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-   -   D Stock DS Mini, competitiveness swan song? (https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/d-stock/332062-ds-mini-competitiveness-swan-song.html)

eschantra 10-01-2018 02:44 AM

DS Mini, competitiveness swan song?
 
Long story short, I ran my 2008 R56 at last week's NERSCCA event at Devens and got slaughtered. Felt I drove okay, softened up the RSB as the car was wicked twitchy last event and even switched to 215/45-17 RE-71Rs from the Nexen 16" tires I had on the car before (which I didn't like), and while the car was fun to drive, I was 3.6 seconds off on PAX. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'm the world's greatest autocrosser, but if you see something I don't and think I lost three seconds somewhere, please tell me :razz:


A better driver would probably find some time in the transitions, and my car, while it has the JCW suspension kit, does not have the power kit or an LSD, which really hurt off the corners. But what really shocked me was when I checked the PAX numbers and saw that DS was now almost as fast as FS. Didn't we used to be slower than ES, back before Scroggs and the CTR started destroying everyone? Hats off to my friends Javier and Stephanie for winning DS and DSL at Nats this year in their Type R, but I don't see the Mini competing with them, being down 50% on power.

Maybe it's time to write the SEB and see if we can't get the Cooper S moved back to GS. My consolation prize was that I was the top PAXing Mini, though there was a justa in HS, that looked prepped with Tire Rack and other stickers on it, which came close.

Burglar 10-02-2018 07:13 AM

I think the Mini is still competitive on certain types of courses. The trend towards high speed, open courses hurts against 270hp Camaros and 305hp Civics with better tire to weight ratios. And the Mini just gets murdered in fast sweepers with all of the weight on one skinny front tire with no camber.

It does have the guts down low to dig itself out of low speed holes just fine.

Where the Mini still blows those cars out of the water is in ticky-tack transitions. Chicago boxes, lane changes, thread-the needle bits, and slaloms the Mini can haul the biscuits. I'm no gem of a driver but I was 3rd fastest on the west course in 2017 behind Scroggs (2017 champ) and Sparks (2016 champ.) Being the smallest and lightest car does have its advantages.

We'll see how the proposed moves work out. I think there's more speed in the FoRS with development in the shocks, but that's based on how the e-shock rule plays out. I'd really love to try an Evo 9 if that makes the move but finding a DS legal one of those looks near impossible.

I think the Mini is too fast for current GS. And there's no upside to putting an old, hard to find properly optioned, unreliable car into a position where it could be a potential overdog. That's a great way to kill a class outright. See how the Mini is getting booted from STX for an example of how serious SCCA is about protecting well subscribed classes.

eschantra 10-14-2018 05:36 AM


Originally Posted by Burglar (Post 4423902)
Where the Mini still blows those cars out of the water is in ticky-tack transitions. Chicago boxes, lane changes, thread-the needle bits, and slaloms the Mini can haul the biscuits. I'm no gem of a driver but I was 3rd fastest on the west course in 2017 behind Scroggs (2017 champ) and Sparks (2016 champ.) Being the smallest and lightest car does have its advantages.

I think the Mini is too fast for current GS. And there's no upside to putting an old, hard to find properly optioned, unreliable car into a position where it could be a potential overdog. That's a great way to kill a class outright. See how the Mini is getting booted from STX for an example of how serious SCCA is about protecting well subscribed classes.

That I can believe, as I couldn't believe how much speed I was able to carry through that little offset at :36. Though I'm not 100% sure about GS, but my view is a little tainted. My friend Brian, an Evo instructor, 2013 FS champ, and trophy winner in GS with his FoST, once codrove my Mini at a local event. My car was bone stock with just Federal 595 RS-RRs at the time, but he was way faster in the Focus, like over two seconds faster on a 50 second course. Could the Mini have more than made up the difference if it'd been prepped? I guess we'll never know.

There's a Chevy dealer not too far from my MA house that blows out their inventory, and I could snag a brand new 2019 i4 Camaro for like $20k including destination. I think the dealer's a front, and those of us who've worked in the car business at other dealers have heard stories, but if their prices are true, it's tempting. But I'd have to trade the Mini, and the last thing I need living in Boston is another ponycar. Besides, the Mini is just so much fun. It's also my safe go-to for doing a track day somewhere I'm intimidated by and not familiar with, like when I ran CotA for the first time. It's easy to drive and probably won't get me in trouble.

rad63 11-04-2018 08:40 PM


Originally Posted by Burglar (Post 4423902)
See how the Mini is getting booted from STX for an example of how serious SCCA is about protecting well subscribed classes.

Could you please comment on that? I'm looking for a STX prepared car, and it'd be unfortunate to buy a prepared CooperS and hear in 2 months that I'm now in SM.

Burglar 11-05-2018 04:47 AM


Originally Posted by rad63 (Post 4430395)
Could you please comment on that? I'm looking for a STX prepared car, and it'd be unfortunate to buy a prepared CooperS and hear in 2 months that I'm now in SM.

In the July Fast Track:


#24601 Specific model / year classing for the Mini’s The STAC is soliciting member feedback on moving the second generation (2007- 2013) mini Cooper S (and JCW) to STU. The first generation (2001-2007) Cooper S and JCW would stay in STX while the turbocharged 2nd and 3rd gen cars move to STU. The STAC feels the gen 2 turbo cars would be too fast for STH and would also be significantly lighter than the other cars in the class.

Modify listings in Appendix A as follows:
STU
Mini
Cooper S & Cooper S JCW (2007-2013)
Cooper (non-S) (2014-2015)

STX
Mini
Cooper S & Cooper S JCW (incl. 2004-05 dealer-installed) (2001-2006)
Even though it's just "out for comment" I would strongly suggest you do not purchase a Mini with the intent of running STX.

rad63 11-05-2018 09:46 AM


Originally Posted by Burglar (Post 4430414)
Even though it's just "out for comment" I would strongly suggest you do not purchase a Mini with the intent of running STX.

When is this finalized? I guess I should wait a bit.
STU doesn't make sense at all, because Cooper is by no means overdog in STX.
Is there anything else what makes Cooper bad for STX?

eschantra 11-05-2018 02:42 PM


Originally Posted by rad63 (Post 4430492)
When is this finalized? I guess I should wait a bit.
STU doesn't make sense at all, because Cooper is by no means overdog in STX.
Is there anything else what makes Cooper bad for STX?

If I'm reading the rules right, the MCS would go to STH:

“Catch-all”:
Sedans & Coupes NOC (non-sports-car-based; 4-seat minimum; up to 2.5L forced-induction)

I've ridden in the STi that finished second twice in STU, and trust me, the Mini has no chance.

rad63 11-05-2018 02:46 PM


Originally Posted by eschantra (Post 4430589)
If I'm reading the rules right, the MCS would go to STH:

“Catch-all”:
Sedans & Coupes NOC (non-sports-car-based; 4-seat minimum; up to 2.5L forced-induction)

No, MCS doesn't fall under NOC because it is listed under STX.

eschantra 11-05-2018 05:31 PM


Originally Posted by rad63 (Post 4430591)
No, MCS doesn't fall under NOC because it is listed under STX.

I thought this whole discussion was about the proposal regarding the turbo mini getting booted out of STX. In which case it would go to STH. Or did the proposal specifically put the Mini in STU? Too many thoughts going through my head to keep straight right now.

Burglar 11-06-2018 04:53 AM


Originally Posted by eschantra (Post 4430589)
If I'm reading the rules right, the MCS would go to STH:

If you read my quote from Fast Track, they feel the R56 is too fast for STH. Or, I guess more specifically, too light.

The car is being killed off in ST, unless you want to be a tiny local lot hero in STU.

Part of me thinks a GP2 clone build could be competitive in DSP, with the JCW turbo on big boost, The GP aero and underbelly stuff with a good splitter, and if the 295/35-15 Hoosier fit up front. But that would be an expensive experiment for a dying category.

rad63 11-06-2018 09:49 AM


Originally Posted by Burglar (Post 4430700)
If you read my quote from Fast Track, they feel the R56 is too fast for STH. Or, I guess more specifically, too light.

The car is being killed off in ST, unless you want to be a tiny local lot hero in STU.

Why can't it be left in STX?

Burglar 11-06-2018 09:54 AM

Because the Twins are sacred cows.

jetsr6 11-10-2018 05:14 AM

When do they make the decisions on classes? My buddy has been running in DS this year with a 07 and did pretty good with the Federal rsrr's He wanted to go STX but looks like that not going to work now.


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