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-   -   Drivetrain New R53 A2A Intercooler from DoS (https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/drivetrain-cooper-s/196089-new-r53-a2a-intercooler-from-dos.html)

Mini'mon 09-03-2010 03:41 PM

New R53 A2A Intercooler from DoS
 
Hi All,

With the our latest R56 Intercooler development now completed, we've turned our efforts back toward the R53.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_mALekInWPUs/TI...28small%29.jpg

What you see in the picture above is the product of realizing that:

1) Water-to-Air intercoolers (W2A-IC's) don't have super-stellar recovery time after heat soak (parked for an hour after a hard run) on street driven R53's. W2A-IC's are great for track driven R53's, but you need to allow a slightly longer time for recovery when on the street.

2) The R56 is a much better candidate for a W2A-IC on the street and at the track. (We used our R53 research as our baseline and the R56's recovery numbers kicked its butt at the track and on the street -- Sad but true.)

3) We always knew that the R53's intercooler is in a crappy location, but we needed a way to cool the charge air effectively while creating a completely reversible, easier-to-do mod.

4) The GP intercooler works great, but we've always thought that there was a way to use a smaller volume to do the same amount (or more) of charge cooling.

5) Removing your intercooler to do minor maintenance (like changing your plugs) is (more than) annoying at times.


With these factors in mind we put aside all our R53 W2A-IC fun and embarked on the path of Air-to-Air intercooling (A2A-IC). This took-up the better part of this summer, but it was well worth it.

We ended up building an A2A-IC that gave us the performance that we were looking-for with quick recovery on the street and track.


How did we do it?

A) We did a TON of materials and suppliers research and found that copper has a thermal conductivity of 231 Btu/hr/ft. Aluminum has a thermal conductivity of only 136 Btu/hr/ft. This means that copper can conduct heat 59% more efficiently than aluminum.

B) We fabricated several core designs using copper fins, copper turbulators, and brass tubes with a very high copper content (85%). The space available for the IC limited us slightly, but we created a core that outflowed and has less pressure drop than the stock A2A intercooler and the GP intercooler.

C)We did a major study of the stock A2A intercooler and GP intercooler to see why they both worked fairly well given their constraints. Matt Richter ("Dr. O" of MC2 fame) always likes to point out how the intercooler tubes are crimped in a way so that the air is ramped to minimize disturbance. However, I noticed there are 2 major areas of disturbance at the corners of the endtanks where the air does not flow smoothly (to ease manufacturing).

With the factors above in mind, DoS designed special endtanks that have airfoils at the entrance and exit to each tube to promote laminar airflow. We also made the end tanks out of a high performance, high-temp resistant, engineering plastic to create contoured airflow surfaces and minimize heat soak whererever possible.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_mALekInWPUs/TI...6/IMG_8627.JPG

In 100 degrees F conditions, initial datalogging is showing 5-10 degrees F above ambient at cruise and 20-30 degrees F above ambient under full load/boost. (Better than what we expected). As an added bonus, our copper A2A-IC recovers from parked heat soak & after heavy load/high boost conditions 60-to-75% faster than DoS's Gen III R53 W2A-IC kit and 35-to-45% faster than a stock A2A-IC.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_mALekInWPUs/TI...28small%29.jpg

Projected retail pricing is ~=$900.00-to-$1000.00

I'll keep you posted on the details. These are projected to start shipping in October.

-Clint

FlzRider 09-03-2010 03:48 PM

Engineering plastic? More info please.....

Mini'mon 09-03-2010 04:18 PM


Originally Posted by FlzRider (Post 3124303)
Engineering plastic? More info please.....

It's similar to glass-filled nylon.

-Clint

scolburn79 09-03-2010 04:23 PM

Don't mean to sound neg, but considering 90% of the A2A IC out there range in price upto $600. You don't think you might be pricing yourself out of it at all?

JIMINNI 09-03-2010 04:34 PM

Wow! Very nice. Like to see more testing. How are the current diverters going to work with it?

davisflyer 09-03-2010 04:37 PM


Originally Posted by scolburn79 (Post 3124329)
Don't mean to sound neg, but considering 90% of the A2A IC out there range in price upto $600. You don't think you might be pricing yourself out of it at all?

Not if it works better.....

Mini'mon 09-03-2010 04:41 PM


Originally Posted by JIMINNI (Post 3124330)
Wow! Very nice. Like to see more testing. How are the current diverters going to work with it?

No diverter sits on top of the IC.

You only need to change the foam seal (on the plastic duct panel that mounts to the hood) to a new configuration that we've spec'd.

There will be some slight cosmetic changes on the production units that will have proper mating surfaces for the new foam seal configuration, but all else remains unchanged.

-Clint

scolburn79 09-03-2010 04:41 PM


Originally Posted by davisflyer (Post 3124336)
Not if it works better.....

I understand that, but 9 out of 10 people will be driven by the hip pocket. I hope I am wrong and it takes off though

soccerbummer1104 09-03-2010 04:43 PM

scolburn, it has a high content of copper, which is muuuch more expensive than aluminum. its not more expensive just because they think highly of themselves or anything, but it will mean that it probably will not sell in large numbers. But the people who want/need it will buy it.

scolburn79 09-03-2010 04:51 PM


Originally Posted by soccerbummer1104 (Post 3124343)
scolburn, it has a high content of copper, which is muuuch more expensive than aluminum. its not more expensive just because they think highly of themselves or anything, but it will mean that it probably will not sell in large numbers. But the people who want/need it will buy it.

I'm an Electrician, you don't need to tell me about the price of copper:lol: :lol: Hell, i've got more than enough scrap copper in the back of my car at the moment to be able to make 10 of them!!! If only I could melt it down and send it to him!!! But I will take it and get some $$$$ for it. Also, I didn't once say they think highly of themselves or anything like that. I just said that with that price they might be pricing themselves out of it. But I will say that if it works as good as they say it does then people will pay the extra for it. Lets just hope, with some more data, that this blows everything out of the water:thumbsup:

Mini'mon 09-03-2010 05:02 PM


Originally Posted by scolburn79 (Post 3124344)
I'm an Electrician, you don't need to tell me about the price of copper:lol: :lol: Hell, i've got more than enough scrap copper in the back of my car at the moment to be able to make 10 of them!!! If only I could melt it down and send it to him!!! But I will take it and get some $$$$ for it. Also, I didn't once say they think highly of themselves or anything like that. I just said that with that price they might be pricing themselves out of it. But I will say that if it works as good as they say it does then people will pay the extra for it. Lets just hope, with some more data, that this blows everything out of the water:thumbsup:

We'll make a believer out of you. :lol: Just give us some time.

scolburn79 09-03-2010 05:04 PM


Originally Posted by Mini'mon (Post 3124346)
We'll make a believer out of you. :lol: Just give us some time.

Cool, can't wait to see!!! Send one down under and I'll give it some testing. Just starting to come into summer here and it is going to be a hot one!!!

ViperGTS 09-03-2010 05:15 PM

:popcorn:

soccerbummer1104 09-03-2010 11:49 PM

im sure he will be glad to send one your way upon receiving payment haha.

newbs49 09-04-2010 01:20 PM

DOS

Is the IC coated in any heat dispersant? Also has there been more testing against the GP intercooler. I have a GP that I track and wonder if the $1000.00 is worth the gain. :sly:

Thanks and nicework!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jonnieoh 09-04-2010 03:07 PM

Looks like a nice product.

Achilless 09-04-2010 07:54 PM

:popcorn:

kapps 09-05-2010 06:29 AM


Originally Posted by Mini'mon (Post 3124323)
It's similar to glass-filled nylon.

-Clint

PPSF or Ultem?

LosOsos"S" 09-05-2010 08:38 AM

Nice product!
Can you please share a picture of the end of the core minus the end tanks?
Also a picture of the core side of the end tanks, so we can better see the diverters?
Thanks!

DICKS GARAGE R53 09-05-2010 08:57 AM

:popcorn:

Personaly I would like to see the same design cues you used (copper fins, brass tubes, and the airfoils) on a flow through design like M7's DFIC, That would be one that I would spend a grand on.:)

Nothing against your I/C, just dont care much for the 90 degree turn method of airflow.

Minian 09-05-2010 09:01 AM

Very Nice,
Is there any weight gain.loss using this config? I know it won't be much.
I also like your Coupe' sign, it is photo shopped right?

Mini'mon 09-05-2010 01:37 PM


Originally Posted by newbs49 (Post 3124775)
DOS

Is the IC coated in any heat dispersant? Also has there been more testing against the GP intercooler. I have a GP that I track and wonder if the $1000.00 is worth the gain. :sly:

Thanks and nicework!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Duly noted. The GP vs. DoS numbers are an important selling point and we're cracking on making that data more easy to digest for prospective buyers.

We will have a heat dispersant coating option available to customers that want it.


Originally Posted by DICKS GARAGE R53 (Post 3125127)
:popcorn:

Personaly I would like to see the same design cues you used (copper fins, brass tubes, and the airfoils) on a flow through design like M7's DFIC, That would be one that I would spend a grand on.:)

Nothing against your I/C, just dont care much for the 90 degree turn method of airflow.

This is a great question that comes up for us a lot at MINI festivals and events and from customer Q&A.

Direct Flow Intercoolers are interesting, and we looked to see if this type of design could be of benefit. However, you always need to take into account 2 factors:

1) The second half of any intercooler core does only 1/4 of the the work. Air gets warmer as it gets deeper into the core. The front half of the core does a great job, but the back half of the core suffers due to progressively increasing air temps.

2) Even though the airflow is 'direct', because this is a very thick core, there's a great amount of drag on the cooling air passing through. The drag on the incoming air actually increases the deeper that you go into the core.

When an exit scoop is involved, the first factor can likely be somewhat minimized, but that involves some substantial cutting to bonnet sheet metal.

True, MINI's GP unit and DoS are both asking the air to take a tumble as it enters the intercooler (but turbulence is not always the enemy when you're trying to cool surfaces). Additionally, the fact that the core is 1/3-to-1/4 the thickness of a comparable direct flow intercooler, has greater frontal surface area, and more charge air channels means better performance.


Originally Posted by Minian (Post 3125128)
Very Nice,
Is there any weight gain.loss using this config? . . .

Our R53 A2A-IC unit is 15 lbs lighter than a DoS R53 W2A-IC that's filled with coolant. The weight difference between the DoS A2A-IC + mounting hardware and the GP unit + mounting hardware + diverter is negligible.

OK, going to head out and enjoy some Labor Day Weekend fun.
Enjoy your day!
-Clint

Act_04 09-05-2010 02:31 PM

:popcorn:

newbs49 09-05-2010 08:19 PM

Thanks for the reply Clint.
Waiting for more data against the GP cooler!!!!!!

DICKS GARAGE R53 09-06-2010 08:51 AM

So why not a small grille mounted front mount?:lol:


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