The problem is there are a lot of contradictions going on too.

Ryephile doesn't see the need for registration (which is fine) yet he expects to be made aware of where the official events are.

A. All the info on all the events going on has been on NAM for months. Totally free I might add. If people would take the time to simply look at the schedule here before they head out then maybe, just maybe, they'd know when and where things would happen.

B. To have a cohesive plan without overlap takes planning. That involves coordination. And so far central organization appears to work best. I completely agree that financial transparency is the best way to gain everyone's trust but even then some people would still be crying foul.

The Brew Swap can happen without any involvement from Mark at NAM but I can tell you it wouldn't have been as easy for me to pull off. Having that central point of contact who can help solves problems, handle registration, etc., really helps.

I've never bought the swag bag registration because I never saw the worth. But I know where my $5 and $10 has gone over the years and it was worth every penny.

 

amen!

 

Bar none the Brew Swap is always the tops......and meeting even more great people than last year....priceless!!!

 

I wasn't trying to suggest it's "all about NAM". However I do feel that central organization, whoever does it, is very important for an event of this size. If the central organization was done by someone other than NAM, would you then be more open to registration? In both 2005 & 2006, it was done by DCMM. There has been some talk of Mark Ferguson & NAM backing off a bit and snooter (with Sunshine MINIs, I gather) has discussed being more involved.

My point is... are you against the idea of central coordination at all (and the costs associated with that - never mind the "full" swag-laden registration, I'm talking about the basic $5/$10 registration), or is it simply NAM's involvement?Yes, I did... in a respectful way, I hope. I for one sorely miss the rally / time trial / scavenger hunt that you organized in 2005 - I had a great time, and I wish it came back. I'm not trying to argue... I'm trying to understand. I was offline from NAM all week long, and I am simply trying to ask the same questions I would have asked earlier, had I been online.

Also, before anyone gets confused again, I am not trying to speak as a "representative of NAM". I am trying to speak as a community member who is trying to be involved and helpful. A week before MOTD, Mark asked me to help organize volunteers for the registration check-in process, and so I did. It was not a paid position. If I hadn't been involved with that, I would have been trying to help in other ways (and at other events). I believe very strongly in volunteering time to help make a good event even better.

My point again - I'm not trying to start an argument or ridicule. I'm trying to get a better understanding of those who deliberately chose not to register yet still attended.

 

I cannot wait for next year. Anything that might not have gone so smoothly was a minor irritant compared to the enjoyment me and my family had.
As far as registration, I think that horse has been beat to death. No matter your thoughts as to where the money is or isnt going, you had the choice to either pay it or not. Wondering why people aren't paying the driver's side registration,bringing it up over and over is not going to get people to register. Next year is a new year, by the looks of some of the posts here, there might be new volunteers, who just might be able to add fresh insight. The volunteers of this year worked very hard, and I am appreciative of this fact. No matter what happens, you cannot make everyone happy. Its a shame, that for the people who were ultimately truly unhappy, that you could not enjoy the event for what it was.. a great time to get together with other mini owners and to have fun. So, dinners were small according to some, people felt they didnt get their monies worth.. don't attend that part of it next year. The beauty of this is that you can pick and choose what you would like to do. Take responsibility for your MoTD because it is yours. There is nothing saying you have to register, you have to go to group drives, you have to participate in group meals. Take possession of what your doing, what you want to do and enjoy!!
Edge, I know there is already a thread for information as to why they did or didnt register.. why not leave it there? Making someone who didn't register feel uncomfortable about their choice is not fair.
We will be there next year, cannot wait. Looking forward to doing more then just leading an organized group drive.

 

Actually, I wasn't talking about the more expensive (driver's registration), I very clearly stated the basic registration. Also, I haven't been bringing it up "over and over"... this is the first I've posted about it since MOTD has completed. I honestly and genuinely wanted to simply try to gain some understanding of those folks and their thoughts.This was not any attempt to ridicule nor make them uncomfortable! Yes, there is another thread... but each and every quote I gave above was from this thread, so I felt it was relevant to quote and discuss here as well... because clearly, for those people, the registration was one of their "least favorite" parts of MOTD (and hence their decision not to participate in it).

That being said, your point is well made. I can appreciate that it is a sensitive issue for some (myself included, perhaps). I was trying to post some constructive questions and asking for constructive answers. Everybody in the MINI community has a voice... including them... and including me. I'm sorry if I riled any feathers with the above posts today - but I wasn't trying to!

 

hmm now that I hear that it makes alot more sense to why the tent was there. . .

 

yea being in the restaurant industry i figured that much, oh well, i still had a great time and can't wait for the next

 

How does this make Donna's honest opinion into "another registration argument"? All she is doing is expressing her opinion, and isn't that what this thread is all about? Besides, she has gone over the top in the past with volunteering, organizing events, and all. You're being quite unfair to her with that slam.

 

I don't think that COOP310's comment was necessarily a slam at Donna. If anything, I think it was directed at me, since I quoted posts from earlier in the week to talk about registration. I realize that posts I have made in the past (pre-MOTD6) have been divisive. This is not an attempt to repeat that.

All I am hoping for is a civil conversation about what MOTD means to all of us. Part of the problem, I suspect... is that MOTD means different things to different people... and with such a diversity, there may in fact be no bridges to one common ground, at least for things like registration. Still, by trying to understand one another, hopefully we can try.

 

A short range FM transmitter or something to that effect broadcasting a pre-recorded message that could be up dated tru-out the day and into the evening would go a long way into keeping participants informed. Especially when it comes to last minute changes due to weather and the like.

That would be fantastic. I know that I am not going to get there before 5:00 PM on Wednesday. Being able to register in the evening after the welcome diner would make Thursday morning less stressful.

OK, now I put in my $.02 I will go back to the long process of waiting for 4/28/09.

 

My comment wasn't directed at anyone specifically. I understand both Donna and Edge's points, I was merely suggesting that they should be discussed in another thread. This thread has come up with alot of interesting ideas for next years event, which was its original purpose, I just wanted to keep that conversation going without getting sidetracked on a topic that has already been discussed at length.

I did not mean "argument" as in "altercation" but rather as "a process of reasoning". Maybe I should have been more clear and If I offended anyone, I am sorry.

 

I didn't take offence.

I have suggested in years past and do so again for the future:

Create an association that is centered on this event, an MOTD club, open to those with an interest in working and volunteering for the event. Develop bylaws and choose leaders. Allow for input and decisions on money and events from "the club". Pool the funds from registration and other peripheral sales (Tshirts and other official swag) for the benefit of the event. Have some activities that are free to registrants. My particular favorite group to take care of is the kids.

No single individual should profit, no single club should rule. Keep seed money for the next year's event and allow "the club" to chose a recipient to donate left over funds to, hopefully in the area you have come to enjoy. I'm sure flaws can be found in this plan but I think it would allow a continuation that is not in place at this time. I also think this club can develop and function electronically but would take time to build and encounter stumbling blocks, egos and other issues.

I do agree with offering organized activities and registration. Develop, plan and promote with positivity. Accept that events that return to the same place year after year can have fluctuations in registration when some people develop their own agenda and don't feel the need to register. Love them anyway.....they have a Mini.

Have a fairly significant late registration fee and/or special drawing for early registrants to encourage the bulk of registration in time to make adjustments to plans and ensure financial viability; i.e. add a tent, delete a tent; change the size of a tent, etc.

I would also suggest the growth of a thick skin along with a very compassionate tone of voice because it doesn't matter what you do, someone will complain about something.

To Edge specifically, the return of a touring rally would require me listed as an additional insured on an event insurance policy or membership in said club with the purchase of an event insurance policy. I would also consider offering a funkhana but it would require the same.

Cheers, ya'll.

 

Hear, hear!!! I have thought this very same thing for some time. And it is by no means a slight to Mark's efforts over the past few years; really it is more of a testament to it and the need for central organization. Furthermore, if done well, I could see it growing into more than a MOTD club. Why not develop/name it with that possibility in mind? (Something along the lines of the "National Mini Event Club.") Certainly initial focus could be on MOTD, but other (new or existing) national events might be rolled into its scope over time. I'd certainly be down with that!

 

Not to burst anyones bubble, but, in knowing how hard it is to get volunteers to help with our local club, there is no way I will be involved in a "MOTD" club, at least here, if I need something from someone I can visit them face to face..

Right now everyone is hyped about MOTD, give it 2 months and we'll be back to the same core volunteers as the memory fades.

The insurance cost alone for our local club is close to $3,000, once you go figuring in the cost for 800+ people from all over the place, my guess is D&O insurance, and blanket liability for all involved would be well over $10K divided by 800 participants, were talking $12.50 per person before any events are even planned......

Central organization IMHO is a must, but the level of insanity that is being thrown around will kill MOTD for sure.

No thanks, we'll keep our club hosted events very separate.

 

I keep thinking of that ol sayings, "no need to throw out the baby with the bath water" and "no need to re-invent the wheel"

 

It is not my intent to stomp all over this idea, rather to be a devil's advocate. As appealing as an MOTD club may seem, there are tons of issues that come with this type of undertaking - the idea of an MOTD club and the reality of one are worlds apart. I quite honestly don't foresee a group of people stepping up to take this on. It is a huge responsibility and who has the time or inclination to take this on as a volunteer? With a formal entity, there is not only taking on the actual event, but running the organization becomes a job too. Small, charterd local clubs take a huge amount of time to run and lots of dollars to insure - we get to see each other in person and there are communication issues - I can't even phathom officers scattered throughout the country.

Some of the largest issues:

1. Standard Liability insurance would definitely not be enough for an event of this type - there were need to be a special driving event policy. With all the clubs and individuals that come forward to put on drives and activities, I cannot imagine an insurance company wanting to even consider covering MOTD as a whole. Are we going to get everyone that does an event to join the MOTD Club so they are covered as a member? What do we do if we don't? Do we have to carry insurance for ALL driving that goes on at MOTD? Does this include the driving done on the actual Dragon? (That is what people come there to do.) Will we have to show proof that all attendees have a valid driver's license and current auto insurance policy?

If there is a company that would be willing to insure MOTD as a whole, the premium would be through the roof. All events that have anything to do with driving (Planned Drives, Autocross, Parade, Group Photo etc..) will come under fire. Oh, and forget any alcohol being served anywhere - HUGE no-no for any insurance that involves coverage for driving. I also guarantee Fontana would want to be listed as an additional insured - which brings up another set of issues for the insurance company. Is MOTD as an entity responsible if one of it's members burns down a cabin or drives their car through a building?

2. If we can manage to get coverage, how on earth do we pay the premium for the first year? If this were the first year it might be manageable, but with hundreds of participants already, we are talking about thousands of dollars that would need fronted.

3. D & O Insurance for officers

4. Checks and balances. Who would be willing to be a volunteer treasurer with this much responsibility? And this isn't a one time deal, a new person might have to be found every single year that can be entrusted with a checking account that size. Where do we keep the account? Right now all funds are handled by individual clubs. With all this money combined, we would be looking at the $50,000 - $100,000 range for an annual budget. (this is a guesstimate - it may be considerably more)

5. Who decides who these officers are? Elections? Who is going to set-up and run an auditable election? With this type of budget it would have to be very formal.

6. Some costs, like insurance remain high regardless of attendance - what do we do if we have a year with low attendance - how do we cover costs?

Maybe a good compromise would be an MOTD Registration and Schedule committee? A group of volunteers that come together to handle registration and general scheduling issues. Maybe a representative or two from each of the clubs that sponsor events? They would exist only to have a central point of contact for Fontana and central point of organization of all the various activities that individuals clubs want step up and put on. The only money that would be handled would be pass-through costs for what registration covers - Meals, the tent (incl. tables & chairs), processing fees (accepting credit cards), miscellaneous costs incurred using Fontana, vendor rental necessities, and swag & t-shirts, if any) - There are probably some additional items I am not aware of. But that would be it - individual clubs and attendees would remain responsible for their own insurance and managing the funds for their own events. It would be ideal if Mark would be willing to continue handling the processing and accounting, as a third party, if not, there are companies that exist to take care of it for a small fee per transaction.

Just some food for thought...

 

And I quote myself...... I'm not meaning the ego part in the quote, but the stumbling blocks and other issues. The reason I posted is because I have heard bandied about a bit that Mark may not facilitate (any/as much?) next year and am trying to offer some different thoughts. And an MOTD club would not necessarily mean an end to club sponsored events. Describing the thought as insanity seems a bit harsh, Steve.

WRT to event insurance, I insured Mini Meet East last year, a four day event with roughly half the cars and attendees, but did insure our own autocross. The premium from K&K fell under the minimum of $1500.

No worries. Carry on.....

 

Having been involved with the operations of our local club for the past 2 years, and having talked to numerous officers from other clubs, it's hard enough to organize and run events when everyone is local.

Add the remote location and geography of the volunteers, i do beleive it would be insane to pull off, and that is just from the standpoint of stumbling blocks and other issues. I wasn't even figuring in the egos.

As for K&K, I have more than a little experience with them, and know that as soon as they see any mention of possible "spirited" driving, either on a website, or in event documentation, they will pull the coverage faster than a twin-charged MINI. For instance the Midnight run alone would be cause for them to deny coverage, they do however cover autocross events, go figure.

Hagerty Ins is one of the only companies that will insure all the different types of events that happen at MOTD, with itemized costs for each and every event of the whole.

The biggest problem would be all of the costs that would need to be covered even before events are planned. There are people who complain about the $10 reg fee now, could you image how many would complain and not register if the costs were substantially higher.

 

To add a bit of fun to this (very important) thread:

A favorite: Seeing how many MINIs you can cram into the road that goes under Bridal Veil falls north of Highlands!

 

 

That's too cool!

 

Whoa! This is great! You have actually done this? I'm so sorry, I didn't realize. $1,500 isn't bad at all. Is there a "club" like you described earlier for MINI Meet East? Are you part of it? Can you give us some more insight? It would be really helpful to hear what your experience was like. Everything I have posted about having a formal MOTD "Club" was based on assumptions from experience with our local club. It sounds like issues may be completely different for a single event. If you have some time, can you please let us know how it worked for MINI Meet East?

Thanks so much!

Pamala

 

Looks like they re-paved the road and removed the fallen bus-sized boulder since last year!

 

I heard that they had to break out the explosives to break up that big rock that fell.