Key Point:

This engine over revved due to going into a lower gear by mistake. Regardless of what modifications were done to the engine, the crank is trying to jerk the rest of the engine up to speed. The timing chain is the weak link (no pun intended) in the string of parts. The engine is protected from over revving on acceleration by the limiter. On a downshift there is no protection from over revving due to ineptitude. Unfortunately that is something that can happen to any one of us at any time.

So the whole engine needs to be replaced? Not just the damaged parts?

Have you seen the engine apart or did the dealer stop at the broken chain?

Often times with a timing failure like yours, you will have bent valves and dented pistons. Sometimes you get lucky and you just have bent valves. If you take the car to an Indy shop you might be able to just do a timing chain, tensioner, headgasket, head studs/bolts, and a valve job. I'd say around $4-5000 done right. If you broke off a valve it can ruin both the head and the piston. You won't know for sure what you're into until you take it apart.

Good luck!

Guess we know now, just how bullett proof the R-53 motor is. Also, we keep blamining Clubmamut here, but he said that he bought this car from his now laughing, full of advice brother. Now let's ask, just how many times did his brother over rev this little beast? If, in deed the over revving the engine is the real culprit, maybe his brother should accept some of this responsibility. Just a thought.

well they stopped at the timing chain and said valves 1 and 4 are bent. I will need a new engine.

a friend blew up his 2004 jcw 10,000 for new motor,,, time to step up to the plate. every thing you've done so far at the dealership, there is a computer record of ( everything )!!!!!!!!!!!!! re flashing is a waste of time!!!!!!!!!!

This will not help you as far as warranty claims go. Yes your tune will be back to stock but the rev records are still there. If the tune raises your rev limit ,as most do ,then there will be a record of you reving higher than stock on more than one occasion . This is proof enough that at some point the ECU has been tampered with and a dealer COULD deny the claim based on this alone .

Randy
M7 Tuning

The reason the dealership only wants to put a new engine it the car is liability reasons. If the dealership rebuilds the old one then now they and not Mini are responsible for the rest of the factory warranty. The reman crate motors that come from the manufacturer are a complete engine with new everything (turbo, alternator, wiring, sensors,eveything) so that they leave as little to chance while being reinstalled by the dealer since now Mini is again covering the warranty. To be honest with you guys, at least from what I experience with the Porsche dealership I work at, most techs nowdays are young and have limited experience/training and just replace parts and do not possess experience of the mechanics of the older days who had to diagnose problems. Good independant shops are where you find guys who can rebuild this engine right if you choose that route. But that being said, you will have no warranty on the engine of this car anymore where as buying a new reman engine from Mini you should be covered for the remaining of the factory warranty.

It is good to have a viewpoint from someone on the " inside " with regards to this issue. Dealerships make money on the service side of things not the new car sales. Anything they can do to increase the bottom line there is what they will do . It is much faster to slip a new engine in than rebuild one and time is money . Not to put down the younger generation of mechanics but they are taught to solve problems as fast as they can and move on to the next one. Unfortunately some take short cuts that are not in the manual as such. It is a common technique ,which has actually been mentioned on this very forum many times , that when faced with any sort of engine issue to re flash the car back to stock to make sure they are starting with a clean slate so to speak. In theory it is a good thing unless of course you have a tune on your ecu. Without even knowing it was there it is erased and the stock BMW code put in place. Now this won't raise any red flags with regards to warranty issues in itself ,I am just saying that this is something that happens frequently.

Randy
M7 Tuning

The overreving of a motor has nothing to do with modifications. I owned a 1995 BMW M3 and at 110mph missed the shift from 4-5th and hit 2 for just a brief second, but that was all that was needed to bend 23 valves and brake one off the bounced around in the cyclinder. It almost put a hole through the block and took out the piston. I had to buy a new engine. BMW does not cover mechanical over revs. Porsche is the only company that I have ever heard of replacing an engine under warranty for that. The really want to keep you as a client unlike most companies who could care less.
My point being that a collision engine (where the valves and piston can touch) will have big problems with an over rev. The valve springs on any engine are only designed for a set RPM and when that RPM is exceded then they float and when valves float, the next time the piston comes up you have a collision. Usually you get bent valves first from an over rev which then caused the chain to break. I wouldn't say the engine isn't bulletproof from this one tread since we haven't heard of any other chains breaking.

I talk to my SA before I make any mod to get the OK from him it won't effect my warrantee...but I still accept the fact that there is always the possibility this won't matter and I could be screwed if something goes wrong...Something you HAVE to accept when even slightly modifying any vehicle.

I can promise all of you that you couldn't add enough bolt on parts and re-flashing to stress out the chain to break. The way you make stock chains brake is by drastically adding resistance to the drivetrain like adding really stiff valve springs for a very high RPM motor. Look at the Honda crowd for proof of this, you have guys running 600-700 hp turbos or 13,000 rpm NA motors on "stock belts", not chains. Miss shiffting and shocking the chain is the only thing the OP could have done himself to brake the chain,not a re-flash. Other things that can definitely make a chain brake are tensions not working, mis-alignment and valve train getting caught and causing a sudden stop. I wonder if the dealership actually found a broken chain or they just assumed that and ran with it. We have guys here running dedicated track 944 turbos making 450-500hp on stock rubber belts and I have never heard of a belt braking unless it was a very high mileage car or they had the rollers or water pump sieze up.
Please don't feel that this one car is reason not to do any modifications to your own car. This car is truly a rare and odd set of circumstances that do not reflect the reliability of aftermarket or the Mini engine itself. Just make sure you grab the right gear before you let out the clutch!!!!

Thank you Jengland.

Still, doing mods to a "under warranty" car you may run into problems taking it to the dealer Also after reading all this, i'm glad my head is rated to 10.5k rpms and only redline it to 7.5k

Not RMW's R56 tune. There's very little reason to raise the rev limit on this car.

However, if they have record of boost levels that the car has seen...that will be a dead give away.

Everything is recorded . Seeing higher boost may lead them to think you have possibly done some hardware changes IE: hybrid turbo in addition to a tune . They don't want to give anything away and they have all the tools necessary to see that it doesn't happen often. None of this matters as long as you go into this knowing that there is a possibility that you may be buying a new motor such as the OP will most likely have to do. You have to pay to play.

Randy
M7 Tuning

Randy

When will M7 come out with the low profile scoop in carbonfiber ?

We just switched to a new composite shop so anything is possible but I know it will take a few weeks to get them up to speed on our present offerings . Perhaps give the office a call in a month or so and see what is in the works .

Randy
M7 Tuning

the m7 fiberglass one i have now fits so bad i wont put it on the car.

Wholesale was $7000 for a new motor? They quoted me $9000 (retail) for a new motor but I was able to get it for $4000 (wholesale) with the core returned. If you are in FL I know a shop that would swap the engine for under $2500.

I agree... we've all been going back and forth as to why it could have happened. Even if it was over-revving, it's still a rarity... people miss gears all the time.

Bottom line, this is still not common. The R56 has been out for 4 years, I don't know of 2 people that have broken timing chains.

Hope you find a new engine or head (see next answer).

Good luck, hope you get it fixed soon.




One question.... why do you need a new engine? If the valves are bent, unless they smashed the pistons, you should be able to put on a new head.

I'm thinking a performance head but replacing the head anyways.

Mark

PS. If you can get away with just a head and don't want to spend the money on a performance head, there has been a few people that have replaced their heads on here, maybe you can find a take-off.

I would get this car out the dealership and into a independent shop and get a second opinion.

That's what the dealer said, "you'll need a new engine. The timing chain snapped and valves 1 and 4 are bent."

When all said is done the last thing i'm doing is taking it to get it rebuilt with stronger internals and bigger turbo.

I'm still hoping for warranty work

Seriously, you need to verify from them EXACTLY what is wrong. Let me explain something about dealerships I have learned from over 25 years in the automotive business.

Dealerships have customer satisfaction indexes. (CSI) The dealers that receive the best CSI ratings from customers are the ones that get first picks for certain colors, models, interest rates, bonuses, prestige, etc, etc...

IF the dealer installed a head and later on you have a problem and have to return the car to repair the same original problem, their CSI rating goes down.

Point is, it's in the dealerships interest to sell you a whole engine for several reasons.

1) They sell more parts and labor.
2) If it was under warranty, they make more money per hour. (warranty rates are usually 30-50% higher than regular labor rates. The ones that get screwed are the techs because though the manufacturer pays a higher "per hour" rate, the times are cut severely.)
3) Odds of you complaining you have a problem are slim, they have essentially eliminated anything to do with the original complaint because they replaced the entire engine, not just a head.

My suggestion is to find out exactly what is damaged. If the valves are bent and DID NOT squish the piston tops (and even at that, a tiny ding can be neglible and reused) you could get away with only a head. A far price difference between a head and entire engine.

HTH's,

Mark

Wow sucks dude... has anybody else has experience with habberstadt mini in huntington? That would be the closest mini dealer to me and i'm looking into putting in a catback on my mini, do you think that would void the warranty?