Hello everyone,
I'm a rookie in GS this year and need tire advice. I've been through a couple of schools and my street tires are just about shot, so I'm debating on what tires are the best bet. TireRack seems to be getting rid of the Hoosier S04 at $119 a pop. While the ever-popular Kumho 710 seems to be the hot tire, but runs around $150+. What do you guys think. In our region we run at the Wendover airport with some of the roughest concrete you'll ever see. So I'm not sure how long I should expect either tire to last, so I'm really looking into life. Any experience between the two? I know this post, https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=45979 shows the debate, but no in stone conclusions for the year. Anyway, any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Matt

 

I'm on 80+ Pro Solo runs with a set of V710's (still haven't been flipped), don't expect more than 30 of the same runs...AFTER flipping them.

It's very clear to me that Kumho is doing something right for longevity on camber challenged cars and we're back to a tire that hardens from heat-cycles well before it cords. However, they still need to be kept very cool for best performance (under 100 degrees).
Maybe, just maybe, the Hoosier might handle heat slightly better, but the ultimate grip and number of runs is definitely superior in the V710.

Now, if you could only get a hold of a set of 215/40R16's...

Brian

 

Kumho's period... You will cord the Hoosiers at Wendover in two events.

The other option is the r3s04 hoosier that is supposed to wear a little better, but $$$

I don't know anything about Toyo fitments, but that would be another option for a long lasting tire.

 

The only thing the R3S04 will be better for in Wendover is handling the heat. While others are spraying their Kumhos, you'd be happy letting the Hoosiers heat up.

However, you're definitely giving up ultimate grip, and after having gotten so many runs out of the Kumhos, I'm not sure you're getting any extra life from the R3S04.

I would still recommend the Hoosier R3S04 if it's always HOT (over 100 degrees) or you're too lazy to spray the tires.

(Notice we're referring to the ROAD RACE "R" compound of the Hoosier, not the Autocross "A" compound)

As for Toyo RA-1's, they're really too tall (225/50R16 or 205/55R16), but they'll fit and last forever.

Brian

 

Do the R3S04's suffer from the same edge cording issue?

 

Yes, they do. However, it's MUCH further down the road. I actually got about 90+ runs from my last set of R's, but they may have hardened significantly which is why.

They still have their place, if they're heat cycled correctly and not allowed to overheat too badly (over about 180 degrees).

For driver's in hot areas driving local events, I'd still recommend these. I would just expect to loose about .5 to cooled Kumhos on HOT days.

Brian

 

The V710's suck! I wouldn't put them on a crap wagon. Especially the 215/40/16. Very VERY bad. Mess you up! They are slick, slimy, nasty, smelly, and the ugliest tire on the market. Overpriced and will give you warts and in some cases chicken pocks even if you've already had them. One run and they become so radioactive that they need to be approached with a lead apron for removal. Really scary!!!!!

















WTB- All the KUMHO V710 215/40/16's I can find. Call Curt @ (423)329-5570.







Everything Brian said is exactly what I have found. Grip like the '03 Hoosier and wear like a Victoracer. Just spray them well, after your first run...and call me when you find some!

 

There is new information regarding 710's.
It is important for all non NW region drivers to avoid these dangerous tires at all costs.
Scotty B White has prepared a special vaccine that he has distributed to us NW region drivers that protects us against the special hazards(extreme speed) that these tires cause.
We get very thirsty while using this potion but we must avoid water or we go crazy. Beer and Red wine seem to be ok though. Kansas strippers seem to help soothe the jitters too....
Same thing happens to us when we drink water that happened to Speed Racer when he drove the GRX against his fathers will after the motor that no human could drive was unearthed from the graveyard.
Chim-Chim had a problem with a Kart too.
Contact any NW Region driver to get rid of all your new 710's!!!
Symptons are especially bad if you are switching from Hoosier to Kumho for your first time.
FM
Side note: Scotty now has the GRX motor in his autox Viper running 495/35/17's 710's on the rear....or something like that.

 

Will the 40 series fit on the stock 6.5 rims? The recomennded rim size is 7+. The next size up (the 50's) show as fitting a 6.5 rim, but I want smaller to fight the damn high gearing. What are people doing?

 

Running the 215/40R16's on 16x6.5 rims with no problems.

 

Hmmm, from what I'm hearing so far, the Kumho's will last longer than the the Hoosier. I also have the price to contend with, especially since the R's are getting out from the A's. They just seem a bit more affordable....if there is such a thing on comp tires. Anyway, I'm in the same boat as you guys....waiting patiently for the 710's to be available. I just hope I can get a set before the end of this month. But, we'll have to wait and see.

 

The 215/40/16 will fit on the 6.5" wide wheel... But it is a ROYAL PITA to get them on. They work nicely once they're mounted though

Edit, I'm not nationally competitive by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't see any reason to run anything other than V710's right now (well, unless you can't get them, that is )

 

I have found the same to be true on my 1st set of 710's. So far, I have 74 runs on some very abrasive concrete. I would anticipate I will get close to 100 runs before they cord. My events so far include Salina, KS concrete, Preu concrete, Denver Concrete and Topeka Concrete at Forbes Field where we ran last years nationals south course, my times indicate they are indeed still very competitive when compared to last years DS times at nationals as well as at this years event compared to DS times with Fitzpatrick competiting in DS. Even though my 710's had between 63-74 runs on them, they still were sticky, WITH THE EXCEPTION of my 1st 2 runs and my co-drivers 1st 2 runs after flipping them. Once flipped, you really need to make about 4-6 runs before they settle back in it seems.


Craig Wilcox

 

Craig,

How many runs before you flipped? I have about 30 runs on mine right now. I was planning to flip at around 40. When do you recommend flipping them?

Joe

 

I flipped them at 63 runs. That was on VERY abrasive concrete for probably 44 of those runs. I'd say your OK for 60+ runs, these 710's are freakin awesome and a financial savior for us Mini owners that like to compete!!!


Like I said though, the first 4-6 runs, the tires just don't have the same grip while your waiting for them to scrub back in evenly on the outside 1/3 of the tire I assume.

Anyone else feel something weird for the first few runs after flipping?

I'd recomend re-scrubbing them if you have a big event. I was lucky enough to nail my 3rd run at our Midwest Divisional Championship with a 1.2 second drop in time due to the better grip/feel.

Craig

 

Will be making the switch from A3SO3s to 710s for Nationals. (will do one event on the Kumhos before Topeka to scrub them in ) . For those that have run both, should I run the less pressure than with the Hoosiers, more pressure, or the same pressure?

 

Flipping them earlier should decrease the amount of runs it takes to get them back to normal. That being said, has anyone corded an edge on these? The pair we corded, the cords started showing in one of the middle groove, not the edge.

 

Like I said, we're at 80+ Pro runs and not flipped, haven't even seen a sign of cording yet. I'll be running the same set at a local event this weekend with three drivers, let's see if they last through that.

V710's require a lot less pressure than any Hoosier I've ever run (think Victoracer and you'll be in the ballpark).
In Toledo, we ran about 35-36psi and got fine pyrometer readings. Who knows if that's the fastest though. We found 38psi best in Oscoda but were still dropping after 50+ runs.

Yes, it's true, the MINI finally has a tire that's reasonable in cost and life. If only I planned on sticking around
Brian

 

What?!?!?!?

So, whats in store for 06?

Craig

 

This is all great information about the 710 and I'm sold on it.....now my only problem is getting my hands on a set. If any of you have any idea where I could pick some up....please let me know. I already had to bail on my divisionals cause I scrambled last minute to find a good tire, and they are on big time backorder through Tirerack. It looks like they've been pushed out to mid Sept. Waaaay too late for me. If I can't find a set, I might just buy myself a set of Azenis to get me through this year. It's a street tire, but I don't want to drop 190+ for Hoosiers if they're just going to cord on me after a couple of events. Any suggestions?

Thanks

Matt

 

Matt, the Hoosier R3S04 will last an entire season, no problem. Just make sure you heat cycle them first, run high enough pressures (52psi front), and rotate them religiously. At the first sign of cording, flip them inside out. Doing this, you should have no trouble doing as many as 10 events on them, maybe even more.

If I was 100% sure what I was doing next year, I'd send you some used R's for a good deal, but I'm still not positive.

Craig, with the JCW becoming factory, and the very strong theory of the SAC not willing to have three winning MINI's (JCW in D Stock), it's looking very good for the '05 LSD to end up in D Stock. If that's the case, I'm out of options and will not have the means to move up. I guess moving down to HS might be an option, but there's a shake up happening there as well and I'm not about to buy a slow Cooper which may end up uncompetitive as well.
Anyhow, at this point, there's a very good chance I'll be going from the 2nd slowest class to the 2nd fastest class...

Brian

 

F125 ? Bm ?

 

The former, but I don't know for sure yet. I'm waiting to see how my wife likes it.

It's inevitable since both my kids are in karts and I've already proved to myself that I can drive them http://solo.wdcr-scca.org/results/20050730.php

Brian

 

Further V710 longevity

The V710's that were used in Fontana initially have finally corded.

A total of 122 runs were had, about 50 were ProSolo and National Tour runs. Then they were used for local SCCA events, then they were set aside for local BMW events.

A few weeks ago we went to the track with the 03 cooper S, and I took the V710's along. After two laps scrubbing the crud off them I got 4 qualifying laps in. The Mini was within 0.5 sec of my best time at Second Creek.

I then abused them for the Time Trials session. more than a dozen laps, never let them cool, ran hard. After 5 or 6 laps I could see some of the rubber coming off under hard braking. When I returned to the pits there was cord visible on both fronts. All the cord was in the center of the tire, nowhere near the edges. Even with about 15% of the tread missing the tires were still within a second of qualifying time.

You will heat cycle them to death before you wear them out.

hearing the backorder nightmares, I am glad I abused my plastic early in the season. Four fresh sets of V710's are waiting for September. That should also take care of all my local events for 2006.

Grant

 

Garfield

Hey, what if the JCW doesn't come with a 16" option, I would think that would kill the 06 JCW, or at least level the playing field, even WITH the added power. What do you think? I've ran my 05 on 17's and feel its significantly slower compared to 16's I think, but, sometimes feeling can be decieving so who knows.

Craig