It sounds like you have some third-hand info... i know exactly which car you're talking about.. here's the whole story.
-Customer B in Phx bought the car from a guy Tucson who beat the hell out of the motor. It has AEM (Stand alone computer, and a RX6 Turbo kit running 91 Octane).
- Customer B brought the car to us to remove the AEM so he can pass emissions. We took the AEM off, reinstalled the stock ECU with the original factory rom to pass emissions. Due to the bigger turbo, we had to turn the boost level down to 9psi so he can on pump gas.
- We told the customer to get it pass emissions, then bring it back so we can tune it. Customer then sold the car and never brought it back for the tune.

- A year goes by, a new owner in Phx bought the car, run it on pump gas and threw a rod. At what boost level he was running at, that's anyone's guess.

So you're concluding that b/c we were the last person to touch the car, somehow it was our "tune" that caused his car to throw a rod?

If you don't feel comfortable bringing your car to us, then that's cool. it's a free country... but make sure you get your FACTS straight before making any accusations

 

I knew somebody was on a 'fishing' expedition. If you have something to say, just come directly and say it... we don't have time to play little mind games... geesh...

 

? What is that supposed to mean?

 

..

 

Mike...hope you have those gucci 550cc injectors come April. Cos once , your ECU flash tool (with datalog) is up and running..

I WANT IT (and do include the injectors too)!!!

Seeing the numbers after you tune a car iin the US is making me loooose my patience...my lil mini needs your tuning magic...

 

It means you should have just come out and say that you heard about the Evo in the first place.
Instead of making Mike and Jay have a tuning class in the middle of this thread.

 

Ok? I apologize for not bringing it up sooner? I just wanted to gauge how they would respond instead of outright saying: OMG YOUR TUNE BLEW UP AN EVO LOLOLOL U SUCK!!!1111one. But you're right, I should've done that in the beginning...





Anyways...I was always under the impression that advancing timing would increase peak horsepower, but decrease peak torque. So in that sense, retarding the timing will increase torque, and decrease horsepower. Meaning that advancing/retarding the timing will shift the power band. (One goes up, the other goes down) Obviously the previous statements do have a limit.

 

I know you guys have built many strong Evos in the past, so I'm not negating your past accomplishments at all.



HOWEVER, the answers I'm getting from you, you being the tuner, really sounds to me like you guys have no idea what you're doing. The fact that you're telling me to deduct the delta of E85 fuel (23whp 11wtq) to get the same results for 91 Octane is something that ricer fan boys will tell me. The information I'm being given is just like some of the customers I deal with in the clutch industry. The information fed to me throughout this thread from you guys is similar to when I ask a customer how much power they are producing and they feed me these numbers with confidence based on a similar chart:

RSX Type-S Stock (200 HP to the flywheel)

-Intake (Advertised 10HP gain)
-Headers (Advertised 15HP gain)
-Cat-Back Exhaust (Advertised 15HP gain)
-Test Pipe (Advertised 20 HP Gain)

260HP.

FYI, you don't need to feed me information about Octane rating, I know exactly how Octane works. I've built several engines, some of them race engines requiring high octane fuel. Researching Octane had become a necessity for me. Look at my past threads, I always research, test, and come up with my own conclusions. However, the information that you guys are providing me have been one contradiction to the next.

If you guys are having difficulties trying to figure out where you're screwing up, feel free to ask me and I'll highlight it for you.

 

I see where ninjlao is coming from, power gains made via upgrades are not completely linear. In other words a head that makes 30hp at 10lb's of boost on a car with a set of header, would not do the same on another car with no headers and 5lbs of boost. We all know that is true the majority of the time.

So in that regard the most I can see MYSELF taking from this is the difference between the start and each respective point as a whole. I cant accept that part X makes Y horsepower based on these results alone. The only way to be "sure" of that would be to buy the part in question and make sure it goes on a car with all the same mods shown here at whatever the given "stage" is.

I'm not arguing "yourz dynoes is broeked!1!!", or that you parts dont make power (they clearly do), hell I am not really trying to argue anything. I'm just suggesting that part "x" is going to behave different ways under different conditions, which seems like a fair, and hopefully non abrasive, conclusion. That is what people looking at this need to consider.

 

Yes, the volumetric efficiency is changed by things like an intake, header, camshaft, head, pulley. Mixing and matching of parts would give different outcomes of performance.

Mynes is basically showing "stages".. It would be very time consuming to try A and B with X and Y then change it to A and X only then B and Y only.

I think their test method is very good and is honest as it gets. I'm glad they are even doing it at all, nobody else steps up and even shows real dyno information for their parts that they manufacture.

 

Right-On SOMEGUY "CHOOSE YOUR POISON"

The MINI performance market is extremely small if you haven't gathered that yet compared to everyone else. If you look at for instance GM LSx (LS1, LS2, LS3, LS6, LS7, and LS9) performance parts they are like leaves on trees or in certain areas pine needles so who knows what will give what for performance except for you to understand what the causes and effects and in cases the certain sacrifices that go along with whatever your trying to build.

Thats why you should say "Choose your poison". Get these parts for top-end hp but sacrifice low-end torque, Get these parts for an all-rounder, and then Get these parts if you want low end grunt and a bit of drop off on the top end.

 

If you noticed one of my very first questions to them was how their header would perform on 91 Octane. A simple test would've suited me just fine, but the fact that they consistently dodged my question was where I began to question their methods.
Alta shows dyno charts for their parts, Thumper shows a dyno with a few bolt-ons to theirs, RMW in my opinion does the best job showing dyno charts and keeping updates for their parts. Even M7 stepped up to do a wind tunnel test after numerous debates about their aero parts began to raise questions as to the effectiveness of their splitter and spoiler.

In regards to the underlined section...where have you been all this time? Another thing to ask is, what constitutes "real" dyno information. Anyone can argue that another person's dyno is calibrated incorrectly, but that's a very hard thing to back up which is why people ask for the delta. But when you're told to subtract the delta to find the performance value, it's the same information that knock off companies give time and time again.

 

I urge you to reread the past couple pages and get your own facts straight... Mind you it was only 2 days ago that Mike and Jay continually answered your questions to find out you were just "testing" them... You want to find out what the MegaMini Header will do on Pump gas RIGHT NOW, by all means, get the necessary parts and means to do it and please share with us as they have been so generously sharing. If thats not your cup of tea, cool, its not for most... but this continuous multiple questioning to throw everybody off into believing that Mynes is trying to hide something is quite manipulating. Theres good information here, and willingness to provide more within reason... Please don't ruin it for people who enjoy learning.

 

I think it's the exact opposite...you are the one that has no idea...

Then by all means, start your own thread...and try to catch up with what Mike has done so far.

You have got to be kidding me...you are an expert MINI tuner now?


Mike is not here to satisfy your specific test requests...and I don't see them dodging any of your questions.
I see them wasting a lot of time answering your questions that apparently you already have the answers to.


And there it is...the truth as to why you are in this thread.



Right on.

 

Haha here it is, the fan boyism comes out. I mention the name and I'm automatically associated with them. Kudos to you sir, I must be a super spy infiltrating the core of this thread to bring about it's destruction.


And please quote me where I have been mislead in ANY of my posts. I don't design parts, so on that account I do applaud Myne's as they have access to resources I do not. However, there is a very basic understanding when it comes to tuning, yes it must be adjusted to each vehicle but there is ALWAYS a foundation. You saying that tuning for the MINI is unlike any other vehicle is laughable. Please feel free to exit this thread whenever.

I merely asked for a tune on 91 octane with his parts so that I may see the delta that they have been so vigilant to deny me. They said tuning on E85 requires injectors and more fuel, now that may be just a small part, but for the sake of the masses can they just convert it back to 91 octane to finish all testing purposes until the very end?

And FYI Partsman, the only parts on my car happen to be 2 Alta parts and a Cravenspeed Pulley. But you're absolutely right, anyone that questions another vendor must be working for someone else right?

 

Come on man why you gotta go their ? He made a statement that RMW tests parts along with others. It's been true since product one for RMW and will never end. Don't worry man ninjlao isn't a company spy .

Don't make me call you a fan boy boy now Joaquin .

I like that Mynes can tune for E85 but it should have been last or in another thread. It would have mad the tests better for most to understand.

Joaquin, you are a funny guy and I do respect your opinion. You better be careful though. Behe is going to be mad now that you jumped on a new bandwagon



Longboard

 

OK, I'm not sticking up for Mynes, but have you considered that they're very busy getting ready for AMVIV and trying to get some of this other stuff out of the way before they go. Maybe they haven't had the time to dyno on 91 octane. Hindsight is always 20/20, and maybe they got ahead of themselves by going E85 first. Me personally, I would have dyno'd on regular 91/93 octane, then gone E85 toward the end to show it in that light...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have never seen RMW re-dyno a car with a different variable (ie. going from 93 to 91 octane) just for one person. Usually, one of his customers will come out of the woodwork and show their dyno that usually conforms to what a person is specifically asking.

For me and others, when they say "you can expect a loss of approximately XX hp/ XX tq by dropping from E85 - whatever" that's usually good enough for the masses. It was for me. It puts me in the ballpark. I have repeatedly asked Jan/RMW what X mod might do on my car and he gives me an idea. Nothing specific. They have given you an idea as well.

Just my opinion. Not being harsh, just trying to shed some light.

 

Buy my intake off eBay it'll add 15 horsepower.


Not quite the same effect right? EXACTLY. When someone tells you to deduct the delta to get the horsepower rating, especially if the timing has been advanced to get full benefit of available octane, it's pretty ridiculous. Another thing I noticed is the 170whp on a bonestock Mini. Correct me if I'm wrong but the advertised power to the CRANK is 168.

There was an article a while back on Motoring File (some of you may know what I'm talking about) where they had a dyno day, 3 of them were bone stock R53s. Surprise, surprise all of them dyno'd around ~150whp. Taking drivetrain loss into account that's pretty accurate (11-12%), yet they want me to believe that their MINI, strictly due to a "strong motor", can somehow have 192 HP (170WHP) to the crank? On top of that they are able to pull out an extra 21whp, putting it at ~214 HP to the crank. So without running any extra boost, any cams, stock headers, stock intake, stock EVERYTHING except for the tune, this vehicle is faster than a JCW?

Skillet, the basic idea of tuning is that advancing timing will increase HP and decrease TQ. What they said was to deduct the delta (23 WHP / 11TQ) to figure out what kind of power my car would make. That's kind of ridiculous don't you think? Will they ever update the delta? Are they expecting me to believe that even after they put a head onto their vehicle that the delta between 91 Octane and E85 is going to remain 23WHP and 11TQ?

The biggest problem I have, and this is the truth, is that NAM is full of people who don't think for themselves. Sorry if that offends you, but it's true. Most of you guys expect this information to be accurate and informative. Please do some testing on your own and think for yourselves! Question everything! I'm being put in the spotlight for questioning a vendor, and all the haters come out, but you know what? If I can get answers that satisfy me then I can look towards a product that I'm willing to buy.

 

I hear what you're saying, Brian...but you have got to admit, the effort that ninjlao has put into his posts just to call out Mike about an Evo that exploded, is kind of ridiculous.

I know my posts come across as a fanboy for Mynes...but for ninjlao to come in here and put Mike through the ringer just because of what he "heard" is not cool.
Mike has a pretty decent thread going here...if ninjlao had issues with Mike's tuning he should have come right out and said it to begin with, or called/pm'd Mike.

True..it does confuse things a little.

Where the hell do you find these pics?

I think John will understand...I haven't jumped off his ship, and I do still talk to him once in a while, he is busy as hell down there.

Just so that you know...I meant no disrespect to RMW...we already went through that on the phone.
It's just that with some of the stuff ninjlao posted...makes you want to say, hmmm.

 

I understand where you're coming from, but I take everything with a grain of salt. I know my car isn't going to produce the same #'s as yours or others. I have not read the Motoringfile article that you speak of, but if my memory serves me correct, Tuls had a high HP factory car (bone stock I think it was in the same HP range as Mynes'). This isn't a MINI only thing either. When I was frequent on the VW forums, they had the same result. 1 stock car, would dyno completely different than another...

I do see where you're coming from, and to think back when I was a wee young boy, I put a mod list together and added up their "claims" and couldn't believe what such few $$$ would net me HP wise

 

The fact that Mynes started off with E85 is pretty much bringing something new to the table for the MINI performance community. Like other makes there is always going to be someone who will bring something new to the table great example a local speed shop here in Kansas called House of Boost did something that was considered UNPOSSIBLE.

They took a brand new G8 GT first thing they did was plumb for intercooler and then they bolt two Self-contained Variable-Vane Aerocharger (Turbo) to the stock exhaust manifolds. Then tuned it and at full boost(22psi IIRC) on e85 it was making 637whp and 720wtq. This was all done without upgrading internals, transmission, rearend, or weight reduction. If you search for Worlds Fastest Pontiac G8 you will find videos of it running 11.1@130 on 14psi which made 603whp/698wtq.

 

You guys are too funny. We will continue to do what we do and all the BS goes out the window. Some individuals are getting butt hurt and scared that competition is coming along (i.e. buying new software to keep up)

None of us bought RMW into this thread, only if a car that we tuned has RMW parts, and we state that mod or parts for reference to the dyno sheet. We don't tell our customers to buy our parts only, if someone wants RMW, Alta, M7, or who ever parts... We tune their cars of what ever they have. Not going to hate on some other vendor's parts. Seems like that goes on a lot of this forum, and really funny. Particular to one vendor that everyone notices.

And ninjlao: As Mike said, you need to get your facts straight about a car that has nothing to do with MINI cars of any kind. The customer ask us to put a EVO car back to stock. A year goes by without any problems and then he sells it. Your buddy buys it, looks under the hood and see a big turbo and turns the boost up without getting it tuned. Not our fault or the person who sold him the car. Case closed on that one. And BTW, the person who blew up his car didn't even know the difference between a SHORT Block and a LONG Block... that should tell you something there. If you want to find that quote on evoM, go right ahead. We are a vendor on there too

 

You are correct about chris's car it was a "Wednesday Build" just like the Mynes car.

 

I don't understand why you and Mike keep going back to the Evo... I don't know the guy that owns the Evo, I only heard about it. After hearing about it, I wanted to pick your brains to kind of figure out how well you guys know your stuff. Never did I once claim I knew the guy with the Evo, the Evo topic merely sparked my interest.

In regards to the people who support E85, props to you E85 is a cheap green gasoline with a high octane rating, no one is refuting those facts. What I am questioning is why they are telling me that the delta will remain static throughout testing purposes between 91 Octane and E85. Yes E85 makes power, no one is arguing that and that's not what I've been arguing either.

To everyone else, please learn to read my posts THOROUGHLY before throwing stones, okay?

I want to know why Mynes believes the delta for E85 will remain 23 WHP and 11 TQ regardless of what is going to be put on their vehicle.