ALTA's GP meets the Unichip and gets 12WHP and 8ft-lbs
 

ALTA PnP UNICHIP TUNED ON THE ALTA GP!

Full Write Up Here
As many people now know, we are selling/tuning Unichips for the Mini. We have proven the Unichip can make big power on the new R56 model, and now its time to prove its worth on the R53 Mini! It may sound funny that we are re-proving an already proven product for the R53, but no one has really done back-to-back runs proving what it can do. We like Concrete Evidence that something works, and this is exactly that.

Also it seems as though no one has done back to back ECU tuning on a R53 and proven any engine management to do anything. This is either from them not gaining much beyond stock, or no one has really done it. The few we found were showing gains from increasing the redline, but no increase in the normal RPM range.

In the past, Unichips for the R53 Mini were sold with off the shelf maps that make a little extra HP over stock. While these maps made noticeable gains, we wanted more! The maps created for the Mini were created with smaller exhaust than most people run (2.25” vs. 2.5”) and we wanted to maximize these newer standards.

TEST #1….The GP

Yes we are starting out with a bit more HP than the other JCW packaged Minis (215 vs 207) this is only from the extra 100 RPM of redline from the normal JCW bolt on package. During this test we stopped the runs at 7000 to show what other JCW guys and normal S’s can expect from the Unichip upgrades. With a few new base runs done, we saw consistently 190-192WHP, and a peak torque of 167ft-lbs. Time to start tuning!!

http://www.altaminiperformance.com/s...nichiptest.jpg


There are many things we learned about tuning this engine compared to other Turbo cars we tune. Too bad we can’t tell you what that was! J But being serious, there is quite a bit left on tap with the stock ECU tune. As with any car manufacture, they detune the car a bit to work well in all parts of the world. We were very surprised that we got the gains below from an ECU that was “tuned to the edge” from the factory. Just wait until we get our hands on a normal Cooper S and tune it! Our R53 test and tune with the Unichip is almost done, be on the look out!
We thought it might be a good idea to compare our overall power to the stock GP. This shows what the ALTA UnichipTune/ALTA intake/ALTA 2.5” Catback gained over the bone stock GP. This is a package we will be offering for any JCW/GP customer that may want to bump up their existing power to 200+WHP. This package retails for $1775.00 and if purchased together, $1619.99 with free shipping.

http://www.altaminiperformance.com/s...chipcbintk.jpg

While the initial runs were done a few days prior, the ending results from that day were the same as our starting numbers from the Unichip test and tune day.

CONCLUSION

Proof is in the results. ALTA is once again proving a product we sell and support. The Unichip has a great name in the land of Mini and we plan to keep it there. The results we got were very solid, and not on the ragged edge, so the numbers you see above is what you should expect to see with similar mods. We started with our GP/JCW packaged car because it seems many of current owner of these cars think their car is maxed out. Well, they are not!

Also in the upcoming months, our new shop will be ready for retail customers, and we will be offering custom tunes. Mainly for customers that might have a special part or two installed. We are looking for a couple of guys in CA or somewhere with only 91 octane fuel for some further testing.

What can we do next to get more power?

Well there are a couple of things, Header, Water injection, V2 intercooler. Over time these will be installed and tuned. Be on the look out!
So where can you buy this???
Well on our site of course!!
CLICK HERE!!

And a fun little video we created!

I'd be interested to see you revisit this in 3-4 months with no other changes. From what I understand the OEM ECU adapts back to it's original mapping in time. Granted this is only anecdotal but has been relayed to me from others that have sold the Unichip with its off the shelf maps. Maybe something y'all do with the tuning will prevent that, if in fact it does happen.

I got a custom Unichip tune and gained 34whp on my JCW over what the MTH map was providing. Unichip rocks!

Hey, great news! Now I know how and where to sell my Unichip that is little more than a doorstop to me.

Mapping?! HA! - find a rocket scientist and good luck.

I'm going to get Jan's tuning at Revolution Mini - lasting tune with real ECU changes.

Paul

Hey guys: I don't quite understand the hating here, but this is a tried and true mod. What ALTA brings to the table is REAL tuning with verifiable results. The mapping can only be done by an authorized tuner. (Which of course we are.) Plus in the spring existing clients will be able to do final tuning themselves with an add on mod.

Also, I don't believe we are rocket scientists, but we are GOOD tuners. Jeff and I have spent many many hours on the dyno with the cars. The results are REAL and they are repeatable. If you don't believe me, try it.

pberry51mini: If you don't believe it works send me your unichip. I will reflash it to OUR mapping and you can try it. What do you have to loose?

Thanks folks for the bump!

There are a few things that can make a car with a unichip detune itself. I am not going to say exactly how to fix that, because a good Unichip tuner should know this.

But what i will say is that the stock ECU has long term and short term fuel learning. This something all new age ECU's have. This long term and short term fueling occurs from idle up to a certain load point. Generally it shuts off under full throttle, or under full throttle above a certain RPM. Many people here that new cars tune them selves and any change any mod you install, and goes back to stock. The first part of this is true, but last is only partially true.

When tuning in the closed loop fueling areas of the ECU, it doesn't really matter what you do (to a point) and the AFR is going to be what its programed for. Generally 14.7 ARF. This done for fuel economy and changes to driving conditions. The only thing that carries beyond this closed loop fueling into the open loop fueling is the long term learning. Say your cars long term fuel trim is +5%, generally this 5% carries all the way to redline under load. But sometimes this isn't the case. But no matter what the shorttrim fueling, and long term fueling are things that change right away. Meaning after a few seconds of an engine running at NOT, the short term fueling will be settled. After few minutes of driving, the long term could be in this same state. Its not something that takes months to change. Its rather instant.

This is a very long discussion to be had about how an ECU works, to understand how this pertains to a Unichip tune. The beauty of the Unichip is its an offset from stock programming. You car runs X fueling and timing under full throttle, we just offset from those numbers.

If the car detunes itself, we would constant changes to AFR, and timing that the car can take, and this just isn't the case.

While we have the 2 best tools to tune a Mini cooper with, The Unichip and the Hydra stand alone. Both have their pluses and minuses, but they both produce the same basic results on a given car. When i get back to work monday,i will post the Graphs from the Hydra (tuned the same day as the Unichip) and i will show you. The Hydra only wins when you raise the revlimit, and it barely wins at lower RPMS because of the throttle control.

The rev limit is what most of the chip tuners do because it makes the peak HP number go up, so they can say our chip gains 15hp. I have seen this many times, that someone posts a graph of a before and after tune, where they gain 15HP, Ut its only because the redline went from 7000-7500. They don't gain 15HP everywhere, just at redline. People should expect gains everywhere like we proved above.

Jan is using a reflash or something, and changing internal maps. which is great and its only benifit over the Unichip is redline changes. With the Unichp there are soooo many other things it can do. Launch control, NOS, water injection, shift lights....... The list goes on and on. It can also be tuned much quicker than a reflash. Live tuning, instant changes make it a better tuner tool in that regards. If you have ever had to tune a car, where you guess at some changes, and have to flash the ECU between runs, then you tune a car where you can litterally change the mapping during a run, the you know what i am talking about.

What most people don't understand is the Unichip, Hydra, and other engine managment systems are just tools. In the end, they can do the same thing, if tuned properly. The engine will only take so much timing, the engine can only run so lean. All of these tools get you to their limits.

To the end user, they should only care about results, and the results they get for a price they pay. Given the existing RPM band of 0-7000 RPM, the Unichip is the winner, its $700 and makes good gains. But if you want to rev higher to get a few extra HP, be able to tune your own maps, or be able to load your own custom maps, the the Hydra is the answer.

Adam is serious, lets prove to you the Unichip is a good tool. Email me monday your list of parts, and we will reflash it for free!!

Now i would like to go back to watching Law and Order....Later!

So, does that mean you are willing to not change anything for a while a run it on the dyno in a couple months and prove that your UniChip tune won't be mapped around by the stock ECU?

Also, why did you run it on the dyno in 3rd gear this time? All the previous times you have posted something like this you have always been in 4th. It just seems odd that you would suddenly change the way you have previously tested parts by changing the gear you run in.

The stock EC is adaptive, not intelligent. It has fixed algorithms. It won't "learn" in any meaningful human way as these comments suggest. It can't "work around" the Unichip. The Unichip sends it altered (Alta'd) variable values that's all. It's not rocket science at all, even though that's not AI either.
To to the Alta folks: I have a stock map in my Unichip. Are you saying I could see gains if I send it to you for one of your maps? Cool...I'm very interested.

Good luck on your Unichip venture.

Apparently you know some things that the US Unichip facility does not.

That's accually not the only thing... with DIMSPORT (that's what Jan is using) you can adjust everything... Throttle, timing, scale the injectors... the list goes on and on

not to take away from the other great stuff that you can do with it... but honestly to say the unichip is better... well just isn't true it's just what you want to use...

I also use a piggy back.. (an AFCII) but if I had the $ be able to tune my car as I want (or have someone to do it since not everyone is as savy) I would perfer using the factory box... piggy backs are just something else to cause issues or break...

Here's my beef - as many "Custom Tuners" I have contacted that are listed on the Unichip website there are exactly ZERO that have followed up with my interest in a basic tune or even a custom tune. I've sent my UNICHIP back to the US center and they put what they thought would be the better tune for me based upon my set-up and mods and it was only sightly more interesting than what I had from Webb Motorsports where I bought this jewel.
I ran into the UNICHIP guys at AMVIV and they told me their "friends" were getting ride-along tunes during the last three days but they were out of time for any more. (great)
So, my beef isn't with ALTA - just with suggestions that anyone not living within driving distance of a tuner might be better served by going with a Tuner that is Nationally known and does a better job of backing their product than UNICHIP.

BTW - I know very few people that would venture in tuning their cars with a laptop through the UNICHIP, sorry I used the cliche Rocket Science.

Paul

OK, so Adam is serious.
Are you as serious about your offer?
I'll email you Monday with my list of mods and I'll take this chance again.
Thank you so much for your offer, the best concerning the UNICHIP so far!!!

Paul

Thanks guys and gals for the follow up. I hope Jeff's reply was helpful. We are VERY understanding that previous "tuners" of the UniChip had issues. But Jeff and I bring more than 20 years combined aftermarket experience to this (and other) products we offer. Having seen and tested the "canned and stock" mapping from UniChip US and others, I can HONESTLY say the ALTA mapping is FAR and above a better tune vs. those. The JCW map for example that we just finished is a night n day difference vs the UniChip JCW map. They simply failed to put the proper touches to the map and the development time required to do it right. The UniChip is a tool. What someone does with the tool determines and shows the true product.

As an example hand me a wood saw and I will make a bunch of sawdust and an ill fitting mess. Hand my (now deceased ) father in law the same tool and you have a beautiful wooden box, or crib or etc. ALTA makes the UniChip do what it should have done to begin with.

On the comment about the months down the road changes. I think Jeff clearly answered that above. But I would rather suggest a local client come to us, we will install and hand over a dyno chart for their actual car. Have them come back in anytime frame reasonable and test it again. Proof is always in the pudding!

Thanks and have great weekend.

PS: Thank you to those that have already signed up for an ALTA Plug-n-Play ECU since Friday! Your orders will go out Monday!

Absolutely! a Month is long time, and like i said, a day or 2 of driving will show any long term learned fueling. But you have to remember, this is only for closed loop fuel control stuff. Which has little effect on full throttle stuff. But to prove that things stay the same, we will dyno it.

Adam can add some insight to this, since he has been driving the GP around for a few days. Since the tune last week the car, is just as fast, not a single bit of loss in power.

Regarding 3rd gear. We started with the GP in 3rd a long time ago. The R56 had to go to 4th because we were almost exceeding the hub torque holding capabilities on the Dynapack. But while it was different, it doesn't really matter. When the dyno is calibrated to an RPM, it recalculates TQ and all that to correct for the different gear ratio. Either way, its the before and after that matters We could have done it in 6th gear and gotten the same results. I will mention that different gears produce different HP readings. On the Dynapack, the HP numbers from 3rd to 5th gear are very very minor, like 2-4WHP overall. This is because of the way the dyno bolts to the hubs. On other types of dynos, this makes a much larger difference because of having to spin the wheels and the rollers. Different gears can make 10-20HP difference on these. But this only effects the overall numbers, not the overall difference. It still comes down to the change in HP from one thing to the next.

Alta'd, thats great! Yes, we feel we can give you a more refined map for your car. We have not completely worked out the Unichip Reflash program yet, but when we do, we would just want a list of parts, fuel in your area, and we could get you something a little more refined.

Currently we are tuning through the JCW packaged cars, then the 15%ers will be next. Using the base Unichip map we got huge increases in power, and we feel very confident in being able to provide more refined maps for most all applications.

Thanks! The US guys are very smart, and provide tuners with great tools. But there are some tuners who might have given the Unichip a bad name.

Actually what i said was:
"We have the 2 best tools to tune a Mini cooper with, The Unichip and the Hydra stand alone. Both have their pluses and minuses, but they both produce the same basic results on a given car. When i get back to work monday,i will post the Graphs from the Hydra (tuned the same day as the Unichip) and i will show you. The Hydra only wins when you raise the revlimit, and it barely wins at lower RPMS because of the throttle control."

Forget the ECU reflash for a Minute. During our tuning with both the Hydra and the Unichip, we saw almost exactly the same results in HP. The Hydra is good example because it is so FREE. There is nothing holding it back, nothing controlling torque, just hard numbers we input to make power. I think the only reason why we make a couple extra HP with the Hydra is because of knock control. The stock ECU's knock control seems a bit too sensitive. With the Hydra we create the knock sensors sensitivity, where the stock ECU or reflash, is using what is programmed into it.

For those new to tuning cars, the end result for a properly tuned engine can be the same with may different tools. Engines can only take so much timing, they can only run so lean. These limits and our example from the Hydra to the Unichip shows this.

I am very familiar with the maps unlocked in the reflash and while the maps unlocked do allow for the main things needed to increase power, not everything can be changed. For that matter being able to modify a map is only as good as the data to know where to modify it, how to modfiy it, and long it takes to modify it.

The Unichip is a great tuner tool because of how quickly we can modify them, how solid the results can be from it, and how quickly we can come to market with an item. For instance the R56 Unichip. ECU flashing tools are a long way away for them, and for us, the Unichip is a great answer, it provides results and satisfies our need to tune a car.

Not to mention with the Unichip Or Hydra, we can send you a box, with a program, you can install and be running down the road. With a Hydra you can even tune it your self! And in a few months, with the Unichip and their flux setup, you can do the same! Yes user tuning! THis is not something you can do with a flash.

There are lots of pluses and minuses to be had with flashes, standalones and piggybacks. It comes down to which systems benfits the end user the best.

I am glad your Beef isn't with us, but i think we can help you out. There are a lot of people who sell the Unichip, and sell it for lots of cars. We are specifically selling it for the Mini, which means, our support, and our maps will be better compared to the guy who sells them for all cars and trucks.

Something for everyone to keep mind.
In the land of ECU tuning, there are tools, tuners, and results.
-There are many types of tools for tuning, PIggybacks, ECU flashes, and Stand alone ECUs.
-Just as there are different types of tools, there are different types of tuners. There are guys who use off the shelf maps, DIY'ers, professional guys who create maps, and guys who run dynos.
-Same goes for results. The results can vary from huge gains in HP to blown up engines.
-Its putting all three of these aspects together to create a product people desire. People want results, they want ease of installation, and they want saftey. ALTA can deliver all of those things with the Unichip.

That should go on our website......

How much is this Hydra? Is this Hydra used in conjuction with a dyno? There are awesome results being done with custom dyno tunes for only $350. plus dyno time. I think I remember the Hydra is going for $1000.+, with no dyno time.

I can be this client if needed Adam...Just let me know!

again... for YOU... and in your opinion, you have two of the "BEST" tools.. but as you said.. for those of us who know tuning cars... the end result is what matters.. and for that matter.. All I said was you saying you have the "THE 2 BEST tools" is not the case... I used AFCIIs for years... and it was the BEST tool where there was nothing else... then started adjusting maps in the ECU with EVC... and then there was the MOTEC... which was used on the MINI USA car among many other cars out there... and IMO is the BEST TOOL there is hands down for just about any application... (yes very expensive).... in the end I still use my AFC with some ECU adjustments for my personal car... and you know what... it's still the fastest daily driven MINI/TC on the planet

I do not take away from what you guys have done... I have no issue with you guys... I like you guys... there's only maybe two other MINI vendors who accually deserve the term Tuner besides you guys...

I was just saying, it's not the tool it's how you use it... and cudos to you guys for doing they best you can with what you use:grin::thumbsup:

You are right, for any given situation/car, the "Best Tool" could be a lot of things. I was trying to give the example of a Piggyback and a Stand alone ECU, and how they both get the same results. If you arguing about the best tool, then we could go on and on about ECU brands and other things, but that is not what i was trying to do. I was giving the example of 2 things we have actually tuned with and the results we got.

Thanks for the nice complements! Its good to hear your TC is still running strong! Let us know when you are ready for a Hydra! :thumbsup::grin:

ha ha oh yeah she is... even a 30+ hour non-stop drive across the country... LOL.. woo that was interesting... more from the human side.. I was havin more trouble staying "running"... the car was fine... I ussually didnt even shut her off for fill ups...

And thanks..

(In my best Horschak impression) OH! OH! OH!!!

OK, this might be right up my alley.... I've got an '03 MCS with the '05 upgrade 207hp JCW kit (basic, plus the newer injectors and airbox). The airbox has the flap and bottom plug removed, and is fitted with a Mini Madness K&N type gauze filter. I also have a Milltek catback, and fwiw, NGK one-stage-colder irridium plugs. All stock JCW otherwise. And, I'm in CA and stuck with 91 octane gas.

The custom-tune thing would be great, but I don't see it happening anytime soon, so I would be REALLY interested in something like this.

Aside from the power gain aspects, are there other "adjustments" that you guys are making, or could make at the customer's request? I presume that the rev limit is raised (or could be) - what rpm are you setting it at? (assuming it's raised) Is the pedal-to-tb response improved at all?

My car feels really heavy to me right now - like I really have to bury the pedal to get it to really move, and even then it doesn't have that eager feeling that I remember it having when the JCW was new. Power delivery is also very uneven at anything less than foot-to-the-floor. (Not related to software so much, but I'm getting pretty regular yoyo-ing - I may be revisiting the DT bpv, at least the heavier spring)

So anyway, what say you? I think my car is basically set up to your stated parameters, and I could use a bit more power and smoother driveability. AND, I'm a 91 octaner. I'm not a mechanic, and don't by any stretch of the imagination consider myself a "tuner". I'm a bolt-oner, so a plug it in and run it product would be great - as long as it makes improvements, as you say, and doesn't throw a wrench in other areas. I'd definitely be willing to be a guinea pig, although I don't have any kind of monitoring equipment to quantify results or make comparisons.

Like I said, this sounds promising.

We can definitely do something for you! The only thing that CA91 guys loose out on is some top end power. The crappy gas, high RPM and boost cause a little loss up top. But down low and through the midrange you can gain quite a bit.

If you wanted a custom tune, drive on up here and we will get-er-done!

No problem - that sounds perfect. I'm not looking for miximum hp number bragging rights, and I am not racing, so the top end is not as important to me, as long as the car will still rev smoothly to redline if need be. I would like the limit raised a bit, to over 7,000, so that I can aim for that as a shift point without hitting the limiter. I'm looking more for smoother power delivery and more grunt for passing and freeway onramps. The car feels like it's really working hard doing those things now.

That's a possibility at some point.

Oh, if I later went to an aftermarket 15% pulley for a bit more boost (I'm only getting 11-12 lbs max now), I assume the system could be adjusted to take advantage of that, if needed?

Brian

LATER!! What do you mean!! Lets do that now! Or First!! :) But being serious, if your JCW car only gets 12 psi, that is a bit low. You should be seeing 15-ish at redline. But are you measuring it at redline? You might inspect a few things like the IC boots or your bypass valve. If there is something wrong, this might be why you are down a bit.

Hey, I totally agree. I'll be right up. :lol: Yeah, my boost gauge shows 11-12 lbs at wot if I'm near redline. Anything less, and I'm lucky to get in the 8-9 range. I used to see about 13 lbs at wot above 6,000 rpm. I've already got an ALTA V.1 15% pulley, and was going to have it installed a while back. The shop was having trouble removing the JCW pulley, however, and didn't feel that they could force it any more without damaging the input shaft/bearings, so they left the JCW part on. I have had both that shop (a BMW specialty shop that also is MINI certified) and the dealer go over my intake system looking for leaks and double-checking boots and bolts, but neither of them said they found any leaks or anything else wrong. Bypass valve seems to be working (judging by what I see with the boost gauge when I move the gas pedal). Not sure where my boost is going.

So, I've got the 15% pulley, just not on the car at the moment. I'd like to get the boost up to the 15-16 lb range.

The JCW kit comes with a pulley, around 14.x%, so why would you go to a 15% pulley for such a marginal gain in SC speed? You should see lower max boost at altitude, but 15psi is the standard non-altitude max boost with a 15% pulley.