again... you are talking about HP gains.. from "peak" numbers.. you say you ahve "no" detonation problems... but failed to answer how your timing is... where it is.. and how it is a peak...

the 201 and 234 you are comparing are not equal... you are comaring an untuned 201 tro a tuned 234.. this is noth the same.... I have seen 60 WHP gains with just changing out fuel...

 

I know they are not equal, the point is that my money was better spent getting a proper tune and to be able to use cheap 91 octane gas, over not getting a tune and using 100octane and draining my pockets forever. Of course in a perfect world I would have the software tuned for 100 octane all the time.

 

this is my point mario... the Factory ECU can ADAPT to 100 octane.. it knows more than you think... and it will adjust accordingly... even in your case... hence the reason I keep saying.. check your timing... on 91... AND 100

 

I'm not disgreeing with you. All I'm saying is having the choice of of tunned car or 100octane untuned car. I choose the tune for 91 because that is what is what I can afford one a daily bases and what is aviable to me.

 

ok so... maybe we are saying the same thing... tune for 91... yes... and once in a while for fun... add some or a full tank of 100... it will not be regretted... LOL

and since that is the question at hand.... yes it's great... yes it's fun... yes it's worth it... everyday? prolly not... on the weekends... was fun for me!

 

Stop arguing Mario.....lol.

 

Wow, send me some of this stuff!
I might believe this if you tell me it was oxyfuel....

 

Hey, I'm convinced! I used to drink Bacardi 151 but now stick strictly with Everclear. My tunes are better and I peak earlier! I am having a little trouble with flask corrosion though. Anyone else have this problem? I'd like to get some numbers but after fueling I don't seem to care about the numbers anymore.

 

Thats what I thought would happen Once in a while for kicks! For the people that just can't drop into a tuner shop around the corner there's some fun to be had.

 

Odds are this is a waste of money. Your ECU will compensate for the addtional octane, but not with the numbers you think. More like the knock sensor is not going to initiate.
Come back with real dyno numbers... otherwise this is all speculation and butt dyno which is highly suspect.

 

I have to go out of my way to say your statement is completely wrong. I have personaly been told by people in the industry that tune and work on Minis everyday and race that a better octane fuel will help your car in better all around performance and added power, not much but it sure does help.

 

 

Do any of those dataloggers that you plug into the OBD port record knock-sensor voltage and timing information? I'd like to find out under what conditions (if ever) the ECU will pull timing on a *stock* 'S' engine with 93-octane fuel.

Almost all of my daily driving is spent below 5000 RPM, but I'm intrigued with the idea of adding a small fuel cell filled with 100-octane, along with a boost-operated switch to swap between the fuel cell and the normal gas tank *before* reaching the conditions that cause the ECU to pull timing.

 

. the Knock sensor works fine with 100... infact the car is MEANT to run on 98 octane... I have seen it pull timing on 100 you just hve to get over the 400 WHP mark... and then 100 octane isn't enough anymore... LOL

the dyno #s as I stated were worked out long ago... Sorry but I was testing this stuff back in 04.. I do not have the graphs with me... and hell who knows if I can even find them now.... I do not BUTT dyno... or speculate.... you can expect about 20 WHP on a SC car depending on mods and such... it really depends...timing is a beautiful thing to get back...

 

yes... this is how I started out checking such things as timing... watching it go from 18 on 91 to 30 and stedy on 100

on 93 as you get into the upper RPMs and load... you will be around 22 but not stedy.....prolly bouncing from 18 to a max of 22...

 

That is correct cause I know for a fact that if my timing was corrected at 6200 and then again at 6800 that the car would pull an extra 14 whp at peak of 7200 rpm.

 

Here's what I was trying to convey last night in my post... Not that it won't "work", but is there a real benefit beyond the perception..
I was also thinking this was real racing gas with 110 octane and not the 100 originally posted. In my area 110 is the norm for racing fuels. (man I love the smell of that stuff!)


and I quote...
"
The required octane is one that provides a controlled burn throughout the power cycle of the engine. As noted, octane is not the only factor within the fuel that controls the burn and there are many factors within the engine that affect the burn rate which then affect the amount of octane or burn control required. These factors include, but may not be limited to, engine compression, camshaft timing, ignition timing, combustion chamber design, spark plug location, valve adjustment, engine operating temperature, fuel mixture, and weather. Extremely high octane is not best for performance. A higher octane slows the burn rate and conversely a lower octane quickens the burn rate. You desire a burn rate that will match the needs and characteristics of your engine so that you may produce the maximum amount of power, but at the same time retain reliability. "

Also, does anyone "check" their spark plugs? That is a technique of installing the plug so that the electrode is facing the center between the intake and exhaust valve. 0|0 and not 0-0.

 

110 + is ussually leaded... and should not be run in a car with a cat...

I personally think 100 is just good gas... it should be the standard... so I understand what you mean.. but for most 100 + octane is race gas...

I too love that smell...mmmmm

 

I thought I read somewhere about how the engine computer will negate any "benefit" of higher than recommended octane....

 

again... we do not even have the "recommended" octane on pump in the us.. unless you are in a state that has 100 on pump... like AZ

so the point is.. it works!

the horse is dead.... lol

 

I really think the BMW engineers are neglected in debates such as this. If they are willing to speak up, then speak. If they aren't willing to speak up . . . how could you be a dedicated BMW engineer and not read the boards? Are BMW engineers just an advertising fiction? Where are they?

 

on the m6 forums, where they can make some money!

 

If it says anywhere that the "recommended" octane is 98, I'm pretty sure they're talking about 98 RON, not 98 (R+M)/2.

98 RON hasn't been widely available at pumps anywhere for years. (I'm not talking about the special place you go in your town to find 100 (R+M)/2 - I'm talking about Shell/Chevron/Texaco/Gulf stations.

98 RON is the same as what's advertised as "93 octane" in the States, and that's pretty widely-available, as long as you're not in California.

Looking at the dyno chart for my stock 'S' running 93 (R+M)/2, the engine certainly doesn't seem to "lay down and die" at high RPM/boost, and frankly, I don't notice a huge difference when I run 100-octane in it, especially at anything other than wide-open throttle and 6000+ RPM.

 

On my travels west from Dallas the octane level drops from 93 to 90 in the less populated areas of TX and 91 in NM, AZ, CO, NV and CO. For the first few 100 miles of using lower octane I can feel the difference. Tip in is sluggish, quick throttle movements are met with stumbles. After a few 100 miles all is ok. I think the ECU gets used to the lower octane and deals with it. It's hard to quantify how much power is down too since I've moved from low to higher altitudes usually.

Once back in the D/FW area and running a strict diet of top tier 93 again I usually disconnect the battery for a few hours and let the ECU reset. ALl is back to normal after that. As an aside, when I do a track day I disconnect the battery for an hour or so before my first session and then let the active learning happen under track conditions. The Mini runs like a scalded cat on the street for a few weeks after that.

 

Really ? I didn't know that. I've heard of computers in cars doing that but I always thought it was an urban legend Is it because you're beating the car and its trying to accommodate you , then on the street it continues until it figures out you're not racing anymore?