Check these MINIs out.They drive a fine line..NOT!!
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/E...50F83E7C09.htm

 

Not to ask a dumb question, but...
At Race #1 there were some eight cars on the starting line.
At race #2 there were four, I realize Brian's car and the Porsche were out due to "rubbing" and the wall, but what happened to the other 2 or so cars? I saw the Cruise America pack up and what appeared to be early?

Was it because of the "rubbing" or some other reason?

 

The one (Cruise America?) that rubbed the orange car went home with body damage and a broken shifter cable.

I don't recall the fourth car out.

 

But at least they had more than 7 cars running!

Matt

 

Gareth,

Thanks for taking the time to post your comments and welcome to NAM !

I would truly hope that this does not color your impressions of MINI owners overall. Most of us realized it was just a racing incident. No blame should be cast by anyone, let alone those not in attendance.

You definitely added a bit of legitimacy to the event.

Good luck with your season this year !

 

You can read my comments, as well as Dr. Mike's... You had a BEAUTIFUL line through that series that Dr. Mike and I tried our best to emulate in our other session. It was very, very fast!

No worries as far as I am concerned - you can't change directions that fast at speed...

 

What he said!!
Jim

 

Something to ponder... if it's not intentional... LIFT and AVOID the incident... hell I do that weekly to and from work.

Yeah I was there, I saw the incident, coming out of the final turn which is a series of 3... long sweeper to the right... hard brake...90 left... 90 right. The impact was on the straight... cant tell me massaging the wheel to the right even under wide open throttle wasn't an option and if that wouldn't have worked lifting briefly to safely avoid an impact was the other choice, not like there wasn't a good distance between 2nd and 3rd.

Sorry friends, I don't know either driver on a personal level and not a fanboy, I just call it as I see it. I feel bad for Bob, and bad for Way. Both teams have to put money back into a car out of thier own pocket while Gareth gets to go home and sip some tea.

 

Isnt it funny how so many people were there, yet saw something different. In my mind, the #4 car was slow through the esses,either by missing a downshift or locking the brakes. Then it looked like he bogged coming on to the straight causing the contact.
Jim

 

ROFLMAO!!!!

So the guy in front caused the accident... I gotta remember that one.

Wouldn't common sense dictate that the vehicle in the rear... with the viewing advantage be responsible for making evasive manuvers and or lifting/slowing to avoid the potential accident? I know it's a race however, if you are the fastest car on the track and the "professional" driver you would think lifting a bit, avoiding the incident, making the pass for the lead, and then dominating the field would be the best course of action... imho.

/rant off

 

I wasn't there, but I did want to interject as a racer. I know that on the street that sounds crazy, but in racing, the rules are different. When racing, if the guy in front of you makes a mistake, he can cause an accident. So while I don't know what happened, if someone missed a shift in fornt of you, and the line cannot be altered due to commitment, you may have no choice but to be involved in an accident. It is racing, where you are at 10/10ths, so if things go wrong, there is no margin for corrections. That is why it is so important to know and trust the guys you are racing with if you are commiting to the line full tilt alongside someone. If you don't, give room...

Randy

 

There are lots and lots and lots of races when something in the car in front cause lots of carnage behind. Let's see... if during the start of a race, the leader stomps on the brakes, and there's a pile up. The guy in front CAN cause accidents. Every racer assumes that the guy in front will do something akin to staying on power and on line coming out of a turn. If they don't, all hell brakes loose!

I was at the start finish and it did look like the lead car slowed unexpectedly. But I was far enough from the action that I couldn't judge the lines of the cars. They were just too far away.

I guess with armchair racing, it's just too easy to be right.

Matt

 

Well said, I guess in the end we all have our own perception of the situation, our unique perceptions are our individual realities. By no means am I a pro racer, and I wasn't behind the wheel of either car, just sad to see what was a good competitive race turn ugly.

Jimz... sorry for the ridicule... I was out of line.

And Matt... yeah... I was on that track all day long...I passed several people without incident.

 

Thank You.
While I'm not a race driver, I have spent more than a few days at the track. Either as a photographer or as a Nationally Licensed Turn Marshall. (15 years)
As a Turn Marshall, I've had to write up Incident Reports. That's how I would have written that one.
Jim

 

Unfortunately 'lifting a bit' in no way puts you in a position to 'make a pass for the lead'. The cars were pretty evenly matched in power, so the only place to make up time was in the corners.
I'm not a racer - because I think the way you do.

 

Gareth agreed to help out with the repair cost on Way's car.

-Brian

 

WOW ! !

Now how's that for an example of sportsmanship of the MINI kind !

Well done Gareth.

 

Cornering at the limit (and knowing Gareth he was at the limit and really cooking), "lifting a bit" will translate into oversteer. That isn't likely to help the situation much if the car to the outside of you has slowed unexpectedly. The end of a corner will actually be out on "the straight" if you are carrying maximum speed and thus trying to use all of the track.

Honestly, the contact is a great example of why you should never drive like this on the street. On the street the following driver should have done exactly as suggested by SDMike. No question. But on the track in a real race and not a HPDE or something of the like, then it is the responsibility of the slower driver (especially one with mechanical problems) to get the hell out of the way before he causes a wreck. Again in the case, it sounds like there may not have been time or room to do so. That's why insurance carriers don't want to talk about insuring race cars on track. This stuff just happens.

Scott
90SM

 

Now that I am back home I can chime in on what happened during the race. I was in 3rd place directly behind Gareth and saw the whole thing happen (to my car) As Gareth exited the last turn the car in front of him suddenly slowed, in the race line, and Gareth turned right to go around accidentally clipping the the corner of the leading car with the Left front corner of the his car. I was right behind as the pieces flew off and hit my car. First thought was oh **** that came off my car. Being behind Gareth I never saw him turn left to intentionally hit the other car. Also if your going to intentionally hit another car you don't use the corner of your own as it may cause you damage that would keep you from finishing. You would more likely use the middle of the front bumper, or a stronger part of the car rather a corner, look at the damage to Brian from a small tap. So I will not say that it was intentional at all. Seeing that I am the owner of the Orange car in question I have more right than anyone else to be upset and looking to blame as it was my car that was damaged the most. This was a racing incident simple as that. Do I wish it didn't happen? Yes, but this is racing and unfortunately these things do happen it is something that you have to think about when you consider going racing. Also everyone can say what they want now, but there was an in car camera in both of my cars. So we will be able to see what Gareth was doing from inside his car, then from my angle as I followed. The film won't lie.

 

Thanks for the input Way. You've been a real asset to the series, and (if it's not an insult) a gentleman.

 

Glad to hear Gareth made that offer and that Way wont be stuck with his entire bill.

Way... looking forward to the vids of the incident. Not for "proof" but for understanding.

As to my "lifting a bit" comments please udnerstand my perspective is not that of a "pro-race driver" nor is it from a kid who just got his license. I was on that very same track and spent quite a bit of time on it passing people at that exact spot on the track, I maintain that if you are signifigantly faster than the other cars on the track then avoiding the incident and using superior skill and equipment to win would have been the best course of action.

 

but most who saw it saw nothing that could have been avoided. Sometimes that's just the way it is. The vids will show that I think, within the bounds of perfect hindsight....

Matt

 

It is hard to imagine how much different racing is from trackdays. It is like the difference between trackdays and street driving. I did trackdays for many years before I raced for a few years. While you learn a lot at trackdays it just isn't the same as racing. The forces on a race prepared vehicle are so much greater and the time to react is so much less and you are all focused on getting to the front.

Trackdays are leisurely by comparison. Well that is unless it is your first trackday in which case it all feels so fast. You can back off and wait for a safe place to pass and wave as you go by during a trackday. I can remember backing off during a race when someone went off the track right in front of me and two people who chose not to back off passed me. That really made me unhappy and I tried not to do it again.

In any case I was there and saw what happened and it looked like one of those things that happens in racing. The front car bogged and the following car caught right up and couldn't move in time due to the lateral force coming out of the corner. I know we all see it from our own perspective but if we haven't been there and done that then our perspective isn't tuned to what is really happening.

 

As has been said before, the orange car was NOT significantly faster than the #4 car - they were prepared to the same level (it was Way's car, remember?)
It was not a track day. The two who were out front were out front because they were of similar skill and equipment level. It was not a case of a front runner passing a backmarker. They were neck and neck for several laps.

 

You all win!

You've changed my perception! Thanks for the enlightenment!