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D Street - Rim Sizes

  #1  
Old 04-06-2014, 04:14 PM
mkochjr
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D Street - Rim Sizes

So I went out to Chicago's Learning Curve beginners training thing and feel I did pretty well for running on nearly bald Continental run flats.

What are my options on wheel sizes to stay in D Stock? 16x6.5? 17x7?

What offset do they need to be?

Good tire recommendations? I've heard RE11's or the Z2's. What size to mate with the recommended wheel size that will also keep me in D Stock?

Anyone going to the first event next weekend?

*Looking into it more and considering the TPMS sensors and stuff I may just get new tires to put on ym current stock rims. Should I go 205 or 215 in that case?
 

Last edited by mkochjr; 04-06-2014 at 05:39 PM. Reason: addmoreinfo
  #2  
Old 04-07-2014, 08:42 AM
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whatever rims u can get stock + or - 1" in diameter. i.e., you can go with a 15x6.5 or a 16x7. offset has to be within 6mm of stock.

Tires, probably want to go with rivals or z2s. may also consider re11a, rs3, or toyo r1r.

I will be attending Chicago's first event 4/13.

I'd go 205s if u're considering anything less than 7"


How was the learning curve btw?
 
  #3  
Old 04-07-2014, 09:20 AM
mkochjr
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Speaking to someone at Tirerack it doesn't look like my TPMS are in the tire so I think I am going to go ahead and get 16x7 wheels.

Can I go with a 215 on 16x7?
 
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Old 04-07-2014, 09:25 AM
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yes, but i think there are better options in 205
 
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Old 04-07-2014, 09:35 AM
mkochjr
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Ok thanks. I'll take a look at what they have.
 
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Old 04-07-2014, 09:57 AM
mkochjr
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Would you recommend 50 height or 45 for the tires?
 
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Old 04-07-2014, 10:11 AM
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i went with 50. a lot go with 45 for shorter gearing, but i think for the s 50 will be fine. wont matter much at the beginner level
 
  #8  
Old 04-07-2014, 11:01 AM
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I just noticed your question but the Learning Curve was pretty awesome. SO much seat time. I was exhausted by the time I got home.

They have the results for the mock event linked in the registration page but currently the link doesn't work. I'm hoping they post it up.

The first day was about an hour in a classroom going over what to expect and then we spent the next day and a half out on the track. You get assigned an instructor who rides with you and gives you pointers. We split the course into 2 sections on Saturday and then ran a mock event with the instructors also running their cars on Sunday.

I finished about 40something overall out of 95+ on my stock bald run flats. I'm hoping some sticker tires will help. It's looking like rain this weekend though so that will be an interesting first real event for me. I was about 3-4 seconds off in actual clock time for the fastest D Street car there if I recall correctly. The fastest car they had overall ran 8 seconds better on the clock. It was the Porsche GT3 that I'm sure you saw if you've ever attended any of the events in Chicago.

I ended up getting some 16x7's and some Dunlop ZII's in 205/50 as some of the other tires I was comparing didn't have sizes that would fit. They say they should be here Thursday so I hope all goes well.
 
  #9  
Old 04-07-2014, 11:10 AM
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great, sounds like a great experience. That's the exact same setup I'm running for wheels/tires FYI. See you on 4/13
 
  #10  
Old 04-07-2014, 11:40 AM
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I see you have a thread with a bunch of information on builds and driving tips.

I shot a video with a cheap camera so its not the greatest but any tips you can give?

I want to work on being smoother, braking earlier so I get less understeer, and working on throttle control. I was getting tons of spin coming out of the corners. Most of the entry squealing was due to my aggressive entries.

Here is the video:


Also this is going to be very similar to the track they are running on week 1 if not identical.

I know I'll have a lot more grip on the new tires and rims so I'll have to readjust this weekend.
 
  #11  
Old 04-07-2014, 11:46 AM
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Camera's fine, but I'd definitely mount it higher up next time - Can barely see the course when you accelerate lol

I mean pretty much exactly as you said, you'll probably need to work on smoother steering inputs and throttle control. Roll onto the throttle whenever you get on it - don't mash it. And you're right, will be worlds different with the new wheels & tires. Try to drive the tires on the road as soon as u get them, just to break them in a little. Never push on the street though.
 
  #12  
Old 04-07-2014, 08:48 PM
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We're running 16x7 wheels with ZII tires in 225/45-16 in HS, I'd probably do the same if the 16"s would fit if we wanted to run in DS. (16"s don't fit our JCW.)

I wouldn't go with RE-11. We tested RE-11 vs BFG Rivals, the BFG were convincingly faster. (Again, this is an HS car.) Then we tested the Rivals vs the ZII. The ZII were faster. Though we only had 205 (/45-16) RE-11, there isn't a suitable 225 size. I don't think the 225/50-16 would fit.

(And I'd also avoid RE-11A, all my experience is they're not as good as the RE-11. We ran those on the JCW at a fun run event, and I don't think I was faster than I could have been in the Cooper on Rivals.)
 
  #13  
Old 04-08-2014, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by mkochjr View Post
I shot a video with a cheap camera so its not the greatest but any tips you can give?

I want to work on being smoother, braking earlier so I get less understeer, and working on throttle control. I was getting tons of spin coming out of the corners. Most of the entry squealing was due to my aggressive entries.
Definitely mount the camera up higher so we can see where the course is going. I actually like to mount it on top of the car in front of the sunroof. That way I can reach up to turn it on/off if necessary and it gets the whole course.

Your steering inputs get kind of "snappy" towards the end so work on smoothing those out. The new tires should fix a lot of your inside wheelspin. Hard to tell but remember to be smooth on the brake application and release. Too stabby on the brake pedal will upset the car and cause a bunch of understeer into the corner. You're late on all of the slalom cones so work on getting on the backside of those cones. Remember for sweepers it's typically slow in fast out and and just in general tight and tidy is key. Keep as close to the cones as you can possibly can especially in transitional elements. Extra distance is just extra time.

Oh and look ahead. Way way way farther ahead than you're currently looking.

All in though it's not a bad run. Keep at it and you'll keep improving
 
  #14  
Old 04-08-2014, 09:21 AM
mkochjr
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Originally Posted by Btwyx View Post
We're running 16x7 wheels with ZII tires in 225/45-16 in HS, I'd probably do the same if the 16"s would fit if we wanted to run in DS. (16"s don't fit our JCW.)
I went with the d2's. The rims and tires actually already arrived. I ordered them yesterday at noon. to Tirerack.

I wasn't sure if 225's would fit so I just went with the 205's. I stopped and got a torque wrench so I'm going to throw them on to put some miles on them before I leave work today. Have to break them in some before this weekend.

Should I treat tire break in like engine break in and be easy on them or just do some light spirited driving to wear them in some?
 
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by v10climber View Post
Definitely mount the camera up higher so we can see where the course is going. I actually like to mount it on top of the car in front of the sunroof. That way I can reach up to turn it on/off if necessary and it gets the whole course.

Your steering inputs get kind of "snappy" towards the end so work on smoothing those out. The new tires should fix a lot of your inside wheelspin. Hard to tell but remember to be smooth on the brake application and release. Too stabby on the brake pedal will upset the car and cause a bunch of understeer into the corner. You're late on all of the slalom cones so work on getting on the backside of those cones. Remember for sweepers it's typically slow in fast out and and just in general tight and tidy is key. Keep as close to the cones as you can possibly can especially in transitional elements. Extra distance is just extra time.

Oh and look ahead. Way way way farther ahead than you're currently looking.

All in though it's not a bad run. Keep at it and you'll keep improving
I was in a hurry when mounting the camera so that was the quickest place I came up with. Obviously the nose picked up too much during acceleration to see anything. I am going to mess with a sunroof mount today to see if I can get a better angle.

Any videos on what a good run through the slalom should look like? Some of the better guys make it look so smooth. I'm curious to see what mine looks like from the outside. If it looks as jerky as it is on the inside to me.

I'm feeling pretty confident and want to work on all the things you mentioned. If I condition myself to look ahead further then I will be able to set up my entries and get my braking done earlier to allow a smoother steering input and more exit speed. I think I definitely need more speed out of that sweeper. I'm hoping the tires help with that some too by allowing me to hook up better and still carry the speed I want through the corner.

Thanks for the advice!
 
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:09 AM
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Just pulling something off the web real quick here is Sam Strano running his GrandSport Corvette at the Blytheville ProSolo last year. Won Super Stock and PAXd 13th out of 157 at this event. He's a multiple time National Champ and teaches for Evolution Driving School. Look at how close he is to the cones. Now think about how much wider a corvette is than a mini. Also note how pretty much every time he passes a cone he's already turned and pointing the direction he wants to go. No turning after passing the cone.

Also, it's kind of hard to tell but his steering inputs are still very smooth. They have to be "quick" because of the stupid amounts of speed but they're never "snappy". You're jerking the wheel instead of smoothly initiating turn-in.

Keep in mind this is a ProSolo so Sammy did a burnout before the start and there is a drag-race style start.

 
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:18 AM
mkochjr
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I'll have to learn how to feel how close I am to the cones. I'm always nervous of getting to close in the slalom.

This is good info though thanks.
 
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:23 PM
mkochjr
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She's got 115k on her stock suspension so I'm sure that isn't in the springiest shape but it'll do for the first year.
 

Last edited by mkochjr; 04-08-2014 at 01:24 PM. Reason: adding info
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mkochjr View Post
I'll have to learn how to feel how close I am to the cones. I'm always nervous of getting to close in the slalom.
That's why we have "cone cams". As well as the main camera which is mounted in the cabin and you can see the driver as well as the course, there are two more mounted behind the rear wheels. Then you can see how close you're getting. I just reviewed my weekend's effort, its terrible. I'm leaving 6" to a foot at each important cone. No wonder I lost.

http://btwyx.com/Movies/AxNatsSDSatBest.mov

With slaloms, if you feel like you're in control, you're not going fast enough. We did a slalom exercise at a school last year. Losts of repetitions, and that was my main take away. Keep your foot down until you're going too fast to make then lift. Widely spaced slaloms (100ft or so) don't usually phase an HS MINI, and I can take them flat. If you get to an interesting speed, its turn-blip, turn-blip, you blip the throttle passing each cone to keep the speed up to the point you're almost losing control. The slalom in the above movie was fast very wide, 130ft, but the entry was fast which made the last cone interesting. Looking at the data (on the video) I lifted much earlier than I thought I did. (Or the data isn't synchronized.) No wonder I was so slow.
 
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Btwyx View Post
That's why we have "cone cams". As well as the main camera which is mounted in the cabin and you can see the driver as well as the course, there are two more mounted behind the rear wheels. Then you can see how close you're getting. I just reviewed my weekend's effort, its terrible. I'm leaving 6" to a foot at each important cone. No wonder I lost.

http://btwyx.com/Movies/AxNatsSDSatBest.mov

With slaloms, if you feel like you're in control, you're not going fast enough. We did a slalom exercise at a school last year. Losts of repetitions, and that was my main take away. Keep your foot down until you're going too fast to make then lift. Widely spaced slaloms (100ft or so) don't usually phase an HS MINI, and I can take them flat. If you get to an interesting speed, its turn-blip, turn-blip, you blip the throttle passing each cone to keep the speed up to the point you're almost losing control. The slalom in the above movie was fast very wide, 130ft, but the entry was fast which made the last cone interesting. Looking at the data (on the video) I lifted much earlier than I thought I did. (Or the data isn't synchronized.) No wonder I was so slow.
I'll check out the movie when I get home. My work comp's network is too slow and I don't think it has anything to play .mov files.

I'll have to think about setting up a camera to see the cones to see how much closer I can get. Maybe I'll mount my fake GoPro on the side window and another camera inside to show steering inputs.
 
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