MOTD has a lot like me, I could give you a list of probably no less than 25 people, probably more who give enormous amounts of blood, sweat and tears (and money out of their pockets) to MOTD every year, so that Everyone can enjoy themselves.

Mark's costs, what we "paid" him for:

Credit card processing fees, his time for setting up our "products" in the NAM store and generating all reports, and dealing with all changes and headaches we threw his way.

It cost us less (money and time) to have Mark take care of all that stuff, than it would have if we had set it up through our club website, and we would not have had our event's participant lists integrated with the event planner.

 

Like Steve said, every event that goes thru Mark requires code to be created to process it via the NAM Store. Some he can reuse from previous years, some requires a little more work. Since everyone is paying with Visa, there are also processing fees involved. Then to boot, he took most of those proceeds and covered half of the tent fee so we could have the upper parking lot free.


To address the 5K donation that DCMM made in 2007. They did not intend on that happening. They had set the ticket cost and started selling tickets and at the last minute a large sponsor stepped forward to help out. At that time it was kinda too late to re-do the ticket cost, so when the dust settled, they had way more than they thought they would. Aslo keep in mind, they really were only gonna host the Welcome dinner that year, but since no one else was stepping up to host the Farewell dinner, they took on that also at the last minute to save the day.

 

I'm with you on the forced donation to enter the swap. I would say can that and have 50/50s and raffles where that money can be donated. More then likely next year if it is presented like it was this year I'll be drinking my beer on the porch

 

I gotta agree with that one too.

 

The transaction costs that our credit card processor charges me when we run things through the NAM store. My time for writing the code for getting it the products into the NAM store (lots o javascript to make sure we don't have foul ups), custom code for each group to run online reports and export out to Excel so they could manage their particular event. My flight out to Fontana, fuel costs while I'm there, staying 10 days this year. Depending on the particular event my "take" was between 6-10% for these events. Hardly enough to skip off to the Cayman Islands much less pay my mortgage, car payment, cloth my kids, etc. Remember, except for vendors, I one of the few people that work on this type of thing full time (and have since 2003).

The net here is that I have always tried to make it fair for everyone stepping up to assist in part of the event and also try to insure that the group helping, especially clubs, can generate some income to help support their club, their favorite charity, etc.

All the above said it is comments like the above that make my blood boil because there is not sufficient appreciation of all the time, code, energy, and negotiation/coordination with so many people to make this event come off. It is the primary reason that, before this year's event I NEVER wanted to do it again. Only in meeting those that did offer their time, energy, thanks, and constructive advice did I actually get interested in doing it again next year. Now I'm again unsure of having any type of involvement in the event.

I have to ask....I see that you neither registered or volunteered in any way for the event. Why is it that it is so easy to throw stones when you weren't involved in making this event come together?

 

My wife liked that the MOTD shirt was in a feminine cut (thanks). There was a little irritability in ordering two shirts al a carte, along with the passenger lanyards (if it's only a lanyard, don't call it a "package"? just a thought), but that only took about a half hour of frustration to navigate.

If folks are going to be on the porch, I'd like to get the band back together.

We were told there would be weekend guide handouts for the info booth, and that didn't happen.

 

news to me..I never heard about those..who told you about them?

 

Call,

Just like Mielnicki all Mark charged me for was the code and the credit card processing fee which he gets charged for. And I know that's legitimate as I know what Visa, MC and Discover charge for transactions. It was a minimal cost given the overall fees taken in for the swap.

Jibeho and Snooter,

I'll be sorry to see you guys absent from the swap next year. I'm not lowering the price and it'll be going to charity again.

History has shown me that people aren't that generous when you simply ask. If anyone would like to step up to run the swap and do it as a free or low-cost event I'd be willing to step aside. But as long as I'm involved I plan to keep it going as is. I won't raise the cost again but I won't lower it either unless the charity tells me they don't need the money.

 

We tried having "the band" on the porch last year and NO ONE showed up, even though there were many "gee, sure, I'll participate"s. This year, not a single soul even offered to play. It was successful 2 years ago, however, and went well with the Cigar Salon. We were able to make a donation to a group of musicians in New Orleans who had been all but wiped out by Katrina.

If you'd like to get the band together for next year's MOTD, feel free to do so. Just remember that, even though the Cigar Salon takes place OUTSIDE, ON the porch, there is always room there for more. The only confict I can see might have to do with the "Welcome Party" and music going on INSIDE, as many there do not share our "love of the leaf".

 

I never described it as a package. It was either the Driver Seat Registration or the Passenger seat registration. On the registration info page I listed what each would include. Al a carte is what people have wanted since the beginning of the event so we've kept it that way. As for weekend guides we've been delivering those electronically via email and here on the site prior to the event. This type of delivery is to keep costs down (I still pay someone to put the guide together). If we printed guides for everyone it would add additional cost to the event. For example:

The guide was 26 pages this year. Assuming that I could get double sided copies at a cost of $0.05 per page (double sided) that would result in a cost of $0.65 per copy. Given we had 639 registered I would probably have ordered 650 copies resulting in a cost of $422.50 excluding tax, fuel needed to pick them up (you would, at a minimum have to go to Maryville to pick them up since the weight of this many copies would make the shipping cost prohibitive). This doesn't include the amount I pay to the designer for their services in putting this together as well as all the other MOTD items like the grille badge design, cling design, etc.

You're probably asking why I went to this much detail. The reason is to demonstrate there there is a lot of consideration and planning that goes into something as simple as how we distribute the welcome guide.

Mark

 

Mark, if you had communicated this information more clearly much of this would be understood. Lord knows you have a great place to do it here on the board.

As for you getting your blood boiling over comments such as mine...chill out. You have to roll with the punches. Life can be a ***** sometimes especially when one purposely looks for a pat on the back. Like you have now made very clear you are the hired gun around here. You do it for a living. Most everyone else is a volunteer and must do it for the love of it.

As for my registration for the event...I registered my car. I didn't register for anything else because I didn't participate in anything else. Sure I came on the premises at Fontana to eat lunch and I made purchases from some of the vendors but you got your cut out of that so that shouldn't be an issue.

As for my volunteering for the 2008 MOTD event...I've done my part in past years and would still be involved if it hadn't been turned into such a commercial, money making enterprise. That's not what it was founded on. I remember the early years...I'm not so sure you want to go there. Besides, I was busy volunteering for a number of unofficial events that didn't cost anyone a dime.

My intent is not to be mean-spirited about the issues that have raised it's ugly head last year and this year. My opinion was asked & I gave it...if you don't want my opinion don't ask for it. That's one area I don't volunteer for.

Call

 

Can we get receipts for this donation for tax purposes?

 

This thread now makes me sad.

 

Frankly I don't know what to say. I'm damned for trying to add some coordination to the event, engage clubs in the organizational process, spend my time writing software to support it, enticing vendors to attend, try to do my best to make it enjoyable for everyone...all the while having to provide 100% disclosure to everyone not directly involved in the coordination of the elements of the event.

Given that I work in this community around the clock I have to, by definition, let a lot roll off my back and, with very few exceptions, I'm as laid back as anyone can be. It was my cabin that almost had a tree fall on it before setting the hillside and it didn't phase me. I lost a printer in the power surge and had to spend money on replacing that as well. Stuff happens and I roll with it.

I've heard the complaints in past years and each year we have tried to resolve the issues. I know that you can't make everyone happy, no matter what you do but it seems that if we take steps to resolve the issues then we get complaints because of what we tried to do. For example people complained last year that we had the lots full of vendors. This year we got the tent so that we could free up the majority of the lots. The complaints we got this year were that the vendors weren't together and that we didn't have enough vendors. A few of the vendors complained that we had scheduled drives which took away from their foot traffic. It doesn't seem like there is a real way to meet everyone's needs 100%.

Its my impression that the main issues at this point (and have been for several years) are:

- the original attendees of MOTD feel that the event is too big
- there is too much structure to the event
- a lot of vendors attend the event (they are members of the MINI community as well)
- people need to eat but don't want to pay high costs for dinners
- I have to generate some income to support my time involved with coordinating and managing the event

There are several options to address all the above concerns.

1) We choose another date for the event that is not the same weekend as the original event so that those that don't want to be involved with the large group won't be impacted.

2) Those that don't want to be in the large group can choose another weekend.

3) We ask vendors not to attend and therefore remove any of the product and service giveaways they do.

4) Dinners have always been optional. Many of the cabins have kitchens and there are food options in Bryson City, Robbinsville, and Maryville. Everyone gets to make their choice on what they do food-wise.

5) We (I) stop doing any level of coordination or management for the event (online or in person).

As I've said elsewhere and other coordinators of the event have said...I'm very comfortable (and becoming more motivated each day) in totally removing myself from the picture for MOTD in the future. If that is what people want than I'm not interested in getting any further in the way than apparently I already am.

Mark

 

If everyone donated individually at the swap then yes it would be easy to get receipts. The charity is/was willing to do that. But since it's built into the registration costs there's no way to do that. You'd have to break down how much of the reg fee went to charity per person, was the service provided greater than the value of the donation, etc.

And I'm not claiming it as a tax deduction on my return so don't think I'm doing it this way for tax benefits.

 

Mark,

I was not one of the originals but have attended every MOTD since then. And each one has been more organized & smoothly ran than the 1st. I, for one, appreciate what you have done for this event. Other than living in Dogpatch for a week & not getting enough pulled pork, I have no complaints

I was a Miata owner for many years & here is what happened to their Dragon event. It started out grassroots but people wanted more! So it became more organized, vendors started attending & everything was great, so they thought. Well, the complaints came in, just like what we are hearing. The organizers gave up, the vendors stopped coming & guess what, the attendees complained again. You are damned if you do & damned if you don't

I say, do what is best for you, Mark You don't need all the aggravation. I would have given up long before.

Once again, thanks for a great MOTD We will probably not be back next year. Too many other MINI events that we want to attend

Lois

 

I sympathize with the original attendees that feel the event's gotten too large but it's a natural progression and the increased organization is a byproduct of having to manage larger crowds. The Dragon is a public road and Fontana and the other resorts are not specifically reserved for the event so nothings stopping them from just showing up as many choose to do anyways. They aren't going to change when they have the event and the hundreds of other people who think the events also a good idea are still going to show up on the same weekend.

For the number of people that attended, and the number of things to do I think registration for MOTD was a great value and the whole event went incredibly smoothly. To attend a major car show often would cost $40-80 for one day of entertainment, this was a lot better than a lot of the typical shows held in convention centers and for my $145 in total registration fees I got four days of entertainment. Sure there was gas and lodging on top of that but registration alone seemed to be a relative bargain. I think the amount of structure and pricing is overall pretty good with a need for some small tweaks here and there (and lower prices are always better but that would just be increased value).

Vendors complaining that the drives reduced their foot traffic is like the gift shops at Disney complaining the roller coasters take away customers. This is a great place for Vendors to advertise, interact with their customers, and make a little money but any way you look at it MOTD is about MINI owners coming together to drive and interact, not a product expo. I like that there are vendors at the event since it's good to be able to talk with people face to face to discuss ideas and many dragon attendees don't live near any of the major vendors. If there were more vendors I don't see that as a bad thing, but at the same time if fewer vendors decided to show up that's wouldn't bother me either. I didn't have any major installs done to my car at the dragon, bought a few things that I could've just as easily ordered online (although probably wouldn't have bought at all) but did really enjoy getting to talk with the vendors about different products, concepts, and setups, I probably could've had similar conversations if the vendors had just shown up as enthusiasts though.

The meals are entirely optional at Fontana so maybe more organized runs that include a meal that are made public for registration would be a good way to offer more solutions. I skipped out on the Joyce Kilmer Forrest Drive/Hike I had originally registered for to join the Sunshine MINIs drive instead, had I known about it before I gladly would have planned on it and the lunch it included. The Ice Cream Run was another great chance to get a sandwich and dessert for a very good price off of Fontana.

People are getting really hung up on who's making how much money off the event. I personally completely ignore it and let the laws of supply and demand, and how much perceived value I'm getting out of the deal determine what I do and don't do. If someone can figure out how to make millions off this event while offering what I feel is a fair and reasonable deal for a vacation then I'm all for it. Really I look at the event and see lots of places where more money could be made, just for the sake of making money, but that wasn't done. I don't see anything wrong with Mark being reimbursed reasonably for his time and efforts. I also respect those who help make the event possible at a volunteer level and really appreciate that. At some point though it becomes unreasonable to expect someone to volunteer to do a certain amount of work. Mark has clearly done way more work than would be expected of a volunteer and as long as he's legally the fortune he makes off the event on his taxes I'm can't complain.

I'm sure I sound like I want to leave a lot of things the way they are and telling those with complaints to shove it, and in some ways I am. But really I believe the event went really well and that adding more options in the future that can then be kept, or used to replace other less popular things is the best way to improve MOTD. There are small details of existing events that could use some refinement and that's something that the event coordinators for future events can use this thread to search out possible ideas and options to deal with.

 

Just playing devils advocate here, but this could turn into a slippery slope. Stating that something is a certain percent bound for a charity and not providing a tax receipt upon request could end someone under the proverbial "Heat Lamp"

This is a good reason to make the donation voluntary.

 

The event could have been all sunshine and lollipops and rainbow-pooping flying unicorns and there still would be people complaining of the glare, their blood sugar level and/or their fear of horses. There's no way around that.

There is, for sure, that 'silent majority' who enjoyed the event, had no issues with or at most just a commentary on the various aspects that might need improvement. I am one of those people. I think things went off a great deal smoother than last year, with more use made of available space. Costs of everything went up since last year, and 5 bux more for registration to me was not a big deal. I did not sign up for any of the extra events, since I could not be certain that I'd be able to make it, and by the time I could, most of the sub-events had filled up. Meal prices are, unfortunately in this case, beholded to Fontana which, sadly, seems to be learning how to put the screws on people because of the convenience factor. Next year will be even more expensive because Fontana is jacking the price of accommodations up over 60 dollars a night for some of the cabins (if the rumors are true), and I am sure everything will get a commensurate raise in percentage. If nothing else, this will keep people home next year. I know if things keep going the way they are with regards to costs of living and driving, this will unfortunately have been my last trip to the Dragon.

 

Since Phil brought up dinner prices I wanted to address how the cost structure works.

In general the club hosting the dinner gets to decide what type of menu items are selected. That obviously can effect the total cost of the dinner per person and is its biggest component. From that there is sales tax, 20% gratuity, 6% for running this through the NAM store, and a dollar or two for the hosting club to help fund their yearly local events or donate to the charity of their choice.

With the above in mind its really up to the club on what they wish to provide at the dinner food-wise. They can make it moderate or very nice based on how many and what type of entrees are offered and cost varies based on that. This year since we had two low cost meals in the middle the groups coordinating the welcome and farewell dinners wanted to provide nicer meals for those nights.

Compared to MINIs in the Mountains my experience with Fontana catering and the cost structure has been very good and I can tell you that they work very hard to accomodate our requests to keep costs down as much as possible. Last year at MINIs in the Mountains not only did we have a 20% gratuity but there was something in the neighborhood of a 40% upcharge for a resort fee. That made even hamburgers and hot dogs really expensive and why this year there will be some offsite dinners organized.

Mark

 

This seems like a good place to say this, Wanda, kids and I (Pop's) would like to thank everyone who attended the Dragon Ice Cream run II to SODA POP'S. Such a treat having the MINI's here for the second time this year. The local paper even did a small story on the ICE CREAM run. Meeting so many nice people with a common love (mini's) has been a lot of fun for me. Mike, Don't know your last name, but a special thanks to you for taking the time in setting this up again this year. Wish I could have said thanks in person!

Hope to see you all again next year and if you have any suggestions please let me know (828)788-0013 (paulpcrawleyaol.com).

Again, A very big THANK YOU......

SODA POP'S

PS, sorry for the rain and I'm already working on that for next year!

 

What we need here are a few more ata-boys and a little less bitching and moaning! As a newbe this year I found the whole concept of MOTD to be fantastic. Four days driving,socializing,eating,drinking and general all around good times were well worth the registration fee paid. I got some product installed that had I stayed at home ,most likely would never have been installed. I met folks from all over the country,nice people, with some of the same interests as myself.
In general it seemed to me that a good time was had by all(or most) and a resounding "thank you" should be extended to Mark and all the other people involved in putting together an excellent four days.
I'll be back next year along with more beer for the Swap and a fire extinguisher.-Frank

 

Mark,

I have to express how sick I am for all the greif and bitching! Personally, I really appreciate your hard work and have enjoyed our last 3 MOTD's that I have attended, and will continue to attend in the future. (However, we were last minute participants this year or we would have registered for more.) I cannot understand why people are not just gateful for what is offered and make the best of what is a very well planned event. The "nothing is good enough no matter what you do" ego people have growing out their ears has really turned me off to message boards lately.

Now, Everyone needs to say "thank you very much" for a great MOTD 2008

or stay at home next year

Jessica

 

Since you felt the need to bring that up, let me make a few important and clear points:

1. It's DCMM, not DCCM. If you're going to attack a group, at least get the name right.

2. It wasn't "last year", it was two years ago - MOTD4 (2006).

3. At that MOTD yes, DCMM did a lot. What did we do? We handled the overall registration (including swag, etc) for the event, we did the welcome dinner, and we did the farewell dinner. That's three very large items, all organized at the same time, for what was effectively a 3 day event (remember: prior MOTDs started on Thursday, not Wednesday).

Why did we do all of that? Because we wanted to? No. We did all three things because nobody else stepped up to the plate to do it. We begged and pleaded for other clubs to please step up and take over the dinners... but nobody did. (AtlantaMINIs did however host a chili cookoff at Tapoco on the Friday night, and we were grateful that they did. )

Rather than let the welcome & farewell dinners fall flat on their face, we stepped up. This also contributed enormously to our decision to step back (way back) at MOTD5 (in 2007)... and after Mark saw what we accomplished, he decided to step in and take over. I for one am very glad that he did.

So my point #3 is... a large part of the reason DCMM managed to accumulate $5000 extra at MOTD4 was the fact it was combined from three separate (and large) ventures at the same time.

4. As Barry (snooter) pointed out (thank you Barry!), when we were planning the event, we had to go on the information we had. The numbers we had to work with when setting the prices were based upon expected attendance (always a crapshoot) and the committed vendors at that time. We also had to set prices with a little bit of wiggle room, because we refused to operate, with large amount of volunteer's time, at a risk of financial loss to the club.

Bear in mind that many vendors are very late to sign on fully for MOTD every year, in large part because they get so busy with AMVIV that they don't give MOTD much attention until after AMVIV is well over. That's very late when it comes to organizational planning.

So - point #4: We had a very significant contribution come in very late in the game (I think it was from Alta, I'm not 100% sure), and that also contributed to the $5,000 extra. That large amount extra was money we didn't expect and didn't plan for.

5. We didn't donate to a charity "back home". We thought about it, but quickly realized that this extra money was from the MINI community at large, not specifically the DC region. This is Point #5: Our chosen charity was the National Make-A-Wish Foundation. Go ahead, sit there and tell me it wasn't a good choice of charity. That being said, I really appreciate some of the previous comments in this thread that charities local to the Dragon area would be worth supporting. I think that's a great idea.

6. Before we finally got the bookkeeping organized after MOTD (we had some complications with changing banks and other things), we had people here on NAM angry at us that we didn't do anything charitable with all of the money. We always planned on doing it - we just had to get the accounting done first. Then, when we did get it sorted out and make the $5,000 donation, people complained how much it was that we had extra.

See the irony here? We were damned if we did and damned if we didn't. Are you really surprised that we stepped back for the following year?

My whole point, Call... make sure you get all the facts before you start plastering baseless accusations about DCMM, MOTD4, or any other group here. We aren't a bunch of money-hungry blood-sucking pigs. We're volunteers in the MINI community. Try to remember that. Not a single person from DCMM was paid for their time. I can pretty much guarantee that the same goes for the members of other clubs that "step up to the plate".

Some people. Really.

P.S. As for money this year? There won't be much - Stacey (MININurse) busted her butt to get the prices as low as she could for the food choices we made in the farewell dinner. There really isn't that much left over, but we will be making some kind of contribution - again, when we get the numbers finalized.

And don't forget about our other (totally free) MOTD contribution - the info table, which was planned and organized by our very own president, Katie (kgdblu). Thanks Katie! Mind you, I don't think she intended it to be a "DCMM thing", it was her own idea and she followed through with it independently. I'm just very proud of the fact she did so, so yeah, I wanted to get another good word in for her.

 

Since post #348 above was such a relief to me, I'll add a thank you of my own. I had a great time and want to say a big THANK YOU to everyone who was responsible in any way for putting on MOTD. Not everything was perfect, but sometimes things are just like that. I appreciate your efforts.

Mark Ferguson personally re-opened the trailer and registered me and a pal late Thursday when we were unable to get our food at the dinner because we had no tags. I'm sure he was tired and had better things to do (and yes we were dodos for not getting it done earlier), but he was 100% pleasant about it. For that and all he has done in the past, he will be a hero in my book, whatever the future brings.