Electrical Seat belt reminder?
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 82
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Ok, I have a possible solution to this problem, but I have a moral quandry about it.
If I tell people how to disable the gong, are they then going to not wear their seat belts? That's not really something I care to support.
If I tell people how to disable the gong, are they then going to not wear their seat belts? That's not really something I care to support.
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
lol, fine I'll explain it, I'm just saying by following these instructions you accept that not wearing a seat belt will probably result in your death or serious injury should you be in an accident.
In any case, on to the good stuff. This solution requires a little knowledge of how electronics work. It does NOT require changing the firmware of the central computer, that would be difficult, but probably something people will figure out in the future as cars become more reliant on them.
So earlier in this thread someone said that their were two wires coming from the seat belt buckle, and that hooking them together caused an airbag error code. Well, they were on the right track they just didn't go far enough.
First of all you'll need a multimeter to figure out the state of the circuit when the belt is buckled and when it isn't; this will allow you to emulate the buckled state of the circuit.
You'll need to measure 4 things. (note: this is when the wires are still connected to the buckle!)
-The voltage across the wires when the belt is buckled, and when it isn't.
-The current through the wires when buckled and when it isn't
The belt buckle sensor most likely works in one of two ways, either it:
-Opens and closes a circuit (you would see no current in one state and current in another, this can also cause a difference in voltage)
-Changes the resistance of the circuit(you'll see a difference in voltage)
If if opens and closes a circuit you'll need to emulate that by (this is assuming it closes a circuit in the buckled state) connecting the two wires, along with a resistor to simulate the difference in voltage.
If it were an open circuit in the buckled state, you would simply need to disconnect the wires, but I doubt that's the case.
If it simply changes the resistance of the circuit you just need to connect the two wires with the proper resistor to emulate the closed state.
NOW, selecting the proper resistor.
You'll need two bits of information, the current and the voltage difference in the closed state.
Then simply apply ohm's law:
V=IR
for example if you need a 2 V drop across the wires, and the current is 10 mA current you would need a 200 ohm resistor between the wires.
I don't currently have a mini to test this out, but it should work. If you do it properly the central computer will always see a buckled state, and you'll never have a gong.
In any case, on to the good stuff. This solution requires a little knowledge of how electronics work. It does NOT require changing the firmware of the central computer, that would be difficult, but probably something people will figure out in the future as cars become more reliant on them.
So earlier in this thread someone said that their were two wires coming from the seat belt buckle, and that hooking them together caused an airbag error code. Well, they were on the right track they just didn't go far enough.
First of all you'll need a multimeter to figure out the state of the circuit when the belt is buckled and when it isn't; this will allow you to emulate the buckled state of the circuit.
You'll need to measure 4 things. (note: this is when the wires are still connected to the buckle!)
-The voltage across the wires when the belt is buckled, and when it isn't.
-The current through the wires when buckled and when it isn't
The belt buckle sensor most likely works in one of two ways, either it:
-Opens and closes a circuit (you would see no current in one state and current in another, this can also cause a difference in voltage)
-Changes the resistance of the circuit(you'll see a difference in voltage)
If if opens and closes a circuit you'll need to emulate that by (this is assuming it closes a circuit in the buckled state) connecting the two wires, along with a resistor to simulate the difference in voltage.
If it were an open circuit in the buckled state, you would simply need to disconnect the wires, but I doubt that's the case.
If it simply changes the resistance of the circuit you just need to connect the two wires with the proper resistor to emulate the closed state.
NOW, selecting the proper resistor.
You'll need two bits of information, the current and the voltage difference in the closed state.
Then simply apply ohm's law:
V=IR
for example if you need a 2 V drop across the wires, and the current is 10 mA current you would need a 200 ohm resistor between the wires.
I don't currently have a mini to test this out, but it should work. If you do it properly the central computer will always see a buckled state, and you'll never have a gong.
lol, fine I'll explain it, I'm just saying by following these instructions you accept that not wearing a seat belt will probably result in your death or serious injury should you be in an accident.
In any case, on to the good stuff. This solution requires a little knowledge of how electronics work. It does NOT require changing the firmware of the central computer, that would be difficult, but probably something people will figure out in the future as cars become more reliant on them.
So earlier in this thread someone said that their were two wires coming from the seat belt buckle, and that hooking them together caused an airbag error code. Well, they were on the right track they just didn't go far enough.
First of all you'll need a multimeter to figure out the state of the circuit when the belt is buckled and when it isn't; this will allow you to emulate the buckled state of the circuit.
You'll need to measure 4 things. (note: this is when the wires are still connected to the buckle!)
-The voltage across the wires when the belt is buckled, and when it isn't.
-The current through the wires when buckled and when it isn't
The belt buckle sensor most likely works in one of two ways, either it:
-Opens and closes a circuit (you would see no current in one state and current in another, this can also cause a difference in voltage)
-Changes the resistance of the circuit(you'll see a difference in voltage)
If if opens and closes a circuit you'll need to emulate that by (this is assuming it closes a circuit in the buckled state) connecting the two wires, along with a resistor to simulate the difference in voltage.
If it were an open circuit in the buckled state, you would simply need to disconnect the wires, but I doubt that's the case.
If it simply changes the resistance of the circuit you just need to connect the two wires with the proper resistor to emulate the closed state.
NOW, selecting the proper resistor.
You'll need two bits of information, the current and the voltage difference in the closed state.
Then simply apply ohm's law:
V=IR
for example if you need a 2 V drop across the wires, and the current is 10 mA current you would need a 200 ohm resistor between the wires.
I don't currently have a mini to test this out, but it should work. If you do it properly the central computer will always see a buckled state, and you'll never have a gong.
In any case, on to the good stuff. This solution requires a little knowledge of how electronics work. It does NOT require changing the firmware of the central computer, that would be difficult, but probably something people will figure out in the future as cars become more reliant on them.
So earlier in this thread someone said that their were two wires coming from the seat belt buckle, and that hooking them together caused an airbag error code. Well, they were on the right track they just didn't go far enough.
First of all you'll need a multimeter to figure out the state of the circuit when the belt is buckled and when it isn't; this will allow you to emulate the buckled state of the circuit.
You'll need to measure 4 things. (note: this is when the wires are still connected to the buckle!)
-The voltage across the wires when the belt is buckled, and when it isn't.
-The current through the wires when buckled and when it isn't
The belt buckle sensor most likely works in one of two ways, either it:
-Opens and closes a circuit (you would see no current in one state and current in another, this can also cause a difference in voltage)
-Changes the resistance of the circuit(you'll see a difference in voltage)
If if opens and closes a circuit you'll need to emulate that by (this is assuming it closes a circuit in the buckled state) connecting the two wires, along with a resistor to simulate the difference in voltage.
If it were an open circuit in the buckled state, you would simply need to disconnect the wires, but I doubt that's the case.
If it simply changes the resistance of the circuit you just need to connect the two wires with the proper resistor to emulate the closed state.
NOW, selecting the proper resistor.
You'll need two bits of information, the current and the voltage difference in the closed state.
Then simply apply ohm's law:
V=IR
for example if you need a 2 V drop across the wires, and the current is 10 mA current you would need a 200 ohm resistor between the wires.
I don't currently have a mini to test this out, but it should work. If you do it properly the central computer will always see a buckled state, and you'll never have a gong.
Thank you for this info...when I figure out what the ohm resistor I need I should be able to pick that up at radio shack.
Is there a way to make sure what wires under the seat to connect the resistor to? I am asking this prematurly because I have not looked to see the wires that are there. I will take the seat out this week and see if I can apply what you arre saying. It makes sense and the closest solution I have seen yet. Worth a try and thank you for trusting that we will all still wear our seatbelts. If I were you I would have made everyone who reads this post sign a waiver for you...LOL
Thanks I will let you know how I make out
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Is there a way to make sure what wires under the seat to connect the resistor to? I am asking this prematurly because I have not looked to see the wires that are there. I will take the seat out this week and see if I can apply what you arre saying. It makes sense and the closest solution I have seen yet. Worth a try and thank you for trusting that we will all still wear our seatbelts. If I were you I would have made everyone who reads this post sign a waiver for you...LOL
I imagine they would be the only wires going to the buckle.
Yeah..I guess I will have to see it for myself. There can't be to many wires there, no power seats in my car. So the only other wires would be for the airbag weight sensor...thanks for the post.
Dan,
Unfortunately you mised one other possibility. It is not just a straight switch set up. This car is almost 100% computer controlled.
The Multi Restraint System inthe Mini is a combination of many items. Seat Belts, Seat Belt Tensioners, Air Bags, Acceleration Sensors, and a computer to monitor all of it.
The following is from the WDS MINI Wiring Diagrams. I will say this about it. Versions of the car newer than April 08 Builds may be different.
START QUOTE
Seat Belts
The seat belt tensioners have the task of removing or reducing any belt slack in the pelvic and shoulder region. The seat belt tensioner forms a unit with the seat belt buckle. The belt buckle switch, a two-wire Hall switch, is monitored by the airbag control module. In the event of a fault, a fault memory entry is made in the airbag control module.
Belt buckle switch
The belt buckle switches indicate whether the seat belts have been fastened or not. The belt buckle switches are supplied with clocked voltage by the airbag control module. The following shows the voltage curve that is measured at the airbag control module when the voltage curve is OK. For the voltage measurement, the adapter lead must not be connected to the seat belt buckle switch!
END QUOTE
Here is a typical two wire hall effect switch diagram
It is called a two wire switch because typicaly the groudn is the case which is mounted to a ground plate and thus the need for only two wires.
I am not saying it is imposible to defeat but it is probably just as easy to hack the main couputer program than it is to design a circuit to defeat the hall switch
Here is some more reading from the WDS Mini Wiring Diargrams
START QUOTE
"Seat belt tensioners for driver belt and passenger belt
As a rule, the seat belt does not fully tighten around the body. The so-called ”belt slack” of the seat belt ensures that the occupants can move comfortably to an adequate degree. In the event of a frontal or rear-end collision, the pyrotechnic seat belt tensioner pulls the belt buckle a number of centimetres downwards. This tightens the seat belt simultaneously in the lap and shoulder region of the occupants
Visual and acoustic seat belt warning for driver belt and passenger belt
For the seat belt warning, the signals of the 2 belt buckle switches (driver belt, passenger belt) are monitored separately. If the seat occupation detection indicates that the passenger's seat is occupied, the passenger belt must also be inserted in the belt buckle. The seat belt warning then goes outThe following situations are taken into account for output of a seat belt warning
Front seat belt not fastened and distance travelled below 200 m
With a driven distance below 200 m, only a visual seat belt warning is displayed (the seat belt warning lamp lights up). The vehicle can e.g. be driven out of the garage without triggering an acoustic seat belt warning
Front seat belt not fastened and distance travelled above 200 m
The seat belt warning lamp lights up (visual seat belt warning). The acoustic seat belt warning is switched on for approx. 90 seconds.
When the seat belt is fastened, the visual seat belt warning goes out. The acoustic seat belt warning is switched off.
If the seat belt is not fastened after the acoustic seat belt warning has timed out, the seat belt warning lamp lights up
Front seat belt unfastened while the vehicle is being driven
If a belt buckle is opened while the vehicle is being driven, the seat belt warning lamp lights up immediately.
After approx. 15 seconds, an additional acoustic seat belt warning is switched on for approx. 90 seconds.
When the seat belt is fastened, the visual seat belt warning goes out. The acoustic seat belt warning is switched off.
If the seat belt is not fastened after the acoustic seat belt warning has timed out, the seat belt warning lamp lights up.
END QUOTE
Now thru my own testing for the following senarios: (test are on 08 Clubman with a april 08 build, and the above is the specs for that vehicle, it may be different for other build times and years.)
Front Seat Belt NOT Fastened - after teh 15 seconds of gong i could then drive off and drive approx 1/2 mile before teh gong went off.
Seat Belt Unfastend During Driving - warning light right away and gong started 12 seconds after disonnection, and stayed on for 117 seconds
So even though it seemed like much more time than the almost 2 minutes the gong did go off and stayed off for at least another 10 minutes of driving I was not going to continue driving jsut to test to see how long it would stay off. Maybe i will try the 15 minute drive to work tomorrow and see if it stays off longer.
Unfortunately you mised one other possibility. It is not just a straight switch set up. This car is almost 100% computer controlled.
The Multi Restraint System inthe Mini is a combination of many items. Seat Belts, Seat Belt Tensioners, Air Bags, Acceleration Sensors, and a computer to monitor all of it.
The following is from the WDS MINI Wiring Diagrams. I will say this about it. Versions of the car newer than April 08 Builds may be different.
START QUOTE
Seat Belts
The seat belt tensioners have the task of removing or reducing any belt slack in the pelvic and shoulder region. The seat belt tensioner forms a unit with the seat belt buckle. The belt buckle switch, a two-wire Hall switch, is monitored by the airbag control module. In the event of a fault, a fault memory entry is made in the airbag control module.
Belt buckle switch
The belt buckle switches indicate whether the seat belts have been fastened or not. The belt buckle switches are supplied with clocked voltage by the airbag control module. The following shows the voltage curve that is measured at the airbag control module when the voltage curve is OK. For the voltage measurement, the adapter lead must not be connected to the seat belt buckle switch!
END QUOTE
Here is a typical two wire hall effect switch diagram
It is called a two wire switch because typicaly the groudn is the case which is mounted to a ground plate and thus the need for only two wires.
I am not saying it is imposible to defeat but it is probably just as easy to hack the main couputer program than it is to design a circuit to defeat the hall switch
Here is some more reading from the WDS Mini Wiring Diargrams
START QUOTE
"Seat belt tensioners for driver belt and passenger belt
As a rule, the seat belt does not fully tighten around the body. The so-called ”belt slack” of the seat belt ensures that the occupants can move comfortably to an adequate degree. In the event of a frontal or rear-end collision, the pyrotechnic seat belt tensioner pulls the belt buckle a number of centimetres downwards. This tightens the seat belt simultaneously in the lap and shoulder region of the occupants
Visual and acoustic seat belt warning for driver belt and passenger belt
For the seat belt warning, the signals of the 2 belt buckle switches (driver belt, passenger belt) are monitored separately. If the seat occupation detection indicates that the passenger's seat is occupied, the passenger belt must also be inserted in the belt buckle. The seat belt warning then goes outThe following situations are taken into account for output of a seat belt warning
Front seat belt not fastened and distance travelled below 200 m
With a driven distance below 200 m, only a visual seat belt warning is displayed (the seat belt warning lamp lights up). The vehicle can e.g. be driven out of the garage without triggering an acoustic seat belt warning
Front seat belt not fastened and distance travelled above 200 m
The seat belt warning lamp lights up (visual seat belt warning). The acoustic seat belt warning is switched on for approx. 90 seconds.
When the seat belt is fastened, the visual seat belt warning goes out. The acoustic seat belt warning is switched off.
If the seat belt is not fastened after the acoustic seat belt warning has timed out, the seat belt warning lamp lights up
Front seat belt unfastened while the vehicle is being driven
If a belt buckle is opened while the vehicle is being driven, the seat belt warning lamp lights up immediately.
After approx. 15 seconds, an additional acoustic seat belt warning is switched on for approx. 90 seconds.
When the seat belt is fastened, the visual seat belt warning goes out. The acoustic seat belt warning is switched off.
If the seat belt is not fastened after the acoustic seat belt warning has timed out, the seat belt warning lamp lights up.
END QUOTE
Now thru my own testing for the following senarios: (test are on 08 Clubman with a april 08 build, and the above is the specs for that vehicle, it may be different for other build times and years.)
Front Seat Belt NOT Fastened - after teh 15 seconds of gong i could then drive off and drive approx 1/2 mile before teh gong went off.
Seat Belt Unfastend During Driving - warning light right away and gong started 12 seconds after disonnection, and stayed on for 117 seconds
So even though it seemed like much more time than the almost 2 minutes the gong did go off and stayed off for at least another 10 minutes of driving I was not going to continue driving jsut to test to see how long it would stay off. Maybe i will try the 15 minute drive to work tomorrow and see if it stays off longer.
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Thanks for the info, but even if it is a halls effect sensor, all it does is change the resistance. From what you say the control module "checks" the seat belt buckle every 200 ms by supplying 6 V across the two wires. The variation on the return wire is what allows the control module to "read" the sensor. What my instructions are trying to do is emulate the voltage drop caused by a belt buckle switch in a buckled state.
To the control module, it really shouldn't make a difference what is causing the voltage drop, as long as there is one.
To the control module, it really shouldn't make a difference what is causing the voltage drop, as long as there is one.
Thanks for the info, but even if it is a halls effect sensor, all it does is change the resistance. From what you say the control module "checks" the seat belt buckle every 200 ms by supplying 6 V across the two wires. The variation on the return wire is what allows the control module to "read" the sensor. What my instructions are trying to do is emulate the voltage drop caused by a belt buckle switch in a buckled state.
To the control module, it really shouldn't make a difference what is causing the voltage drop, as long as there is one.
To the control module, it really shouldn't make a difference what is causing the voltage drop, as long as there is one.
Except that the Hall effect switch is built into the buckle and the two wires you are trying to play with are a DIGITAL signal pulse and putting a resistor on it will not affect the way the pulse is read. The only thing putting a resistor across the two wires will do is cause it to think the signal is not there and return a Air Bag Fault just as shorting the two wires together does.
You need to take the buckle assembly apart to get to the actual contacts that drive the hall switch. Not the wire connection point in the connector that goes to the wiring harness.
Fishbert, you sound like an English major.
After that... I don't see what the problem with getting the male end of the buckle is. Does it not work or something?
PS - Redbull, I'd like to apologize for being a smartass in your thread on this. I've recently started putting my messenger bag (okay, man purse
) with my laptop in the front passenger's seat and good God the gong won't STOP!!! 
After that... I don't see what the problem with getting the male end of the buckle is.
Does it not work or something?PS - Redbull, I'd like to apologize for being a smartass in your thread on this. I've recently started putting my messenger bag (okay, man purse
) with my laptop in the front passenger's seat and good God the gong won't STOP!!! This was I started the "stop the gong" thread and got pretty annoyed with the responses...like some of the same stuff here. There are a lot of great people on this forum, and I get PM's almost everyday from people asking for help with something. Many are affraid to post their question because of the know it all attitude's around here. Sad so many here feel so above the rest, they can ruin a good thing for many who really enjoy their cars. Thats why I don't visit as much as I used to....I don't need the added fustration. Really like MU...the crowd there really love their cars and like to share and help others, not nearly as much high and mighty attitudes.
OH..if you have a man purse you many just want to call it a computer bag
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,298
Likes: 1
Hey Moxi....no problem at all. Hey I can even get a long with a Bowling Green fall out.....
This was I started the "stop the gong" thread and got pretty annoyed with the responses...like some of the same stuff here. There are a lot of great people on this forum, and I get PM's almost everyday from people asking for help with something. Many are affraid to post their question because of the know it all attitude's around here. Sad so many here feel so above the rest, they can ruin a good thing for many who really enjoy their cars. Thats why I don't visit as much as I used to....I don't need the added fustration. Really like MU...the crowd there really love their cars and like to share and help others, not nearly as much high and mighty attitudes.
OH..if you have a man purse you many just want to call it a computer bag
This was I started the "stop the gong" thread and got pretty annoyed with the responses...like some of the same stuff here. There are a lot of great people on this forum, and I get PM's almost everyday from people asking for help with something. Many are affraid to post their question because of the know it all attitude's around here. Sad so many here feel so above the rest, they can ruin a good thing for many who really enjoy their cars. Thats why I don't visit as much as I used to....I don't need the added fustration. Really like MU...the crowd there really love their cars and like to share and help others, not nearly as much high and mighty attitudes.
OH..if you have a man purse you many just want to call it a computer bag
You're right. (In response to everything you just said. ) I just opened an M|U account, too. PS - Do you ever come up to BG for Vette events at Beech Bend?
A 100 point strike has been issued to Red Bull for post #75, as this is not the first time he has been warned for disrespectful posting.
The NAM Site Guidelines still apply, people. Focus on arguing the issue/topic, not on personal attacks.
The NAM Site Guidelines still apply, people. Focus on arguing the issue/topic, not on personal attacks.
6th Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,790
Likes: 10
From: Kansas City
A 100 point strike has been issued to Red Bull for post #75, as this is not the first time he has been warned for disrespectful posting.
The NAM Site Guidelines still apply, people. Focus on arguing the issue/topic, not on personal attacks.
The NAM Site Guidelines still apply, people. Focus on arguing the issue/topic, not on personal attacks.
Are you kidding me? Points?
This place is getting to be a joke............
OK, guys, my question has always included the fact that I always buckle my belt, so if by doing what you're suggesting, what will happen when the buckle is inserted? What effect will that have?
Secondly, can't we just interrupt the signal to the speakers instead? Work from the output side of the equation rather than the input?
If people can't grow up enough to hold off on the personal attacks, they will make themselves unwelcome.
Participation here is a privilege, not a right. The guidelines are there for a reason - they are reasonable and fair, and everybody (yes, including me - mods & admins are not "above the law") is expected to be mindful of them.
If not, they are always welcome to go somewhere else. There are plenty of other Internet forums to go to, including MINI-related ones.
6th Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,790
Likes: 10
From: Kansas City
OK, I wasn't clear enough..............how is the signal produced? Where does it come from? is it just on one frequency? Is there a wire that carries this signal by itself to the radio? Does it even go thru the radio or is it just a frequency generator of some sort? does it go thru bluetooth or something?
Well Edge, I don't know if you read the whole thread or not, but it sounded to me like he was simply defending himself against others who started with the namecalling BS......as was I.
At any rate, while I agree with the premise of attack the post, not the poster it has to apply evenly. I also think most people here are adult enough to handle their affairs here without interference...........or points.........
And I'd like to point out that this all-hallowed site wouldn't exist without us, the people who post here and support the vendors, so don't give me any of that crap about rights vs priveledges, it's just BS and we both know it.
Well Edge, I don't know if you read the whole thread or not, but it sounded to me like he was simply defending himself against others who started with the namecalling BS......as was I.
At any rate, while I agree with the premise of attack the post, not the poster it has to apply evenly. I also think most people here are adult enough to handle their affairs here without interference...........or points.........
And I'd like to point out that this all-hallowed site wouldn't exist without us, the people who post here and support the vendors, so don't give me any of that crap about rights vs priveledges, it's just BS and we both know it.
Last edited by MINIdave; Mar 1, 2009 at 06:35 PM.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,298
Likes: 1
A 100 point strike has been issued to Red Bull for post #75, as this is not the first time he has been warned for disrespectful posting.
The NAM Site Guidelines still apply, people. Focus on arguing the issue/topic, not on personal attacks.
The NAM Site Guidelines still apply, people. Focus on arguing the issue/topic, not on personal attacks.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,298
Likes: 1
Well Edge, I don't know if you read the whole thread or not, but it sounded to me like he was simply defending himself against others who started with the namecalling BS......as was I.
At any rate, while I agree with the premise of attack the post, not the poster it has to apply evenly. I also think most people here are adult enough to handle their affairs here without interference...........or points.........
And I'd like to point out that this all-hallowed site wouldn't exist without us, the people who post here and support the vendors, so don't give me any of that crap about rights vs priveledges, it's just BS and we both know it.
At any rate, while I agree with the premise of attack the post, not the poster it has to apply evenly. I also think most people here are adult enough to handle their affairs here without interference...........or points.........
And I'd like to point out that this all-hallowed site wouldn't exist without us, the people who post here and support the vendors, so don't give me any of that crap about rights vs priveledges, it's just BS and we both know it.
The fact is, each and every one of us is a "guest" here, myself included. The site is free, yes... but we don't own it. The guidelines were put in place by the site's founder, Mark Ferguson. He may have sold the site last year, but the new owners (Internet Brands) have chosen to keep the guidelines the way they were.
Just as if a guest in your home starts to insult other guests, you can ask them to leave... so is the same here. Everyone is welcome here provided they are willing to abide by the site guidelines. It's that simple... and yes, it is therefore a privilege, not a right.
I don't understand what was so offensive. He was amazingly polite given the circumstances, and he didn't "name" anyone. How is it a personal attack? If anything it was the other member (won't say any names) that propagated such a response from him. You should be giving him the strike.
As for "propagating such a response", the fact remains that if one person makes a direct or witty but civil post that you don't like, that you even hate, it does not give you license to start cussing them out or insulting them.
The "circumstances" are quite simple. Don't make personal attacks, and if you feel like one has been made on you, don't retaliate, just report it. We look at each and every report that comes in, and when we determine it is valid, we'll act on it.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,298
Likes: 1
No, it's not BS. It's how things are and have been here for a long time. Yes, the site exists because of members... but for every member who chooses to run their mouth off here, insulting and slandering other members when they don't like what they have to say, we have far more members who like the fact that this is a (relatively) civil place for discourse.
The fact is, each and every one of us is a "guest" here, myself included. The site is free, yes... but we don't own it. The guidelines were put in place by the site's founder, Mark Ferguson. He may have sold the site last year, but the new owners (Internet Brands) have chosen to keep the guidelines the way they were.
Just as if a guest in your home starts to insult other guests, you can ask them to leave... so is the same here. Everyone is welcome here provided they are willing to abide by the site guidelines. It's that simple... and yes, it is therefore a privilege, not a right.If you feel that another member has broken the site guidelines, then report the post so the moderation & admin team can look at it.
As for "propagating such a response", the fact remains that if one person makes a direct or witty but civil post that you don't like, that you even hate, it does not give you license to start cussing them out or insulting them.
The "circumstances" are quite simple. Don't make personal attacks, and if you feel like one has been made on you, don't retaliate, just report it. We look at each and every report that comes in, and when we determine it is valid, we'll act on it.
The fact is, each and every one of us is a "guest" here, myself included. The site is free, yes... but we don't own it. The guidelines were put in place by the site's founder, Mark Ferguson. He may have sold the site last year, but the new owners (Internet Brands) have chosen to keep the guidelines the way they were.
Just as if a guest in your home starts to insult other guests, you can ask them to leave... so is the same here. Everyone is welcome here provided they are willing to abide by the site guidelines. It's that simple... and yes, it is therefore a privilege, not a right.If you feel that another member has broken the site guidelines, then report the post so the moderation & admin team can look at it.
As for "propagating such a response", the fact remains that if one person makes a direct or witty but civil post that you don't like, that you even hate, it does not give you license to start cussing them out or insulting them.
The "circumstances" are quite simple. Don't make personal attacks, and if you feel like one has been made on you, don't retaliate, just report it. We look at each and every report that comes in, and when we determine it is valid, we'll act on it.
And I have to agree with MINIdave on the site not existing without US. Especially, when it comes Red Bull. He's a really cool guy and a valued member of the community, and has been providing an excellent service to us all with his experience, advice, and input. Not to mention that he's offered his excellent services to several community members. It would be big shame to risk losing such a great member because he defended himself when someone else shot off their mouth.
Okay, that's my final $0.02, and I'm done venting.
PS - I realize this isn't a democracy and my 2 pennies don't necessarily count. I'm just trying to get a better grasp on the situation.
A 100 point strike has been issued to Red Bull for post #75, as this is not the first time he has been warned for disrespectful posting.
The NAM Site Guidelines still apply, people. Focus on arguing the issue/topic, not on personal attacks.
The NAM Site Guidelines still apply, people. Focus on arguing the issue/topic, not on personal attacks.
Yes, it is BS and your wrong....Please post the member that was personally attacked..You can't because it was a general statement....not directed to a particular member. So now every time I see a post I don't like I will report it...gonna keep you busy. I suggest everyone do the same thing. I know who reported me...read the thread its easy to figure out....he was a condescending wise A$$ that couldn't take him own medicine
you police as you go, picking out a post because some member who was rude to begin with got smacked and then reported the post. I understand and know how it works, I am a MOD on another Forum...then you step in and start handing out warnings at random. If you were really doing your function properly you would read all the post in a thread to see who incited what....you think because some bozo uses a big word he is above starting the rift to begin with? Please...
There are some people here (and we all know who most of them are) and I use the word people loosely that go out of their way to be condescending. Apparently it is OK to be rude or condescending as long as nobody reports you.????? Sound stupid right? because it is.....
My last points were for calling a member an idiot for belittling another member...when I called him out he reported me...25 points for that...now 100 points for a statement....something stinks!!!!
Moxi thanks for the support on this thread and PM me with your email address. You can find me on mIu if I am not here. I think you can handle one Vette show.
Ma78 you said it like it is
....that's either a ban or points for you...fishbert....its all good..thanks for the support in the PM..your alright
Hand out the points I don't care anymore...I am now up to 125 and 75 to go...sure this will get me banned for not agreeing with a BS infraction.....whatever.
Most of the members here are relly good people however I am tired of the snobs around here and wont miss a single one of them.
Last edited by Red Bull; Mar 2, 2009 at 03:47 AM.
No, it's not BS. It's how things are and have been here for a long time. Yes, the site exists because of members... but for every member who chooses to run their mouth off here, insulting and slandering other members when they don't like what they have to say, we have far more members who like the fact that this is a (relatively) civil place for discourse.
The fact is, each and every one of us is a "guest" here, myself included. The site is free, yes... but we don't own it. The guidelines were put in place by the site's founder, Mark Ferguson. He may have sold the site last year, but the new owners (Internet Brands) have chosen to keep the guidelines the way they were.
Just as if a guest in your home starts to insult other guests, you can ask them to leave... so is the same here. Everyone is welcome here provided they are willing to abide by the site guidelines. It's that simple... and yes, it is therefore a privilege, not a right.If you feel that another member has broken the site guidelines, then report the post so the moderation & admin team can look at it.
As for "propagating such a response", the fact remains that if one person makes a direct or witty but civil post that you don't like, that you even hate, it does not give you license to start cussing them out or insulting them.
The "circumstances" are quite simple. Don't make personal attacks, and if you feel like one has been made on you, don't retaliate, just report it. We look at each and every report that comes in, and when we determine it is valid, we'll act on it.
The fact is, each and every one of us is a "guest" here, myself included. The site is free, yes... but we don't own it. The guidelines were put in place by the site's founder, Mark Ferguson. He may have sold the site last year, but the new owners (Internet Brands) have chosen to keep the guidelines the way they were.
Just as if a guest in your home starts to insult other guests, you can ask them to leave... so is the same here. Everyone is welcome here provided they are willing to abide by the site guidelines. It's that simple... and yes, it is therefore a privilege, not a right.If you feel that another member has broken the site guidelines, then report the post so the moderation & admin team can look at it.
As for "propagating such a response", the fact remains that if one person makes a direct or witty but civil post that you don't like, that you even hate, it does not give you license to start cussing them out or insulting them.
The "circumstances" are quite simple. Don't make personal attacks, and if you feel like one has been made on you, don't retaliate, just report it. We look at each and every report that comes in, and when we determine it is valid, we'll act on it.
Okay so after about 14 off topic posts lets get back to the subject of the OP.
As i stated in Post # 82 there is a Hall Effect Switch that is part of the circuity for the Seat Belt Gong. It resides in the buckle receptacle and is connnected to the Air Bag Control Module.
What has not worked in the past:
At the connector that connects the wires from the seat belt buckle receptacle to the wiring harness.
1. Short wires together, Air Bag Fault
2. Leave wires open, Air Bag Fault
3. Put a resistor in series or parallel with the wires, Air Bag Fault.
I gathered the above info from over 30 threads on this subject here an the forums, some of it right from this thread.
So to explain what a Hall Effect Switch does:
The Hall effect switch is a digital semiconductor switch that changes state in the presence of a magnetic field.
So from this i gather that putting the buckle in the receptacle changes the magnetic field that is sensed by the Hall Effect Switch.
So now that we know it changes the state of a signal, we now know that the signal as posted in post #82 is changed some how when the buckle is inserted into the receptacle.
Unfortunately BMW/MINI have not told us what that signal change is.
I theorize that it is probably changing the timing of the pulse in some manner but at the current time I do not have a good idea of what that timing change might be. It could be a wider pulse or it could be a longer or shorter time between pulses. Or something else all together.
As where i live we are in the midst of a rather nasty snow storm right now and i do not have a garage to use i have no way of checking the signal with an Oscope to see what happens to the signal. I am also leaving on vacation in a few days so i will not be able to do any more testing on this until I get back in late march.
If anyone has an Oscope and can check the signal in both states, buckled and unbuckled and post it here that may be of great help to all that are looking for a solution.
Hope this helps every one. And thanks for your time in reading this.
As i stated in Post # 82 there is a Hall Effect Switch that is part of the circuity for the Seat Belt Gong. It resides in the buckle receptacle and is connnected to the Air Bag Control Module.
What has not worked in the past:
At the connector that connects the wires from the seat belt buckle receptacle to the wiring harness.
1. Short wires together, Air Bag Fault
2. Leave wires open, Air Bag Fault
3. Put a resistor in series or parallel with the wires, Air Bag Fault.
I gathered the above info from over 30 threads on this subject here an the forums, some of it right from this thread.
So to explain what a Hall Effect Switch does:
The Hall effect switch is a digital semiconductor switch that changes state in the presence of a magnetic field.
So from this i gather that putting the buckle in the receptacle changes the magnetic field that is sensed by the Hall Effect Switch.
So now that we know it changes the state of a signal, we now know that the signal as posted in post #82 is changed some how when the buckle is inserted into the receptacle.
Unfortunately BMW/MINI have not told us what that signal change is.
I theorize that it is probably changing the timing of the pulse in some manner but at the current time I do not have a good idea of what that timing change might be. It could be a wider pulse or it could be a longer or shorter time between pulses. Or something else all together.
As where i live we are in the midst of a rather nasty snow storm right now and i do not have a garage to use i have no way of checking the signal with an Oscope to see what happens to the signal. I am also leaving on vacation in a few days so i will not be able to do any more testing on this until I get back in late march.
If anyone has an Oscope and can check the signal in both states, buckled and unbuckled and post it here that may be of great help to all that are looking for a solution.
Hope this helps every one. And thanks for your time in reading this.
Last edited by schatzy62; Mar 2, 2009 at 06:24 AM.
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 82
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thank you schatzy, for actually posting something useful and on topic.
You did remove the the wires from the buckle when you put the resistor in place right? YOU NEED TO DO THAT!
You also need to size the resistor properly, you can't just throw one in there.
from wiki
"A Hall effect sensor is a transducer that varies its output voltage in response to changes in magnetic field. Hall sensors are used for proximity switching, positioning, speed detection, and current sensing applications."
the halls effect sensor causes the voltage that is sent down the input wire to change, depending on whether or not the buckle is in place.
So all you need to emulate the sensor is the proper sized resistor, but again you MUST REMOVE THE WIRES FROM THE BUCKLE for it to work
You did remove the the wires from the buckle when you put the resistor in place right? YOU NEED TO DO THAT!
You also need to size the resistor properly, you can't just throw one in there.
from wiki
"A Hall effect sensor is a transducer that varies its output voltage in response to changes in magnetic field. Hall sensors are used for proximity switching, positioning, speed detection, and current sensing applications."
the halls effect sensor causes the voltage that is sent down the input wire to change, depending on whether or not the buckle is in place.
So all you need to emulate the sensor is the proper sized resistor, but again you MUST REMOVE THE WIRES FROM THE BUCKLE for it to work