Drivetrain Paddle shift w/clutch from M7...
on the auto-x course this weekend, the 1-2 upshift was at a hard right hand turn. I kept missing second....the shifter going into the lockout for reverse instead of 2nd due to the cornerning forces (but not engaging it obviously). Something like this would be a nice feature, to avoid such a costly error, but replacing a gearbox would be as much 
I'll take my chances
I'll take my chances
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http://www.porsche.com/usa/eventsand...ogyandconcept/
Originally Posted by rustyboy155
My comment had more to do with the placement of shifter paddles than whether or not it had a clutch.
Originally Posted by rustyboy155
Saw it, not sure I understand the point of buying a stick, making it an auto for 6k, and still having to use the clutch 
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Originally Posted by rustyboy155
Still, it's awkward to slip the clutch out and blip the throttle while braking and flipping a paddle. You've turned a manual transmission into a more complicated manual transmission.
Originally Posted by rustyboy155
However awkward or unawkard it is, it's still pointless in my mind if you have to use the clutch .
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Originally Posted by rustyboy155
I don't recall telling anyone how awkward it is, I was merely speculating that based on my disinterest in driving even a true clutchless manual design, this isn't likely to be something that many people have interest in (Especially because it doesn't eliminate the timely clutch depression).
Originally Posted by rustyboy155
Keep in mind the race cars you've shown thus far also have straight cut gears and ignition cut-out systems that are quite a bit more complicated (And expensive) than the system M7 is showcasing. Many of those transmissions, while they may have clutches don't require any clutch pedal input for gear changes (I never said it would be smooth!).
Originally Posted by rustyboy155
As I said, I was mostly trying to point out that people interested in turning their car into a full blown race car would likely opt for a much more complicated sequential shift gearbox with dogtooth gears and the works, over something with paddle shifters. M7 already said they're working on a bump shift design, which brings it closer to the racecar application I mentioned.
Also, bear in mind that this system is still a work in progress, and for all you know, they could be developing some of the technologies you're mentioning.
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From: Encinitas, CA
on the auto-x course this weekend, the 1-2 upshift was at a hard right hand turn. I kept missing second....the shifter going into the lockout for reverse instead of 2nd due to the cornerning forces (but not engaging it obviously). Something like this would be a nice feature, to avoid such a costly error, but replacing a gearbox would be as much I'll take my chances
I'll take my chances
Originally Posted by Johannes van Overbeek
The gearboxes in the two cars are also similar in feel. That might surprise you, given the fact that the RSR has a non-synchromesh, sequential gearbox while the RS has a traditional-synchromesh, H-pattern gearbox. A sequential box is similar to a motorcycle in that selecting each gear follows the last in the same plane of the shift lever. In the RSR, you pull the lever mounted on the transmission tunnel towards the rear of the car to upshift and push it towards the front of the car to downshift. Neutral is just ahead of first, with reverse just ahead of neutral. Thus, the sequence is: R-N-1-2-3-4-5-6. With a sequential, you don’t have to worry about a mis-shift, especially when you’ve got to make shifts mid-corner. Shifting the RSR is easy on the move, but —statically — it’s tough to change gears. The self-engaging effect of the slider and gear in the RSR gearbox needs to be eliminated in order to change gears, which makes selecting gears while stopped a chore. An upshift in the RSR can be made with your foot flat on the throttle without using the clutch, but smooth and reliable downshifts in the GT3 RSR require both a healthy throttle blip and use of the clutch pedal.
Getting into the GT3 RS after driving the GT3 RSR is an easy and familiar transition. It was especially familiar because the gearbox and shifting operation of the RS is identical to that of the 2001-2005 996 GT3 Cup. In fact, the gearbox, gearbox cooler location, shift lever, shift cables, and mounting location are identical between the two cars. In one section at Thunderhill, you’ve got to shift from second to third in a high-load right-hander in both the RS and the RSR. In the RS, I found my hand being carried away from the shifter by the g forces once I was between gears. The combination of the upshift and the corner forced me to think more than I wanted to about shifting the RS into third gear to avoid accidentally finding first gear. With the RSR, a simple pull back is all that’s required. Once you adjust to the track-specific issues in the RS, both boxes are positive and easy to operate. Ultimately, the sequential box is more track friendly, —but you wouldn’t want to get stuck at a red light with a sequential in third gear and then try to find first in a hurry.
Getting into the GT3 RS after driving the GT3 RSR is an easy and familiar transition. It was especially familiar because the gearbox and shifting operation of the RS is identical to that of the 2001-2005 996 GT3 Cup. In fact, the gearbox, gearbox cooler location, shift lever, shift cables, and mounting location are identical between the two cars. In one section at Thunderhill, you’ve got to shift from second to third in a high-load right-hander in both the RS and the RSR. In the RS, I found my hand being carried away from the shifter by the g forces once I was between gears. The combination of the upshift and the corner forced me to think more than I wanted to about shifting the RS into third gear to avoid accidentally finding first gear. With the RSR, a simple pull back is all that’s required. Once you adjust to the track-specific issues in the RS, both boxes are positive and easy to operate. Ultimately, the sequential box is more track friendly, —but you wouldn’t want to get stuck at a red light with a sequential in third gear and then try to find first in a hurry.
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exactly. being a former BMW Motorrad owner, I'm used to sequential gearboxes. it becomes intuitive on the street in short order, even if you are used to a standard shift pattern.
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Seriously. Do you really feel the need to emphasize the CC education and the passing grade in the Psyc101 in every post? 
What is the "standard AM warranty"?
More time consuming than technical? So why is it so time consuming?
"The parts needed in the reversal will be in the box we give you when you pick up the car . 100% reversible". Since you know that, you should have no problem posting what those parts are. I think this is a second, or third time that I am asking.
You have beaten the bush. You have beaten around the bush. Just answer the damn question already. If you don't want to answer the question, just say so. If you don't know the answer, just say so.
And just to save you some key strokes. You are welcome for the bump.
What is the "standard AM warranty"?
More time consuming than technical? So why is it so time consuming?
"The parts needed in the reversal will be in the box we give you when you pick up the car . 100% reversible". Since you know that, you should have no problem posting what those parts are. I think this is a second, or third time that I am asking.
You have beaten the bush. You have beaten around the bush. Just answer the damn question already. If you don't want to answer the question, just say so. If you don't know the answer, just say so.
And just to save you some key strokes. You are welcome for the bump.
After further review here are some updates.
We suggest installation to be done by your trusted, local auto shop as there is a lot of work involved. If you are comfortable with electrical wiring and mechanic work, you may be able to do this at home with the help of a friend. This is by no means a small task and we expect typical installation to be at least 12 to 15 hours worth of work at home (depending on your skill level, a good weekend will usually be enough). Your local mechanic should be able to churn this out much faster as they will most likely have more hands on the job and the proper tools readily available.
Also note that a laptop with Windows operating system (Macs that have Windows installed work as well) is required to use the box configuration program. Installation of this product does not impair the ability to revert back to stock because none of the stock components are altered in any way (except for two holes drilled in the trunk for the cables to run through). In fact, the process of returning to stock is MUCH faster than installation of our system.
Warranty Info: The shifter box is covered under a full year warranty for the original purchaser. The paddle assembly/ bump-shift stick is covered under a lifetime warranty for the original purchaser.
As for the details on putting back to stock we estimate about 2 hrs with the hardest part being the dropping of the exhaust system.
I hope this answers some more of your questions and we do appreciate your interest
Randy
M7 Tuning
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Works for me. What would guestimate the install cost to be? Some one said at AMVIV that the total cost was around 6 large including install. But based on your time estimate that seems to be a bit high.
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It actually is a factory race car. You can buy it directly from Porsche, completely race-prepped and ready to go, fresh from the factory.
http://www.porsche.com/usa/eventsand...ogyandconcept/
That's sort of contradictory to the statements you made that started this whole debacle, no?
Sure, sure... no doubt. The debate was not as to whether the internals were different or not, though. They were as to the usefulness of a system that retains use of a clutch. Straight-cut gearboxes definitely require clutch pedal input for downshifts, as there are no syncros to get the gears turning at the same speed in order for them to mesh up. On upshifts, you can just let off the throttle and upshift, or as you said (and as I mentioned earlier), some systems have a switch that automatically cuts throttle when an upshift is initiated. As far as the Porsche 911 GT3 RSR is concerned, that was only added a couple of years ago. Prior to that, upshifts required you to lift your foot off the throttle pedal.
Most people turning their MINI into a full-blown race car still rely on your standard H-pattern shifter. There's one car in Europe running a custom Quaife sequential, but for the price, the M7 system is a serious bargain. Even if it does affect longevity, you can probably buy a half-dozen OEM gearboxes for the price of one custom Quaife sequential. So really, if you want to look at it from a racer perspective, this system is actually a pretty good deal for someone who wants a sequential but doesn't want to throw down $10,000+ for an aftermarket sequential. It operates in much the same way as a race sequential, but at a fraction of the price. Jnky brings up valid points regarding longevity, but for a serious racer, a quick inspection of the drain plug magnet and a fluid change will tell them everything they need to know about how many miles are likely left on the gearbox until a rebuild or swap is necessary. That's if it does hurt longevity, which is still up in the air at this point.
Also, bear in mind that this system is still a work in progress, and for all you know, they could be developing some of the technologies you're mentioning.
http://www.porsche.com/usa/eventsand...ogyandconcept/
That's sort of contradictory to the statements you made that started this whole debacle, no?
Sure, sure... no doubt. The debate was not as to whether the internals were different or not, though. They were as to the usefulness of a system that retains use of a clutch. Straight-cut gearboxes definitely require clutch pedal input for downshifts, as there are no syncros to get the gears turning at the same speed in order for them to mesh up. On upshifts, you can just let off the throttle and upshift, or as you said (and as I mentioned earlier), some systems have a switch that automatically cuts throttle when an upshift is initiated. As far as the Porsche 911 GT3 RSR is concerned, that was only added a couple of years ago. Prior to that, upshifts required you to lift your foot off the throttle pedal.
Most people turning their MINI into a full-blown race car still rely on your standard H-pattern shifter. There's one car in Europe running a custom Quaife sequential, but for the price, the M7 system is a serious bargain. Even if it does affect longevity, you can probably buy a half-dozen OEM gearboxes for the price of one custom Quaife sequential. So really, if you want to look at it from a racer perspective, this system is actually a pretty good deal for someone who wants a sequential but doesn't want to throw down $10,000+ for an aftermarket sequential. It operates in much the same way as a race sequential, but at a fraction of the price. Jnky brings up valid points regarding longevity, but for a serious racer, a quick inspection of the drain plug magnet and a fluid change will tell them everything they need to know about how many miles are likely left on the gearbox until a rebuild or swap is necessary. That's if it does hurt longevity, which is still up in the air at this point.
Also, bear in mind that this system is still a work in progress, and for all you know, they could be developing some of the technologies you're mentioning.
Back on track
4th Gear
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If he had an issue with what I said, could he not have approached me either in a PM or directly on the forum? While I understand your point, you have to understand that I meant no disrespect by what I said, and again, i'm sorry if that was the way my comment was taken. I thought the joking nature was obvious.
But I did check my panties for bunches, all was OK.
Bill
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And to Rustyboy, it was most likely the dad in me that made me come off scoldingly. (Hey, I still do that to my 32 year-old.
)
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This weekend I went down to LA to pick up some stuff & got to ride along with Peter on a canyon run. Let me first say I was kinda skeptical about the setup & the cost. However, after the run was over I can honestly say I was completely blown away at: the ease of shifting, Peter's hands never left the wheel & as cool as "stacking" sounds - watching it in practice during a canyon drive is amazing. Cost? In my opinion it's in the "strike zone" given the R&D, part costs, etc. Great new piece M7!
Note: Now I just have to talk my old lady into letting me get one.
Note: Now I just have to talk my old lady into letting me get one.
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This weekend I went down to LA to pick up some stuff & got to ride along with Peter on a canyon run. Let me first say I was kinda skeptical about the setup & the cost. However, after the run was over I can honestly say I was completely blown away at: the ease of shifting, Peter's hands never left the wheel & as cool as "stacking" sounds - watching it in practice during a canyon drive is amazing. Cost? In my opinion it's in the "strike zone" given the R&D, part costs, etc. Great new piece M7!
Note: Now I just have to talk my old lady into letting me get one.
Note: Now I just have to talk my old lady into letting me get one.
I told Steve Saturday that you will be comming home with yours eyes all filled with stuff. When you getting the rear diffuser? I'll buy yours 
. What about your seats .
The new M7 diffuser is freakin' cool, but I'm telling you the paddle-shifters take things to a whole new level. People can talk about 200ms shift speed, speculate about functionality, etc. but until you see it in action you can't truly appreciate the simplicity & ease of the system. I'm getting rid of my leather heated seats with Oricari seatbacks (I'll PM you).
Having messed around with it at AMVIV and chatted with Randy at length about it, I concur it was a cool bit of kit. At 3 and a half G's, it's hardly the first thing I'd write a check for when modding a MINI but I don't think that's ever been the point of the project. Randy said that right off the bat when we talked.
A narrow niche as Randy said, but there seems to be one there. The cost benefit ratio is certainly not the greatest, but so what. If you dig it, and have the scratch, then buy it. Heck I checked the box for 'english panther leather seats' when I ordered my 06. One of the stupidest moves out there from a purely financial aspect, but I like the seats a heck of alot.
A narrow niche as Randy said, but there seems to be one there. The cost benefit ratio is certainly not the greatest, but so what. If you dig it, and have the scratch, then buy it. Heck I checked the box for 'english panther leather seats' when I ordered my 06. One of the stupidest moves out there from a purely financial aspect, but I like the seats a heck of alot.
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Having messed around with it at AMVIV and chatted with Randy at length about it, I concur it was a cool bit of kit. At 3 and a half G's, it's hardly the first thing I'd write a check for when modding a MINI but I don't think that's ever been the point of the project. Randy said that right off the bat when we talked.
A narrow niche as Randy said, but there seems to be one there. The cost benefit ratio is certainly not the greatest, but so what. If you dig it, and have the scratch, then buy it. Heck I checked the box for 'english panther leather seats' when I ordered my 06. One of the stupidest moves out there from a purely financial aspect, but I like the seats a heck of alot.
A narrow niche as Randy said, but there seems to be one there. The cost benefit ratio is certainly not the greatest, but so what. If you dig it, and have the scratch, then buy it. Heck I checked the box for 'english panther leather seats' when I ordered my 06. One of the stupidest moves out there from a purely financial aspect, but I like the seats a heck of alot.
Thread Starter
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Peace Keeper
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http://www.quaife.co.uk/Mini-Cooper-...gement-gearkit
Now, this would be fun
To bad its ~4872.02 USD
Last edited by ChrisMCS04; Apr 8, 2008 at 10:09 AM.
Heck at some point I might just do the same.
Last edited by JCW Driver; Apr 10, 2008 at 12:54 AM.