Ummm I can get the Magnaflow CB 16815 for $536.48. I can't see how the ABF is going to give anymore power than that for more than twice the price...

 

Your not going to make life easy are you? It's cool though, We don't mind the questions and know how it is when deciding what mods to place on our cars too.

The AP tuning software can disable the the code. With out it almost any catless DP will through a code with in 40-50 miles. We have yet to have any cat related codes show up running the maps written for cars with this exhaust. To add to the question of A/F, the tunes is slightly on the rich side. Not a lot, but just enough to provide some buffer for safety.

Lets be a little fair here. We always planed on getting dyno numbers and vids up. They were just not ready yet. However there was a request for numbers from a car with similar mods and the exhaust. Despite the fact it is the week end, I am at home and don't have charts on me, I was able to get one via email from that particular customer so there could be some perspective as to what one may expect. Vids and dynos will be posted. We just wanted to show one from a car that had only the exhaust on it. This has been difficult as every car we installed the exhaust on had other mods and no dyno history. Believe me we would like to give you as much incentive to go with this exhaust, but are asking for little patience. We will post better data soon.

That is some what correct. The base tune we had when tuning this car was still fairly new and not really up to par with what Alta offers now. This is why we had cobb tune the car and achieved the better numbers.

To comment on the second part, we ask consideration to be taken when comparing dyno numbers. Peak numbers alone don't always cut it. There is a widely known discrepancy in dyno readings between the mustang and dynopack dynos. Temp, humidity, and elevation play a factor in it too.

A lot of the comparisons seem to be being made between results from a JCW and those of a MCS as well. Peak psi on the current MCS maps we use is only 17-18.5. On a turbo that puts out less then the JCW already there should be an obvious expectation in numbers. Again dyno discrepancy may play some part here, but take a look at the dyno charts posted by other members with MCS's and make some comparisons to get an idea. Our cars are making upwards of 20 HP and any where from 5-10 lb ft more TQ then cars with similar mods. It may not seem like a HUGE difference, but on a 1.6 to make that much more power over another exhaust is big. Even some of the JCW's with similar mods are still making close to 20 HP less then this MCS.

Also take a look again at the graph we posted too. It says a lot more then just peak numbers. Torque peaks at 500-1000 RPM earlier then most of the other graphs up right now. It also stays close to peak farther though it's RPM range and drops off less towards the end. HP is also very linear and strong, even after taking some loss in peak power to improve the TQ power band. Prior to this adjustment this car hit up wards of 248 HP during tuning.

Now I know this may all may be considered irrelevant with out the hard data that is to come and that is understandable, but I hope it will give a better understanding of what we have done.

 

Yeah some graphs of a before and after on a stock mcs would give very gd indications on the improvements this gives.

Im skeptical on how much better this can be esp at this price. But am more than happy to be proven wrong!

 

Agree'd Once This Exhaust System Is Thrown On A Stock Car To See The Gains Solely On This MOD Then We Will See If It Is Worth The 1500... If You Guys Didn't Have All This Information To Share Why Did You Try To Push The Product On Us ?! You Didn't Really Expect The Mini Community To Jump On This Without Solid Proof Of Power Gains Did You ? All The Big Ball Hitters Like ALTA And RMW Show Graphs Of Power Gains When They Release Their Products. As Of Now Your Power Gains Are All Hear Say And If You Don't Start Proving Your Numbers Then Everyone On Here Will See Right Through This Over Priced Item And There Goes Your Sales Pitch.... Other Than That Looking Forward To See What You Guys Can Do...

 

Although I can appreciate the effort, that's one hefty price to pay for a very simple exhaust system. No catalysts means it should be even less expensive and without a resoundingly SWEET sound and good power delta, you may consider lowering the price. I mean this with the best of intent...

Of course, it should also be noted that the downpipe likely is where the power will be made. I would reason to believe that this exhaust, after the downpipe, is no different than any other 2.5" system. Please post up some high fidelity pictures and some sound clips.

 

Also why waste so much money building it, and polishing the entire thing? Why not just make it black and polish the tips? How many people go "hay lets lay on the ground and try to look at my really shiny exhaust" I basically have the exact same thing and i payed about 400 for it.

 

::ABF Tech Division Downpipe and Exhaust::

I have only had my MCS for Approx 2 and a half months and I got on modding it ASAP, just like i did with my previous BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Subie, ETC... counter parts. WHen I got the MCS I was going to go and just get generic products, but before I could go out and just buy some generic parts, I started falling in love with the vehicle in general. Yeah its not the size of my e90 M-Tech or the style of my e36 M3 and it would fit in the trunk of my Mercedes e350 Key to the Cure Edition, but it is what it is... a performance vehicle. I started doing some research about different products and items to let my MCS better represent me. Well right off the bat, I started talking to Alta, RMW, M7 and a few others. I was happy with what I was hearing from most people but I felt that I was being limited by having such a small selection of items. I kept looking and a member of this forum brought up ABF Tech Division. I called them and started talking to Dez and Mike from TD, and im glad I did. The customer support is excellent and their mindset is right where mine is, "lets make power and get these things on the track". What better company to produce products for my car, then a company that holds track records in Cali and in Nevada. So I dove in, I purchased the Turbo back exhaust and Cobb Accessport from them.

Verdict:
Tone at Idle:
Tone at throttle:
Tone at Cruise:
Quality:
Ease of Install:

I have had it on for about a month now and the tone is deep and throaty. It gets a little loud when you get on it, but what do you expect from a catless race exhaust. Installation was a breeze after I removed the heatshield. The quality is unmatched and I couldnt be happier with the product. I have photos of the product when I received it and when I installed it below. If you are looking for a high quality exhaust and great customer service this is the company and the exhaust to go with.

I thought it was pricey when I first received the price; however, when I started looking around and was planing to design my own exhaust and downpipe replicating the alta version the parts and tools to replicate would be pretty close to what i would pay to buy a quality exhaust. I hear a lot of people talking about price, but you have to look at your car.... It is a BMW, not a honda civic. Unfortunately for quality you have to pay, and I had to learn that the hard way in my early years.

Ill post Dyno results when I have my full stage 3 set up after I get back from my hospital rotation in VA. So expect some numbers end of April.

Damon Wilson
Deleo-Omnia Motoring
"As Easy as It Gets"











Installed:






Thanks Dez and Mike!

 

Cleaned the car and did a small shoot today - Pictures Posted in coupe talk

1 Month after install.













"do work"

 

Nice sales pitch but what good are dyno graphs AFTER your stage 3?

Oh, and if you came anywhere near $1500 trying to duplicate an Alta turbo back system, you were doing something wrong.

I can't quite understand why these guys would release this system to the forum scrutiny without taking the time to do a basic dyno that they could show everyone? How hard would it have been to simply add the exhaust to a MCS and do before and after dynos? Am I missing something here? As it stands now, it makes them look like they can't back up what they are claiming and in turn justify their much higher cost, pretty polishing of the system not-with-standing...

First impressions can be crucial in this limited market.

 

My original dyno is already on the forum you can look it up . as for the parts... overall it is about 600 dollars in parts but not good parts, ie. ebay products. then you have to buy a welder. 300-600 and then you have to buy a bender.. i think i found one for 150ish.. now mathematically im looking at 1050... then with time and effort we are looking a few hours... so easily we have 1500 work of work in one sitting. You seem to be pretty bold with your ability to produce products, as I am also, but when I look at my time and the effort i would have to put in putting a project like that together in the end it is just worth it to buy a good exhaust and not worry if your welds are going to hold or if the v bands you want to use are cheap or even how the overall performance of the item you just made is even going to work.

It wouldnt matter if i dynoed now because it is already partially modded. I have not had a stock MCS from the day I bought it and started modding two days after. So the end all be all goal is max HP. If the ABF Exhaust gets me where I want my numbers well then it works.

might I ask what you are running right now? The reason I cant get the stage 2 dyno is the small issue of me leaving wednesday to go work in a hospital for 30 days so by the time i get back my new parts will be in. if my FMIC is not complete by then i will go dyno with my generic stage 2 map and then again with the ABF Tech Division Map.

I feel like most peoples 1st mod isnt an exhaust because of the cost involved. Intakes, Tubes things like that are more practical. If you want to come here and help me take my mods off and just leave the exhaust on I can get you a exhaust only dyno sheet. If you want to pay for every pull on the dyno and my time to take off and reinstall parts i will give you dyno results for every part on the car. Im a consumer, just like the rest of these guys on here. Good products cost good money and coming from the BMW crowd the prices for any mods on the mini are pretty reasonable. Except maybe the AP... I wish it was 500 like my subie.

feel free to PM me about my experience with the exhaust so far. Right now with my current set up i am running 13.8 1/4mi on generic tune.

 

Excuse me? Are you some how affiliated with the company selling the exhaust? If so, I didn't realise that. I thought you were one of the early adopters. If you are affiliated with the company, then why would I have any obligation at all to help you with the dynos? If you are not affiliated, then my questioning of a lack of dyno results is not directed at you at all. It is up to the company selling their products to put forth a good effort to back up their claims, not mine. The fact that you plan on getting a dyno after your stage 3, is no help at all in determining if this exhaust lives up to their vaunted claims. As I said before, it would have been very simple for the company to do before and after dynos on an unmodified MCS and posted them along with their sales pitch. You still have not given a reason why that was not done, assuming you and the company are one and the same.

 

Its all good, sorry I didnt realize how new you were to this. Let me try a different approach. I see you are "planning" on getting a FMIC, Exhaust, Downpipe, Accessport... etc, etc...

Used 08 with JCW Exhaust set up... something like that.... The thing that would benefit you most would to be to give one of the guys at ABF a call. I dont know the specs of the exhaust but I know I am happy with the overall product. Call Riss Racing, Call Alta... so on and so forth, when you speak to a person you can listen in and read through the bull a lot easier then expecting to get all your answers from a forum. I hope your search for the "right exhaust" for you works out well; however, from reading some of your posts it seems as if you need to do a little more research on your own before you look to criticize any brand offered for mini.

Research will help you find all the answers you are looking for.

So how is work in the middle east? Iraq? What unit are you with?

 

Lol....this thread is comedy!



SO umm....still hasn't been said, why is this exhaust worth $1500?

 

So, didn't answer a single question I had. Typical, I guess you are shilling for this company. I'll mark these guys off my list now. Thanks.

 

Yeah, I really want to know but so far the comapny and its shills can't or won't answer. Typical really, make some claims but don't back it up except with pretty pictures and stage 3 mods?! What the good is that? If I am spending money on a product is it not expected that I be given an idea of what will be gained when using the product or am I being unreasonable? I mean it is only $1500 so maybe I am being unreasonable about this...

 

Wow,What a jerk.Sounds like we can scratch this exhaust off our list.



Review not complete, not one word about drone.

Kind of odd we learn of this exhaust just in the last few days,but this person has had it for awhile,but not one word before hand.

 

So, I can't criticize unless I do a "little more research" according to you? Great, let me know when you determine how much reseach I have done or must do, give me break... If you will read over the previous posts to mine, you will see that I am not alone in asking for dyno results on an unmodified MCS. Even the company admitted they didn't do it and were somewhat misleading but thanks for the pretty pictures, does that count towards my research quota? Woulnd't want to criticize until I have done the proper amount according to your standards, whatever those are.

 

Im not sure what you are asking? You want to know what a person that has this product thinks. I told you what I think about the product.

I guess the question is why did I go with ABF? Maybe?

I thought i made it relatively clear, but i will revamp it for you. I contacted ABF through a reference about engine management on this forum. After speaking with Dez a few times i was convinced that they had a solid product. I was very critical of the price of the alta also but as i looked around all the good brands were in the same price range of close to 1500 dollars. So the search began and ABF is what I ended up with.

I cant speak on the behalf of ABF but I feel the product is worth the value. The questions you have asked on a sunday when everyone is off can probably only be answered by a company that probably is not open on sunday. Like i said give a couple of these companies a call and get some info.

good luck

 

Yeah, I found that odd as well that there are 10 of these systems out there but not once did anyone pipe up about them until now. Like I said, first impressions are important.

 

You can follow my Side Company here:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=...44130312283485

Install was done on 26 Feb 2010.. Enjoy you can see my car and the other cars I work on there.

 

Lol I Feel Bad For This Company.... Feels Like Riss Racing All Over Again

 

I have been in sales (orthopedic implants joint replacements to be exact)
For 15 years with the same company I sell to surgeons, first impressions are everything, and I think the impression being made here is not a good one!

When presenting a product to one person or hundreds like this forum, it is paramount to make sure all ducks are in a row, pics, dyno graphs pre mod,
Post mod letting the numbers speak for themselves.

Going back to the 1st impressions posting wrong numbers, arguing with potential customers would be a total negative point in the sales pitch, a turn off, the customer 1. Won't trust you 2. Will think that the rep does not know everything that needs to be known about the product being presented!

My advice is to end this conversation gain all info that these informed customers are demanding and do another presentation another time
Right now you have lost your chance and the attention of all potential buyers

 

I agree with alot of the requests for before and after dynos on a stock MCS but if none of the first 10 exhausts were installed on a stock MCS then how about any turbo Mini at any state of mods. I assume their 10 customers all had some sort of exhaust on their Mini before buying the ABF exhaust so just do a before the ABF exhaust and an after ABF exhaust nothing else.

I can not tell if this exhaust is any good or not because we have no proof at this time either way but from my first impression and the response of the majority of posts I would say the introduction of this product is not been very well planned let's hope the actual product was given more thought than it's introduction.

 

I'm wondering the same thing... I just bought a nice high quality Ti exhaust for 750 (850 with tax and shipping). Weighs less, looks good, sounds good, etc.

Maybe more vendors need to start making more exhaust (and different types) so this inflation stops. Or the Mini community just needs more high quality vendors in general.

I'm sure it's extremely well made, sounds good and all that... but I would never pay $1500 for a SS exhaust. I'd just get DP and then an exhaust made out of aluminum with a magnaflow muffler Lightweight and serves it's purpose.

 

For those who are upset, confused or just curious we would like to apologize for any info that was misleading or seemingly not forth coming.

Our exhaust was unknown virtually to the entire mini community till it's offical announcemt was made here on NAM two days ago. The people that have the exhaust installed right now were introduced to it personally either during a visit to the shop or over the phone. If this is the first time any one has heard of it, it is because this has been the first post about it. Our choice to post was based on the overall satisfaction from the ones that own it. Their choice to post or not, or even be a member of a forum is exactly that, their choice.

The people that do own it were test subjects of a sort as well. Although we would stand by even the first one sold, we wanted to wait and makes sure people were happy with it prior to even bringing it up on a forum.

The O/P was made to be that first look at what we had done and offer. Most of the information was available to post so we felt like sharing it. Customers have been happy with it and have seen gains on the dyno so we had no problem saying it was something worthy of presenting to a larger group of mini owners.

The choice not to post graphs right away was made based on what we look for in graphs, clear gains. We expected many if not all members reading a graph to do the same. At the point the O/P was made a recorded dyno graph was not available that shows before and after gains from a stock MCS or JCW. We do have graphs from customer cars, how ever the parts were installed and then dyno'd. With out any thing to demonstrate a clear gain we chose not to post anything showing numbers or even mention the kind of gains we were seeing. The question of proof would have came up either way. So why waist the time showing it.

There was one graph posted and the reason explained a few times now. However i have no problem going over that again. It was put up upon receiving a request in this thread to show some sort of graph from a car with similar mods to another member's car. We provided a graph from a car with similar I/C, intake and tuning software plus our exhaust system. From that he could make his own compassion to his car. It was posted for that reason alone.

Officially no graphs or number claims have been made for this exhaust on a stock car. With that said I will repeat what has been mentioned in an earlier post.

Dyno charts from the same stock MCS on the same dyno will be posted soon showing before and after results. This will also be accompanied with a video to let members hear it installed. Look for this in about a week or so.

I will edit the O/P to to explain this as well and help others from possibly being mislead. However this will be the last time we openly explain this as we believe it has been thoroughly covered.

Aside from that we do appreciate the feedback, good or bad and are disusing some of the things brought up.