Drivetrain Helix Stepped Core Intercooler - Real testing, Real results
2nd Gear
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Have you done any testing to determine heat soak vs. time?
Helix R56 Stepped Core Intercooler
Core Design
Prior to the 335i and the R56 Mini stepped core design you had the option to either go Taller or thicker with the cores. In my design process I measured the captive areas in the front of the bumper in both depth and height and went about designing an intercooler that took up all of this area. The end result is an intercooler with 53% more frontal area as well as 50% more core volume. now about the core, we were not constrained to an off the shelf core in regards to ambient and internal fin count as we custom spec'd the core to this application. the core in the Helix FMIC is a single unit stacked up to our specifications in regards to ambient and charge row height and internal and external fin count. since our core has more volume I could increase the internal fin count to remove more temperature and still meet the targeted air flow and pressure drop for this application. as you see by the AIT data logs the intercooler works amazingly well.
Endank design- all endtanks are not created equally, air likes to flow in a smooth curved radius as you can see the Helix FMIC has rounded endtanks that are cast.
Install:
Fits in stock location- YES
requires no cutting,removal and/or permanent modification- Yes
Design:
More core volume than stock- Yes 50%
More Ambient face than stock- Yes 53%
More charge rows than stock(5)- Yes 12
Bar and Plate construction- Yes
Performance:
STOCK turbo outlet temperature 245 degrees F(estimated using a 65 degree ambient and 65% compressor efficiency at 15 psi
Temp drop from 245f to 111f(peak temp) in 4th gear run = -134f degree drop
HELIX TEST turbo outlet temperature 253 degrees F(estimated using a 71 degree ambient and 65% compressor efficiency at 15 psi
Temp drop from 253f to 89f(peak) in 4th gear run = -164f degree drop, 21% better cooling than stock
AIT temp- 30 degree drop over stock
pre and post intercooler temp drop- 164 degrees F
Intercooler efficiency- 80% - 21% improvement in efficiency over stock(59%)
Core pressure drop spec is .5psi at 250hp(400cfm) airflow
Core Design
Prior to the 335i and the R56 Mini stepped core design you had the option to either go Taller or thicker with the cores. In my design process I measured the captive areas in the front of the bumper in both depth and height and went about designing an intercooler that took up all of this area. The end result is an intercooler with 53% more frontal area as well as 50% more core volume. now about the core, we were not constrained to an off the shelf core in regards to ambient and internal fin count as we custom spec'd the core to this application. the core in the Helix FMIC is a single unit stacked up to our specifications in regards to ambient and charge row height and internal and external fin count. since our core has more volume I could increase the internal fin count to remove more temperature and still meet the targeted air flow and pressure drop for this application. as you see by the AIT data logs the intercooler works amazingly well.
Endank design- all endtanks are not created equally, air likes to flow in a smooth curved radius as you can see the Helix FMIC has rounded endtanks that are cast.
Install:
Fits in stock location- YES
requires no cutting,removal and/or permanent modification- Yes
Design:
More core volume than stock- Yes 50%
More Ambient face than stock- Yes 53%
More charge rows than stock(5)- Yes 12
Bar and Plate construction- Yes
Performance:
STOCK turbo outlet temperature 245 degrees F(estimated using a 65 degree ambient and 65% compressor efficiency at 15 psi
Temp drop from 245f to 111f(peak temp) in 4th gear run = -134f degree drop
HELIX TEST turbo outlet temperature 253 degrees F(estimated using a 71 degree ambient and 65% compressor efficiency at 15 psi
Temp drop from 253f to 89f(peak) in 4th gear run = -164f degree drop, 21% better cooling than stock
AIT temp- 30 degree drop over stock
pre and post intercooler temp drop- 164 degrees F
Intercooler efficiency- 80% - 21% improvement in efficiency over stock(59%)
Core pressure drop spec is .5psi at 250hp(400cfm) airflow
I'm not doubting that Helix's, Forge's and Alta's FMICs all provide some real improvements, but there is probably more value to be gained by further testing.
Thanks and Happy New Year,
Jeff
'98 Mini
'08 MY/BK MINI S
'02 PY/CINN M3
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Cooler air vs rpm is valuable data, but I was wondering what the steady state delta (outlet temps) is for the stock FMIC vs. Helix's. I suppose that this could be measured by placing the car on a dyno (with hurricane fans to simulate the car moving down the road) at a steady speed for say 10 minutes. My thought is that this could provide additional "real world" data of how efficient your intercooler is?
I'm not doubting that Helix's, Forge's and Alta's FMICs all provide some real improvements, but there is probably more value to be gained by further testing.
Thanks and Happy New Year,
Jeff
'98 Mini
'08 MY/BK MINI S
'02 PY/CINN M3
I'm not doubting that Helix's, Forge's and Alta's FMICs all provide some real improvements, but there is probably more value to be gained by further testing.
Thanks and Happy New Year,
Jeff
'98 Mini
'08 MY/BK MINI S
'02 PY/CINN M3
heres an independant datalog of the 335i intercooler run through the gears, as you can see it really keeps the temps in check. the R56 FMIC is of the same design so its results should be similar to this. FYI in comparison tests our intercoolers outperform the competitors hands down so we fully WELCOME any head to head testing
Last edited by Mark@Helix; Jan 1, 2009 at 11:13 AM.
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
I apologize for subjecting everyone to a reply, but I wish to have a final word, as I don't believe Ryan is quite accurate in his assertions. All are free to make up their own mind, and I won't say more.
It was genuine request for specifications using a simple play on the original post - if you regard it as cynical, well, what can I say?
I work in engineering. All numbers are subject to interpretation, cumulative error, rounding, etc. I was making a joke. It was certainly not malicious. Anyone can respond anyway they want, but perhaps there was a better way to convey a lack of appreciation for my attempt.
Trolling? 
Give me a break.
Which one was the hissy-fit post? The one where I first realized Helix was offended and immediately apologized, both publically and through pm to both posters? Or perhaps the one I posted a week later after no response. It sure didn't take any time at all for them to respond to the posts, so I don't buy the holiday excuse.
Aren't you doing the very thing you accuse me of - bashing someone you don't know - claiming to "know" my intentions, discredit me and paint me as a "troll"? Valuable and honest as they may be, people skills need work.
When I asked Alta for the very same data, they were very professional in their reply and even summarily posted the info on their site for all to see. I was pleased at the data helix was posting until the anonymous post insulting me for trying to be funny. I apologized. I later expressed my displeasure at the individual who flamed me and determined I did not want to do business with such an individual, and I said so. I gave them more time to reply than it took them to answer any of my posts before I said anything.
If all that make me a jack**a and a troll in everyone's eyes then I'm sorry, but so be it. As I said, I won't reply further or return to this thread. A couple of parting words of advice for Helix: first - lighten up. Second - take a little more time to think and understand potential customers before ripping them a new one, instead of going off half cocked because of what you think they meant.
Helix asked for specific requests, and followed up with acceptable answers. Your rebuttal was this:
If you were trying to be funny, you weren't. Helix isn't hiding being an anonymous mask, like you assert, they're defending themselves and their hard work on their new intercooler from your trolling attacks.
Give me a break.
If you were genuinely interested in their intercooler, there wouldn't be the tone of remark you were making. We all know you're not going to be their customer. If I were still in automotive aftermarket sales, I wouldn't want you as a customer, as it's clear you'd rather grind your axe than be satisfied with the answers to the questions you asked. You think Helix is being ungracious because you give them a hard time after answering your snide questions, yet you'll probably fail to understand that you have no clout, no good history, and only a few "misinterpreted" hissy-fit posts to back up your point of view.
You honestly took the time to come back to this post a week later and bleed of your steam, but why? To attempt to discredit a valuable and honest aftermarket company with a HUGE satisfied customer base over many years and many brands. Please, get over yourself and your failure to bash their product with no knowledge of it.
Want to put your money where your foot currently is? Buy all the current R56 intercoolers and do a group test. Produce all the same parameters you demanded, and publish it for all to see. You will then have redeemed a small percentage of dignity lost by your continued unfounded bashing, even if you tried to play it off as misunderstood humor.
Regards,
Ryan
Regards,
Ryan
If all that make me a jack**a and a troll in everyone's eyes then I'm sorry, but so be it. As I said, I won't reply further or return to this thread. A couple of parting words of advice for Helix: first - lighten up. Second - take a little more time to think and understand potential customers before ripping them a new one, instead of going off half cocked because of what you think they meant.
I'm right your wrong....blah blah blah blah blah. How about a group hug and let's get on with making our rides more fun!
4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 392
Likes: 1
From: San Antonio
Mark or Ralph at Helix
I'm in the market to buy my first mod before my '09 factory JCW even is built (build month is Mar 09). I'm moving from Germany to Las Vegas this summer and the intercooler seems a great first mod. Honestly, I'm torm between your intercooler and Altas. Yours is $110 more. Why is it worth it? Alta shows on their website the dyno results which beyond the hp and ft-lb increase at all rpms, really smoothes out the torque curve to get rid of the sharp dips at 2500 and 3500 rpms (as well as a big increase in torque from 4K to 6K rpms), which interests me as much as the cooler running.
I'm in the market to buy my first mod before my '09 factory JCW even is built (build month is Mar 09). I'm moving from Germany to Las Vegas this summer and the intercooler seems a great first mod. Honestly, I'm torm between your intercooler and Altas. Yours is $110 more. Why is it worth it? Alta shows on their website the dyno results which beyond the hp and ft-lb increase at all rpms, really smoothes out the torque curve to get rid of the sharp dips at 2500 and 3500 rpms (as well as a big increase in torque from 4K to 6K rpms), which interests me as much as the cooler running.
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,159
Likes: 17
From: Under your car
Stevie:
When testing an intercooler, it is much less effective to put it on a dyno than it is to test it on the street, in real world conditions. Unless a chassis dyno has a wind tunnel, the numbers that it will show do not reflect the actual gains or losses achieved by the intercooler, since it can't replicate wind volume and velocity. You get a much more accurate picture of how the intercooler is performing by doing high-quality datalogging on the street.
Moreover, dynoing an R56 with stock software or a piggyback is very difficult to do accurately or honestly, because of the overboost feature. Because the DME allows for drive-cycle controlled high-boost runs, the peak power that a turbo MINI shows can change by 25hp with no changes to the car's hardware. This feature is not controlled by piggy-back software. The best way to show output changes before and after hardware upgrades is to do multiple dyno runs (like 5 or more). Three sets of multiple runs: before the change, after the change, and then with the original hardware. From this you'll get clusters of data that represent the true performance of the hardware change. I'm sure this has been discussed ad infinitum on these boards, I'm sorry if I'm beating a dead horse.
To address your specific question, Our R56s power and torque delivery is much smoother and more consistent with the Helix intercooler.
When testing an intercooler, it is much less effective to put it on a dyno than it is to test it on the street, in real world conditions. Unless a chassis dyno has a wind tunnel, the numbers that it will show do not reflect the actual gains or losses achieved by the intercooler, since it can't replicate wind volume and velocity. You get a much more accurate picture of how the intercooler is performing by doing high-quality datalogging on the street.
Moreover, dynoing an R56 with stock software or a piggyback is very difficult to do accurately or honestly, because of the overboost feature. Because the DME allows for drive-cycle controlled high-boost runs, the peak power that a turbo MINI shows can change by 25hp with no changes to the car's hardware. This feature is not controlled by piggy-back software. The best way to show output changes before and after hardware upgrades is to do multiple dyno runs (like 5 or more). Three sets of multiple runs: before the change, after the change, and then with the original hardware. From this you'll get clusters of data that represent the true performance of the hardware change. I'm sure this has been discussed ad infinitum on these boards, I'm sorry if I'm beating a dead horse.
To address your specific question, Our R56s power and torque delivery is much smoother and more consistent with the Helix intercooler.
5th Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
From: Nor-Cal
I too am in the market for an intercooler and am looking at Alta's + Helix's.
From what I can tell the big difference is:
-Helix's FMIC is more expensive
-Alta's requires cutting to install (don't like that).
-Alta offers a "stealth" black version.
I'll have to take Helix's and Alta's word on each's performance, ...what I'd love to hear is actual user's experience?
Speficially:
-Is the Alta intercooler a pain in the butt to install (because of the cutting involved)? -this worries me.
-How have you liked the intercooler you bought (from either manufacturer)?
-Any issues or problems from either?
I lean a little towards Helix's (because of the easier install and lack of cutting required) ...yet the price point on Alta's is nice.
By the way I just ordered a DDM street intake via the Helix website. Yet, i've made purchases from both Alta and now Helix, -and am impressed by both co's.
From what I can tell the big difference is:
-Helix's FMIC is more expensive
-Alta's requires cutting to install (don't like that).
-Alta offers a "stealth" black version.
I'll have to take Helix's and Alta's word on each's performance, ...what I'd love to hear is actual user's experience?
Speficially:
-Is the Alta intercooler a pain in the butt to install (because of the cutting involved)? -this worries me.
-How have you liked the intercooler you bought (from either manufacturer)?
-Any issues or problems from either?
I lean a little towards Helix's (because of the easier install and lack of cutting required) ...yet the price point on Alta's is nice.
By the way I just ordered a DDM street intake via the Helix website. Yet, i've made purchases from both Alta and now Helix, -and am impressed by both co's.
I have the alta stealth intercooler. Instalation was a snap, you have to shave a inch or less, its not hard. The performance increase is very noticable. The only thing I didnt like was that it is very heavy I think it was like 10lbs and the stock one was only 3lbs or so. But the performance gains are worth it
Former Vendor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
I too am in the market for an intercooler and am looking at Alta's + Helix's.
From what I can tell the big difference is:
-Helix's FMIC is more expensive
-Alta's requires cutting to install (don't like that).
-Alta offers a "stealth" black version.
I'll have to take Helix's and Alta's word on each's performance, ...what I'd love to hear is actual user's experience?
Speficially:
-Is the Alta intercooler a pain in the butt to install (because of the cutting involved)? -this worries me.
-How have you liked the intercooler you bought (from either manufacturer)?
-Any issues or problems from either?
I lean a little towards Helix's (because of the easier install and lack of cutting required) ...yet the price point on Alta's is nice.
By the way I just ordered a DDM street intake via the Helix website. Yet, i've made purchases from both Alta and now Helix, -and am impressed by both co's.
From what I can tell the big difference is:
-Helix's FMIC is more expensive
-Alta's requires cutting to install (don't like that).
-Alta offers a "stealth" black version.
I'll have to take Helix's and Alta's word on each's performance, ...what I'd love to hear is actual user's experience?
Speficially:
-Is the Alta intercooler a pain in the butt to install (because of the cutting involved)? -this worries me.
-How have you liked the intercooler you bought (from either manufacturer)?
-Any issues or problems from either?
I lean a little towards Helix's (because of the easier install and lack of cutting required) ...yet the price point on Alta's is nice.
By the way I just ordered a DDM street intake via the Helix website. Yet, i've made purchases from both Alta and now Helix, -and am impressed by both co's.
5th Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
From: Nor-Cal
Charaj, -you bought the Alta intercooler and said that performance increase was noticeable.
Mini Fireman, -did you notice a performance increase w/ the Helix intercooler?
YEAH! -I'll wait to hear the price, if it's good count me in for an order. -whomever is heading this up can PM me w/ details.
thanks,
Mini Fireman, -did you notice a performance increase w/ the Helix intercooler?
Helix is going to be posting a group buy for these intercoolers with steep discounts
thanks,
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
I have installed the ALTA Intercooler by itself. It was my first mod because it was on a crazy sale. However, the performance increase was not a blow the seat out of your pants feeling. It is there, but it is not a HOLY CRAP modification. You would probably need an ECU to feel its full potential... the R56 ECU is too restrictive.
I am picky when it comes to power increases, however. My wife thought it was awesome, but who knows... can't wait for a good ECU solution to come out!
I am picky when it comes to power increases, however. My wife thought it was awesome, but who knows... can't wait for a good ECU solution to come out!
5th Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
From: Nor-Cal
However, the performance increase was not a blow the seat out of your pants feeling.
The only thing I don't care for w/ the Alta is the cutting for install. Yet the thing that keeps me from purchasing the Helix is that it's about $175 more (w/ the current 14% off from Alta discounts they are giving). $175 is a pretty big difference in price ...so I'll wait to hear what Helix is offering w/ the group discount. If it's good I'll make my purchase now, otherwise it's not something I need to do immediately.
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 521
Likes: 0
From: Charlotte, NC
I too am in the market for an intercooler and am looking at Alta's + Helix's.
From what I can tell the big difference is:
-Helix's FMIC is more expensive
-Alta's requires cutting to install (don't like that).
-Alta offers a "stealth" black version.
I'll have to take Helix's and Alta's word on each's performance, ...what I'd love to hear is actual user's experience?
Speficially:
-Is the Alta intercooler a pain in the butt to install (because of the cutting involved)? -this worries me.
-How have you liked the intercooler you bought (from either manufacturer)?
-Any issues or problems from either?
I lean a little towards Helix's (because of the easier install and lack of cutting required) ...yet the price point on Alta's is nice.
By the way I just ordered a DDM street intake via the Helix website. Yet, i've made purchases from both Alta and now Helix, -and am impressed by both co's.
From what I can tell the big difference is:
-Helix's FMIC is more expensive
-Alta's requires cutting to install (don't like that).
-Alta offers a "stealth" black version.
I'll have to take Helix's and Alta's word on each's performance, ...what I'd love to hear is actual user's experience?
Speficially:
-Is the Alta intercooler a pain in the butt to install (because of the cutting involved)? -this worries me.
-How have you liked the intercooler you bought (from either manufacturer)?
-Any issues or problems from either?
I lean a little towards Helix's (because of the easier install and lack of cutting required) ...yet the price point on Alta's is nice.
By the way I just ordered a DDM street intake via the Helix website. Yet, i've made purchases from both Alta and now Helix, -and am impressed by both co's.