Can I use Swirl w/out a pc - Clay help
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2nd Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Dresher, PA (Philly)
Can I use Swirl w/out a pc - Clay help
Hi All, I have an '07 PW and as you all know the boot gets extremely dirty. So I tried my 2nd attempt at using clay last weekend (1st attempt was only done on maybe a 2 inch patch and wasn't very successful) and just noticed yesterday that I now have swirl galore 
. Needless to say I should have consulted with the geniouses first instead of thinking I could just scan thru some threads and figure it on my own. Anyway - this is a 2 part question. 1) Can I use swirl without a pc? I don't own one and really didn't want to spend the money b/c i don't think I need it yet for a new car but if it's the only way to use swirl then I will get it. But IF a pc is not absolutely necessary then please let me know the proper way I can use swirl without it.
2) What is the proper way to clay without inducing swirls? I am almost 100% certain that this is how I created my swirls in the first place. I flattened out the clay and was kinda sure not to go over the same areas and the car was somewhat wet but maybe I should have wet it more just before I clayed???
All advice/suggestions are appreciated!
. Needless to say I should have consulted with the geniouses first instead of thinking I could just scan thru some threads and figure it on my own. Anyway - this is a 2 part question. 1) Can I use swirl without a pc? I don't own one and really didn't want to spend the money b/c i don't think I need it yet for a new car but if it's the only way to use swirl then I will get it. But IF a pc is not absolutely necessary then please let me know the proper way I can use swirl without it. 2) What is the proper way to clay without inducing swirls? I am almost 100% certain that this is how I created my swirls in the first place. I flattened out the clay and was kinda sure not to go over the same areas and the car was somewhat wet but maybe I should have wet it more just before I clayed???
All advice/suggestions are appreciated!
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2007
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First, you don't need to use clay and/or swirl just to clean off dirt. That aside, yes you can use swirl without a pc. If you have swirl, the directions should be on the bottle. You said you "wet" the clay, but did you lubricate it? You should lube the clay with a quick detailer, or DP's (or equivalent) new clay lube. I trust you washed the car before claying? You don't want to use clay to grind dirt into the paint. I'm no expert, but this is the brtief of it.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,705
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From: Chattanooga, TN
You can use Swirl without a PC but I would not.
I tried to use Scrach-X by hand to get my swirls out and it helped but it did not really do the trick.
I then got a PC and used M80. WOW was it easyer and better. My paint is not perfect as I am still learning the best ways to use the PC but the investment is very much worth it.
Because your car is new you do want a PC so it can look its best.
I tried to use Scrach-X by hand to get my swirls out and it helped but it did not really do the trick.
I then got a PC and used M80. WOW was it easyer and better. My paint is not perfect as I am still learning the best ways to use the PC but the investment is very much worth it.
Because your car is new you do want a PC so it can look its best.
To truly get swirls out, a PC is the way to go if you can afford one. If not, there are other products that probably work a little better by hand than Swirl, like Scratch-X (readily availabe at auto parts stores and even Target). I'm sure you can use Swirl by hand but you would be pretty tired 
As far as not needing a PC because the car is new - PCs remove swirls. If you have swirls, you need a PC
Claying: make sure you are using something for lubrication - either some quick detailer, a clay-specific lube, or a mix of a few drops of car wash soap with water in a spray bottle. You need to thoroughly spray both the surface you're claying (I usually do about a 18-inch by 18-inch square at a time) AND the piece of clay. If you drop the piece of clay (break the large piece into several small pieces and only use a small piece at a time), toss it - if there is stuff embedded in it it will cause swirls.
As long as the clay doesn't have gunk in it and you use proper lube and quality microfibers, you shouldn't be inducing swirls with clay.
As far as not needing a PC because the car is new - PCs remove swirls. If you have swirls, you need a PC Claying: make sure you are using something for lubrication - either some quick detailer, a clay-specific lube, or a mix of a few drops of car wash soap with water in a spray bottle. You need to thoroughly spray both the surface you're claying (I usually do about a 18-inch by 18-inch square at a time) AND the piece of clay. If you drop the piece of clay (break the large piece into several small pieces and only use a small piece at a time), toss it - if there is stuff embedded in it it will cause swirls.
As long as the clay doesn't have gunk in it and you use proper lube and quality microfibers, you shouldn't be inducing swirls with clay.
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2nd Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Dresher, PA (Philly)
LynnEl - sorry I didn't explain myself clearly. I meant the car was wet (from just being washed), not my clay. I didn't even know you had to lube the clay first. Can I use water or another household product as a lube vs. getting the clay lube from dp? I have other Prima products and didn't want to place another order any time soon til it was necessary. Only reason I clayed in the first place is b/c I typically only wash once/week and I felt AND saw the imbedded dirt particles in the paint of my boot. Thx for your info.
thulcatt - thx for your advice about the pc. I might try a small patch to see if I can do it manually frist before ordering it.
MLWagner - thx so much for your input as well! Very helpful.
thulcatt - thx for your advice about the pc. I might try a small patch to see if I can do it manually frist before ordering it.
MLWagner - thx so much for your input as well! Very helpful.
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Overthemountain, AL
Never mind you just answered my ??? above 
p.s... go to your local auto parts store & buy some Meguiar's Quick Detailer. You can use it as your clay lube & it work's very nicely.
p.s.s... When claying you spray the lube on the car & then run the clay over the sprayed area. The clay should glide & not stick at all. If it sticks a bit just spray more lube.
p.s... go to your local auto parts store & buy some Meguiar's Quick Detailer. You can use it as your clay lube & it work's very nicely.
p.s.s... When claying you spray the lube on the car & then run the clay over the sprayed area. The clay should glide & not stick at all. If it sticks a bit just spray more lube.
Last edited by bamatt; Sep 21, 2007 at 09:01 AM.
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From: Denver, CO
First, although the lack of a lube spray probably did cause you to swirl your paint a bit, I would say it is most likely that your claying also revealed pre-existing swirls (often called "dealer-installed" swirls).
If the only swirls you have were exclusively from claying, even without a lube spray, then they would be mostly very light and superficial (read: fairly easy to remove, even by hand). Clay scuffing, as it's usually called, is not deep into your paint most cases. If this is the case, then yes, Swirl can be used fairly effectively by hand. As others have already said, for small fixes though, something like Scratch-X can be more effective (it just won't fix much beyond the very small stuff) for hand use.
However, my guess is that you've added some swirls to your pre-existing swirls. The pre-existing swirls were most likely caused by your dealer using the wrong tool for the job (and someone who doesn't know how to use this wrong tool) and/or poor washing and tool use (ie, drying with a dirty towel). Thus, they are much deeper than what clay scuffing would leave behind.
So, if you just want to minimize the swirls you see, then use either Swirl or Scratch-X by hand. I will warn that both products are extremely tiring to use by hand because both require several minutes per section in order to breakdown properly and effectively. Note that all of your swirls will not be gone after hand-polishing (unless they are truly are exclusively from claying, which I doubt). However, they will be diminished which may be enough for you (especially on PW).
------
As for your clay technique, MLWagner explained it pretty well already but if you want something you can print out, visit our website where we have a clay article (includes why and how it is used):
All About Clay
------
As for lube spray, as was already mentioned, you can also use most QD sprays (any auto parts store Quick Detail spray product will do). Most people find that they have favorite clay lube sprays after they've clayed a few times. Functionally though, QDs will work just fine too. In a pinch, you can also add some car wash soap to water in a spray bottle. This will usually cause the clay to break down prematurely but can be great in a pinch. (the amount you add to the water depends on the brand of the soap)
I hope that helps! Good luck! Remember, you can always give us a call if you want some one-on-one help too.
-Heather
If the only swirls you have were exclusively from claying, even without a lube spray, then they would be mostly very light and superficial (read: fairly easy to remove, even by hand). Clay scuffing, as it's usually called, is not deep into your paint most cases. If this is the case, then yes, Swirl can be used fairly effectively by hand. As others have already said, for small fixes though, something like Scratch-X can be more effective (it just won't fix much beyond the very small stuff) for hand use.
However, my guess is that you've added some swirls to your pre-existing swirls. The pre-existing swirls were most likely caused by your dealer using the wrong tool for the job (and someone who doesn't know how to use this wrong tool) and/or poor washing and tool use (ie, drying with a dirty towel). Thus, they are much deeper than what clay scuffing would leave behind.
So, if you just want to minimize the swirls you see, then use either Swirl or Scratch-X by hand. I will warn that both products are extremely tiring to use by hand because both require several minutes per section in order to breakdown properly and effectively. Note that all of your swirls will not be gone after hand-polishing (unless they are truly are exclusively from claying, which I doubt). However, they will be diminished which may be enough for you (especially on PW).
------
As for your clay technique, MLWagner explained it pretty well already but if you want something you can print out, visit our website where we have a clay article (includes why and how it is used):
All About Clay
------
As for lube spray, as was already mentioned, you can also use most QD sprays (any auto parts store Quick Detail spray product will do). Most people find that they have favorite clay lube sprays after they've clayed a few times. Functionally though, QDs will work just fine too. In a pinch, you can also add some car wash soap to water in a spray bottle. This will usually cause the clay to break down prematurely but can be great in a pinch. (the amount you add to the water depends on the brand of the soap)
I hope that helps! Good luck! Remember, you can always give us a call if you want some one-on-one help too.
-Heather
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6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Winston-Salem, NC
First, although the lack of a lube spray probably did cause you to swirl your paint a bit, I would say it is most likely that your claying also revealed pre-existing swirls (often called "dealer-installed" swirls).
If the only swirls you have were exclusively from claying, even without a lube spray, then they would be mostly very light and superficial (read: fairly easy to remove, even by hand). Clay scuffing, as it's usually called, is not deep into your paint most cases. If this is the case, then yes, Swirl can be used fairly effectively by hand. As others have already said, for small fixes though, something like Scratch-X can be more effective (it just won't fix much beyond the very small stuff) for hand use.
However, my guess is that you've added some swirls to your pre-existing swirls. The pre-existing swirls were most likely caused by your dealer using the wrong tool for the job (and someone who doesn't know how to use this wrong tool) and/or poor washing and tool use (ie, drying with a dirty towel). Thus, they are much deeper than what clay scuffing would leave behind.
So, if you just want to minimize the swirls you see, then use either Swirl or Scratch-X by hand. I will warn that both products are extremely tiring to use by hand because both require several minutes per section in order to breakdown properly and effectively. Note that all of your swirls will not be gone after hand-polishing (unless they are truly are exclusively from claying, which I doubt). However, they will be diminished which may be enough for you (especially on PW).
------
As for your clay technique, MLWagner explained it pretty well already but if you want something you can print out, visit our website where we have a clay article (includes why and how it is used):
All About Clay
------
As for lube spray, as was already mentioned, you can also use most QD sprays (any auto parts store Quick Detail spray product will do). Most people find that they have favorite clay lube sprays after they've clayed a few times. Functionally though, QDs will work just fine too. In a pinch, you can also add some car wash soap to water in a spray bottle. This will usually cause the clay to break down prematurely but can be great in a pinch. (the amount you add to the water depends on the brand of the soap)
I hope that helps! Good luck! Remember, you can always give us a call if you want some one-on-one help too.
-Heather
If the only swirls you have were exclusively from claying, even without a lube spray, then they would be mostly very light and superficial (read: fairly easy to remove, even by hand). Clay scuffing, as it's usually called, is not deep into your paint most cases. If this is the case, then yes, Swirl can be used fairly effectively by hand. As others have already said, for small fixes though, something like Scratch-X can be more effective (it just won't fix much beyond the very small stuff) for hand use.
However, my guess is that you've added some swirls to your pre-existing swirls. The pre-existing swirls were most likely caused by your dealer using the wrong tool for the job (and someone who doesn't know how to use this wrong tool) and/or poor washing and tool use (ie, drying with a dirty towel). Thus, they are much deeper than what clay scuffing would leave behind.
So, if you just want to minimize the swirls you see, then use either Swirl or Scratch-X by hand. I will warn that both products are extremely tiring to use by hand because both require several minutes per section in order to breakdown properly and effectively. Note that all of your swirls will not be gone after hand-polishing (unless they are truly are exclusively from claying, which I doubt). However, they will be diminished which may be enough for you (especially on PW).
------
As for your clay technique, MLWagner explained it pretty well already but if you want something you can print out, visit our website where we have a clay article (includes why and how it is used):
All About Clay
------
As for lube spray, as was already mentioned, you can also use most QD sprays (any auto parts store Quick Detail spray product will do). Most people find that they have favorite clay lube sprays after they've clayed a few times. Functionally though, QDs will work just fine too. In a pinch, you can also add some car wash soap to water in a spray bottle. This will usually cause the clay to break down prematurely but can be great in a pinch. (the amount you add to the water depends on the brand of the soap)
I hope that helps! Good luck! Remember, you can always give us a call if you want some one-on-one help too.
-Heather
Heather - can you tell us more about your horse dream? How is your relationship with your dogs? Have you ever dreamed you were teaching a detailing class and had forgot to put on your ... sheepskin mitt and what did you think I was going to ask? What is the first word that comes to mind when I say Glide? How about Nourish? Do you feel you are a nurturing person? How do you think most people perceive you? Are you now taking or have you ever taken aspirin?
Well just as I thought. Based on the answered questions I believe with utmost certainty that you are obsessed with cleaning and shiny things due to a traumatic horse accident. Don't be concerned however - we like it!
Well just as I thought. Based on the answered questions I believe with utmost certainty that you are obsessed with cleaning and shiny things due to a traumatic horse accident. Don't be concerned however - we like it!
Heather - can you tell us more about your horse dream? How is your relationship with your dogs? Have you ever dreamed you were teaching a detailing class and had forgot to put on your ... sheepskin mitt and what did you think I was going to ask? What is the first word that comes to mind when I say Glide? How about Nourish? Do you feel you are a nurturing person? How do you think most people perceive you? Are you now taking or have you ever taken aspirin?
Well just as I thought. Based on the answered questions I believe with utmost certainty that you are obsessed with cleaning and shiny things due to a traumatic horse accident. Don't be concerned however - we like it!
Well just as I thought. Based on the answered questions I believe with utmost certainty that you are obsessed with cleaning and shiny things due to a traumatic horse accident. Don't be concerned however - we like it!
are you crazy?
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 778
Likes: 1
From: Anaheim, CA
A little closer to the original posters question. I have used Finish and Amigo by hand, I've only done my roof, it is a bit of work but it's not horrible. Plus you get to say I did that with my own two hands.
Here's a post of mine from another thread showing the results from Finish and Amigo by hand. You can still see swirls but they are greatly diminished.
Pics here
I now have Swirl that will be my starting poing the next time I get the urge to polish.
Here's a post of mine from another thread showing the results from Finish and Amigo by hand. You can still see swirls but they are greatly diminished.
Pics here
I now have Swirl that will be my starting poing the next time I get the urge to polish.
Last edited by AudioNToxication; Sep 21, 2007 at 11:33 PM. Reason: spelling
Banned
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,759
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From: Denver, CO
Heather - can you tell us more about your horse dream? How is your relationship with your dogs? Have you ever dreamed you were teaching a detailing class and had forgot to put on your ... sheepskin mitt and what did you think I was going to ask? What is the first word that comes to mind when I say Glide? How about Nourish? Do you feel you are a nurturing person? How do you think most people perceive you? Are you now taking or have you ever taken aspirin?
Well just as I thought. Based on the answered questions I believe with utmost certainty that you are obsessed with cleaning and shiny things due to a traumatic horse accident. Don't be concerned however - we like it!
Well just as I thought. Based on the answered questions I believe with utmost certainty that you are obsessed with cleaning and shiny things due to a traumatic horse accident. Don't be concerned however - we like it!
Thanks for your insight Chuck! That was very special.... I think.
-Heather
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Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Denver, CO
A little closer to the original posters question. I have used Finish and Amigo by hand, I've only done my roof, it is a bit of work but it's not horrible. Plus you get to say I did that with my own two hands.
Here's a post of mine from another thread showing the results from Finish and Amigo by hand. You can still see swirls but they are greatly diminished.
Here's a post of mine from another thread showing the results from Finish and Amigo by hand. You can still see swirls but they are greatly diminished.
carla99- For apples-to-apples, keep in mind that AudioNT used Amigo as well as Finish. Amigo fills and conceals swirls rather nicely. So, it's likely that while AudioNT did remove some level of swirls with the abrasive (Finish in this case) he also followed with Amigo.
The two products working together is what you are looking at in his photos... a little of both and not just the abrasive by itself.
Just something to keep in mind as you do your comparisons.
-Heather
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