it already, you can do, other bearings and fine tune of the wheel. If you want to go further you can change the wheel and fine tune the housing.
the 1st step is without coding and improves the turbo around 10-15%, result is a improved response.
I don't think you do it yourself , so you need serious partners, if there are any in the US like GIGAMOT i don't know, but they offer that service for €700, for bigger wheel €300 plus , obvious this is based on your delivered stock turbo.
Dervtech tuning over in the UK is planning on releasing some "hybrid" turbo for gen 3 cars that they are claiming is good for 350hp.
Maybe Bytetronik has plans to do something similar in the US, we can only hope. If you want to run a different turbo you don't just slap on the turbo and call it a day. You would need tuning to match.
Where did you get the 10-15% number? I've never heard that before.
We have several companies that can do the wheel and bearing upgrade as well as porting here in the US. One of them was http://gpopshop.com/services/turbo-upgrades/, who I mentioned above. If anyone knows of other turbo shops that are good I'd like to hear about them as well.
Originally Posted by Clutch Wotan
I don't know what you up for, however on the turbo you stated it already, you can do, other bearings and fine tune of the wheel. If you want to go further you can change the wheel and fine tune the housing.
the 1st step is without coding and improves the turbo around 10-15%, result is a improved response.
I don't think you do it yourself , so you need serious partners, if there are any in the US like GIGAMOT i don't know, but they offer that service for €700, for bigger wheel €300 plus , obvious this is based on your delivered stock turbo.
Is this personal experience with this turbo upgrade? How did it work out?
Nope. Just an advert I got from a site sponsor. I believe the manufacturer is a reputable company. As stated in an earlier post, an upgraded turbo would require a tune at the very least to take advantage of the new hardware. I have too much warranty left to go that far yet.
You can but the question would be why would you. The point of an upgraded turbo like that is to be able to run a higher boost level. I see a more efficient turbo as a byproduct.
I agree, I wish they made this a package deal.
Quoted from JMTC "Tuning is not required but will be will help the turbo and engine reach their full potential." -fix the type JMTC
For anyone looking for all the information and links in one place.
You can but the question would be why would you. The point of an upgraded turbo like that is to be able to run a higher boost level. I see a more efficient turbo as a byproduct.
I agree, I wish they made this a package deal.
Quoted from JMTC "Tuning is not required but will be will help the turbo and engine reach their full potential." -fix the type JMTC
For anyone looking for all the information and links in one place.
I don't think you, strictly speaking, need more boost pressure to make more power. PSI isn't really comparable between turbos. With a bigger wheel and more CFMs, you can have more air per pressure level. What remains to be seen is how the stock software responds to that increase in flow.
May as well do it right either way, and have proper software and more pressure. . I just don't see any options there at present (in the US at least). Maybe we'll eventually have a Manic or Bytetronic option to go along with hardware like that. It does seem mostly pointless until that exists since you'd be wasting that potential.
No numbers at all for their software makes it seem like a non-option.
Dervtech tuning over in the UK is planning on releasing some "hybrid" turbo for gen 3 cars that they are claiming is good for 350hp.
Maybe Bytetronik has plans to do something similar in the US, we can only hope. If you want to run a different turbo you don't just slap on the turbo and call it a day. You would need tuning to match.
The F56 stock turbo is capable of making over 300 WHP (or even 350WHP) if we up the boost some more. We are pushing 18/19 PSI and making 280WHP and over 300 Wheel Torque (and the clutch is already slipping).
So in order to put the power to good use, we need to find an upgraded clutch for the F56s... and also built internals (read below).
Originally Posted by trentiles
This. I have yet to see anyone who spreads this provide any sort of information besides "well I heard from my brothers girlfriends sisters hamster that F series internals are weak"
The internals on the 3rd-Gen is indeed weak. We have seen pictures of damaged pistons from the UK Challenge car and that's when MINI lowered the compression ratio from 11.1 to 10.2 on the JCW.
We know of one B46 engine that threw the #1 rod through the block boosting 19-20 PSI and it was on stock turbo and some bolt-on mods. So for all those who are *tricking the ECU* to run 22PSI (or higher) and with lean AFRs, be very careful... The B48 engine seems to be beefier than B46 based on our experience, but running 'lean' and 'too much PSI' yield no good results
So before we venture into Stage II Tuning, the engine internals will have to be addressed first, then we have to find a solution for the clutch.
One other option to throw out onto the table is having your OEM unit 'upgraded' by an independent turbo shop...why go with 'off-the-shelf' if you can create your own, eh?? One shop that I would recommend calling, if interested, is Evergreen Turbo down in Ocala, FL and have a chat with Charlie. He knows turbos inside and out and could likely come up with an upgrade for our units. I know several guys outside the MINI world that have used Evergreen's services and have had great success. If you do call him, ask him about the Dodge Dakota turbo-diesel drag racing team he worked with...funny story!
The comment about not needing more boost if you have a larger turbo is very true, as long as your engine can consume it. I moved from a stock-ish T3 turbo to a hybrid T3/T4 on my SVO and picked up a solid 30-40 rwhp at the same boost levels without any other 'tuning' to my system. Obviously the T3 had become a restriction in the system at that point and the OEM electronics had enough head-room to handle the additional HP without running lean as well. YMMV.
The F56 stock turbo is capable of making over 300 WHP (or even 350WHP) if we up the boost some more. We are pushing 18/19 PSI and making 280WHP and over 300 Wheel Torque (and the clutch is already slipping).
So in order
The internals on the 3rd-Gen is indeed weak. We have seen pictures of damaged pistons from the UK Challenge car and that's when MINI lowered the compression ratio from 11.1 to 10.2 on the JCW.
We know of one B46 engine that threw the #1 rod through the block boosting 19-20 PSI and it was on stock turbo and some bolt-on mods. So for all those who are *tricking the ECU* to run 22PSI (or higher) and with lean AFRs, be very careful... The B48 engine seems to be beefier than B46 based on our experience, but running 'lean' and 'too much PSI' yield no good results
So before we venture into Stage II Tuning, the engine internals will have to be addressed first, then we have to find a solution for the clutch.
As far as I no the challenge car uses the cooper s engine.
I no of four cooper s cars (road cars) that have failed after being tuned in the UK by different tuners have you seen any failures with the jcw cars.
One other option to throw out onto the table is having your OEM unit 'upgraded' by an independent turbo shop...why go with 'off-the-shelf' if you can create your own, eh?? One shop that I would recommend calling, if interested, is Evergreen Turbo down in Ocala, FL and have a chat with Charlie. He knows turbos inside and out and could likely come up with an upgrade for our units. I know several guys outside the MINI world that have used Evergreen's services and have had great success. If you do call him, ask him about the Dodge Dakota turbo-diesel drag racing team he worked with...funny story!
The comment about not needing more boost if you have a larger turbo is very true, as long as your engine can consume it. I moved from a stock-ish T3 turbo to a hybrid T3/T4 on my SVO and picked up a solid 30-40 rwhp at the same boost levels without any other 'tuning' to my system. Obviously the T3 had become a restriction in the system at that point and the OEM electronics had enough head-room to handle the additional HP without running lean as well. YMMV.
I changed the pistons & clutch, the turbo is under construction, had to wait to find reasonable priced core unit at Ebay, without ecu tune quite useless. However necessary to hoax Porsches.
This. I have yet to see anyone who spreads this provide any sort of information besides "well I heard from my brothers girlfriends sisters hamster that F series internals are weak"
I’m skeptical of this as well, I have been told by a local enthusiast shop that you can easily go 300hp or more with an N18 before you need to start upgrading the internals
I changed the pistons & clutch, the turbo is under construction, had to wait to find reasonable priced core unit at Ebay, without ecu tune quite useless. However necessary to hoax Porsches.
bonjour j'aimerais avoir des informations car en france impossible ... j'aimerais avoir un turbo hybride, mais pas aussi solide que celui que vous vendez.
voici mes idées Turbine en aluminium de diamètre seulement 40 au lieu des 50 proposés ou turbine à 9 pales au lieu de 6. Quel serait le meilleur choix? Et bien sûr, cela ne change pas les doubles roulements en céramique. Et bien sûr un équilibrage de l'ensemble
Que pensez-vous aussi d'un traitement peinture Céramique?
voici le banc de puissance pour ma mini cooper s F56 stage II
Sincèrement
Last edited by minicooper31; 04-25-2021 at 12:54 AM.
10-10-2017, 12:56 PM
. I just don't see any options there at present (in the US at least). Maybe we'll eventually have a Manic or Bytetronic option to go along with hardware like that. It does seem mostly pointless until that exists since you'd be wasting that potential.
