I agree with most of what you stated, Rafthos, but not the above quote. It is not a mute point - not to me anyway. I have the heat transfer hub on my MINI and I'm glad I do. I upgraded to the 19% and can switch pulleys now anytime I want to $65. I can even experiment with other sizes or go back to 15% for cheap if I feel the 19% is too much stress for the supercharger or engine. I'm glad I have the heat-transfer pulley and I would do it again on my next MINI. That is, of course, that there isn't a reasonable amount of evidence suggesting that it could be a bad idea - such as "compromising" or damaging the seal. So if Andy or anyone else can figure out either whether a correct install could cause this damage or what the odds are (is it unlikely, likely, impossible, possible, etc...) I'd like to know. Kudos to Andy for his questioning. Sometimes I too have no interest in Andy's thread or latest question, but then I just ignore that thread. But this one is a good one, IMO.

 

First i do not feel this thread was an attack on randy as he proposed, just a question, then later came a question why did randy's fail, I proposed an answer, not andy, and even stated it was a guess, then Randy gets upset, and i propsed several other opinions, on seal failure, PEOPLE get this back on track, this is not a thread to attack randy, it is thread asking a question about heat's effect on the seal, so if you guys what to hijack threads go make your own, nobody was attacking any body here, trust me i has been at Randy end of this at many a time, I m sure he is upset for he called me, but the intent of this thread was of not that nature, neither were my proposed explinations of his seal failure, agreed the point is almost mute now due to the taperbore pulleys now, but if it want to be discussed here it is discuss it, WHY does everyone always try and change the subject of threads, there is a little thing to the upper right for creating new threads, people use them................

 

I think determining how heat affects the seal on a heat on type pulley is a good idea, but who has the time to research this? It's not going to be proven with formula's alone. It's going to take testing and measuring and then formula's can be used to back up actual measurements. Unless someone can do computer modeling and input the actual supercharger materials into the computer maybe it can be estimated that way but who has the resources to do that? Doesn't make alot of sense to me to bother looking into it unless you are really bored or retired. As a consumer and someone who installed my pulley myself you look at the two products (heat on pulley vs taper bore pulley) and say; What pulley is less likely to cause me problems? What pulley is easier to install/remove? Then you pick the one that suits you. There are lots of people using the Heat on type pulley who didn't have failures yet and probably won't. Installed properly they probably won't have problems. But they stand to be more likely to cause problems. If you overheat the pulley you may be more likely to damage the seal. If you didn't heat the pulley enough and tried to install it and didn't get it on all the way and use a torch to heat it up on the shaft you may damage the seal. Many things can cause problems with the heat on type so what's the bennifit? I can totaly understand Randy's decision not to use them anymore not because they have proven to cause failure of the seal but because they are more likely to cause failure than the clamp stye.

 

Those who purport to be seeking data, facts, logic, numbers, truth… or whatever should really avoid using argumentative & negative language, otherwise it might skew the perspective of those following the thread. …We might actually believe the premise to be that of objectivity.

 

i do think it is a moot point, and here's why (by the way its "moot" not "mute&quot....

Randy's burning out of the charger with a heat-on pulley compromising a seal - that was an isolated incident - i haven't heard anyone else report problems of this nature with the heat-on pulley, so to those with heat-on pulleys: you have nothing to worry about.

2nd, Randy is so backed up on other projects, (i.e. updating websites, and testing newer products, dynos, pulley parties, etc), that this "experiment" might seem a little tedious and low-priority to a mini enthusiast such as myself and many others that are eagerly awaiting a professional opinion on another item. Not to take anything away from people like greatgro who are awaiting results from this. I just think there are other things that might have a higher priority on more people's lists....

but as was said earlier, even though many people still have the heat-on pulleys, now the bolt-on ones are out, and arguably they are the better sellers and what most people go for nowadays. As such, i feel more testing around these with different ECU combinations would be more important. I only say this b/c of the lack of reporting of seal-failure incidents. ONE incident out of everyone who has one cannot possibly be cause for alarm.

not trying to hijack the thread, just trying to show public interest in this....

 

ABTsportsline does make a good point though. It's true that Randy's case is the only one anyone has heard of so at the very least the seal shouldn't be a factor. I know, personally, I'm not worried. Carry on though...

 

@Andy

What is your theroy on why the sc failed?

 

>>i do think it is a moot point, and here's why (by the way its "moot" not "mute&quot....
>>
I thought it was moot, but when I typed it, it just didn't look right.

 

MrWhoa wrote:
No clue, could be any or all of the things RandyBMC mentioned, or something else altogether.

 

RandyBMC wrote on Feb 17, 2004:
Any progress on this in the last month?

 

Any updates on this? Any other failures out there?

 

Yes.

 

No.

 

I didn't see this question posed before but is there any way to CHECK that seal to see if it's leaking? You probably can't do anything about it but it would be nice to know before getting stranded.

Secondly, what does a new S/C cost?

I have the Helix pulley and it's almost exactly 1 year since install. So far so good!

-Jim

_________________
"Mjolnir" | DS/B MCS | Madison, WI

Madness Intake | Madness Swaybar | Helix Pulley | 17" Kosei K-1 Racers | GY Eagle F1 GS-D3| HSport Springs | RDR Control Arms

<IMG SRC="http://mcs.maximus-consulting.com/grillsmall.jpg"

 

>>Yes.

Care to elaborate?

--Jeff

 

>>>>Yes.
>>
>>Care to elaborate?
>>
>>--Jeff

Jeff,

I was being sarcastic with Andy. I don't think anyone has any information and no one is going to test this, unless Andy wants to. My guess is Randy is too busy, he said it was his opinion, the heat-on pulleys are really not an issue anymore and no one has had any further problems with them, so for anyone to spend time investigating this, is fruitless. So I don't think anyone is really going to respond with an update.

 

For the record, P&D manufactured and sold about 200 heat fit pulleys and I know Helix installed at least 50? manufactured by another source. The only reported supercharger failure was from the Randy case. Frankly, for a stressed product under development, we expected much more, maybe twice as many.