R53 Power - Turbo vs Sprintex
Hello all! I'm looking for input from people who have upgraded their R53's with either a sprintex supercharger upgrade (along with all the usual bolt ons) vs. a turbo conversion and does anyone make a turbo conversion kit for the R53 or are they all custom done? I'd rather stick with supercharging but I've heard some reliability issues with the sprintex units. I've owned lots of turbo cars but I love the way the supercharger winds up in the R53. Also, do both of these setups require fully built motors with forged internals and a new head (like RMW's "Jesus" head" or the JCW head) and if the motors are built is it possible to increase the bore from 1.6L to a 2.0L? I know many people increase to a 1.8. Thanks for all your answers. So you know I have an 06 R53 Checkmate with just about every bolt-on you can find outside of a methanol kit. Car makes around 210hp at the wheels on Heilx's dyno after Jan tuned it post adding 450cc injectors.
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the m45 blower (stock) can be had to about 250 whp. this is with a built head and cam. going to a 1.8 stroker can be brought up a bit more, I haven't heard of boring the block, im sure it could be done.
the sprintex ideally pushes more air but has issues with IAT and an oil seal ring, not sure if these issues have been dealt with. but ultimately, a turbo will always make more power than a supercharger. unfortunately a turbo, there is no real kit, there used to be some, but now they are custom made. the cost of the conversion is much higher, since youll need a standalone ecu, custom manifold, waterpump, piping..... |
Originally Posted by Saltysalt
(Post 4128316)
the m45 blower (stock) can be had to about 250 whp. this is with a built head and cam. going to a 1.8 stroker can be brought up a bit more, I haven't heard of boring the block, im sure it could be done. the sprintex ideally pushes more air but has issues with IAT and an oil seal ring, not sure if these issues have been dealt with. but ultimately, a turbo will always make more power than a supercharger. unfortunately a turbo, there is no real kit, there used to be some, but now they are custom made. the cost of the conversion is much higher, since youll need a standalone ecu, custom manifold, waterpump, piping.....
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Originally Posted by NYMADMINI
(Post 4128370)
Thanks for the info! I was hoping you didn't have to go stand alone like Motec or DTM - too much $ to spend on my '06 MCS. 250whp is good, but it's "only" 40whp more than where I am now?!? I'm also at 168 ft/lbs to the wheels. With a head and cam what should the torque numbers be at? Lastly, with a head and a cam can you achieve that with a JCW head and a Schrick cam or do you need an RMW or other cam? Also, were you referring to RMW's "Jesus" head vs a JCW (or other if you know)? From what I know of parts and labor (and I have stock headers now going to a milltek cat back and would definitely add headers and a high flow at (most likely from Milltek) this sounds like a $5k-$7k job with parts and labor! And I'll need bigger injectors (mine are only 450cc RMW injectors) and undoubtedly a larger intercooler and a retune! Now it's sounding like $6-$8k more to spend for 40whp?!? Jesus, if I did that in an VW GTI I could have a nearly 400whp kit.
a head and cam I believe will bring you to around 200 twq and 250 whp with a proper tune. and by head, I mean a BVH which the JCW is not, its only very mildy ported on the exhaust. if you do end up with a BVH and Cam, youll definently need a tune and injectors. you also don't need a larger intercooler, the stock one is fine, if you really need to lower the IAT, get meth injection at this point. and could even potentially tune for that, and run the equivalent of 100 octance everywhere. after the pulley, getting HP per $ goes way up. gotta pay to play. and from what I understand the stock motor can handle roughly 330 hp crank. the weak point from what I understand are the rods then the pistons. starting with a turbo car such as a GTI its easier to get more power. superchargers are much harder to get easy power out of since its a fixed displacement. another option is to check out RMW, ive been following his rotrex build, granted this guy is going nuts to buts on this full caged mini, but that rotrex unit in a street car should pump out some serious work such as 300hp. the m45 is just too small of a unit to push those kind of numbers. ive only heard when people go turbo they use standalone ECU, but im sure with the right turbo selection, one that can spool at 2000-2500 rpm, the stock ecu may not mind it. but most people get one to spool around 3500-4000 for larger power numbers. granted that smaller turbo wont make as much power, but may still be able to reach 270-300 whp at like 20-22 psi. stock motor should be able to handle that decently. keep in mind, most of this is speculation, my plan is to go turbo at some point when my PTO gears give up, which im sure will be a few years down the road, but theres a guy in Peuto Rico that has a turbo r53, just saw a video posted of his car on LXM and it seems very nice. |
Originally Posted by NYMADMINI
(Post 4128289)
Hello all! I'm looking for input from people who have upgraded their R53's with either a sprintex supercharger upgrade (along with all the usual bolt ons) vs. a turbo conversion and does anyone make a turbo conversion kit for the R53 or are they all custom done? I'd rather stick with supercharging but I've heard some reliability issues with the sprintex units. I've owned lots of turbo cars but I love the way the supercharger winds up in the R53. Also, do both of these setups require fully built motors with forged internals and a new head (like RMW's "Jesus" head" or the JCW head) and if the motors are built is it possible to increase the bore from 1.6L to a 2.0L? I know many people increase to a 1.8. Thanks for all your answers. So you know I have an 06 R53 Checkmate with just about every bolt-on you can find outside of a methanol kit. Car makes around 210hp at the wheels on Heilx's dyno after Jan tuned it post adding 450cc injectors.
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Originally Posted by NYMADMINI
(Post 4128289)
Hello all! I'm looking for input from people who have upgraded their R53's with either a sprintex supercharger upgrade (along with all the usual bolt ons) vs. a turbo conversion and does anyone make a turbo conversion kit for the R53 or are they all custom done? I'd rather stick with supercharging but I've heard some reliability issues with the sprintex units. I've owned lots of turbo cars but I love the way the supercharger winds up in the R53. Also, do both of these setups require fully built motors with forged internals and a new head (like RMW's "Jesus" head" or the JCW head) and if the motors are built is it possible to increase the bore from 1.6L to a 2.0L? I know many people increase to a 1.8. Thanks for all your answers. So you know I have an 06 R53 Checkmate with just about every bolt-on you can find outside of a methanol kit. Car makes around 210hp at the wheels on Heilx's dyno after Jan tuned it post adding 450cc injectors.
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1.8L and 2.0L strokers are not crippled in any fashion. No idea why he would have said that, but there are a lot of them running around begging to differ.
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general rule of thumb : for 200-250 hp you are better off just sticking to the stock blower and doing head, pistons, cam, pulley, etc etc.
For 250-300, its about the same price to stick with a turbo or to do a turbo conversion. If you want above 300 you very quickly get into a game of the turbo being more cost effective, but the SC will still have better throttle response. Almost anything north of 260-275 you will benefit from having a stanalone (just for general reliability and driveability. The 2nd gen ViPEC ECU's (i series) are even OBD-II compatible and are possible to make emissions compliant if your state does testing. (as apposed to some idiots that drop WAYY to much time and money into twincharge setups like myself, but I enjoy the challenge and it keeps me busy in the colder months when I cannot / will not go hiking or wakeboarding as often :lol: ) |
Our stage 1 turbo kit just made 267hp on a dyno, on a bone stock r53. The car drives like it meant to have a turbo from factory. We are getting the stage 2 turbo kit tuned right now.
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Originally Posted by KinetechMW
(Post 4130454)
Our stage 1 turbo kit just made 267hp on a dyno, on a bone stock r53. The car drives like it meant to have a turbo from factory. We are getting the stage 2 turbo kit tuned right now.
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at 267whp on a turbo that is about what you could achieve with a simple JCW fuel injector upgrade, log manifold, nice littlw BW turbo (38-45mm turbo), throw on the base cooper water pump and alternator, make an adapter or weld on an adapter to the intake manifold for the cooper (or use the cooper intake manifold) and use a top-mount intercooler ala M7 style and you would be in good business for that power level :thumbsup: Stock bottom end would be just fine, only thing that may be good to change in the valvetrain would be exhaust valves (different material for the heat) and the cam :thumbsup:
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Originally Posted by soccerbummer1104
(Post 4131326)
at 267whp on a turbo that is about what you could achieve with a simple JCW fuel injector upgrade, log manifold, nice littlw BW turbo (38-45mm turbo), throw on the base cooper water pump and alternator, make an adapter or weld on an adapter to the intake manifold for the cooper (or use the cooper intake manifold) and use a top-mount intercooler ala M7 style and you would be in good business for that power level :thumbsup: Stock bottom end would be just fine, only thing that may be good to change in the valvetrain would be exhaust valves (different material for the heat) and the cam :thumbsup:
I believe this is the same guy on facebook that posted as well, apparently "all stock engine" as posted minus injectors which were medium, so 380cc? and another person did nearly the same, but achieved 315 hp with factory parts and ECU. with all that work, wouldn't you atleaste do a front mount intercooler? since the horns would be removed anyways. this is all making me want a turbo real bad |
you could, but it is more complicated than it would seem at first glance.
If you don't mind ditching your AC you can fit a front mount on the car, or you can shorten and thicken your radiator slightly and use a dual pass, custom fans etc and put the turbo intercooler on top. (bottom grill feeds radiator, top grill feeds intercooler) more than one way to skin a cat though... |
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