R60 Please: spare yourself, and don't buy a MINI (especially a Countryman!)
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,296
Likes: 5
From: north/central New Jersey
It would be nice to think if many owners are as vocal as we are about their shortcomings that they might change their ways. Again, we do like the car (for the most part). We would not consider selling it and taking a huge loss versus what we paid for it. If we decided to replace it with another make, we would just proceed with our lemon law claim and get a refund.
4th Gear
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 322
Likes: 19
From: New York
I for one am not confident the issue has been resolved just because they claim so. BMW is not a trustworthy company. Only time will tell as 2013 owners start to put mileage on their cars.
Mini offered to replace our 2012 all four with a new 2013 after we threatened to sue them under our state's lemon law due to the ongoing issues we've been having with the electrical system.
We ordered the 2013 with an automatic, even though we had no problems with the stick in our 2012. Then again, we did not have the 2012 for very long, and we drove it very gingerly because of the widespread clutch problems that were being reported.
We are reasonably confident the replacement car will not have similar electrical problems, given that the problems we experienced seemed to be relatively rare.
From the start we were always disappointed with the clutch and shifter in our current car. It is nowhere near as sporty as the clutch and shifter were in our previous R53.
I have my doubts, but I do hope that the new clutch material fixes the problems. This situation reminds me of the early first generation Minis that had a high incidence of power steering pump failures because the pumps were defectively designed. BMW redesigned the pumps for subsequent model years, but when the early pumps failed, If the car was out of warranty the customer was faced with a very expensive repair bill. Given the very high incidence of pump failures, the right thing for BMW to have done would've been to extend the warranty on the pumps to 100,000 miles. So not only did they not stand behind the defective design, they made huge profits selling the early owners redesigned pumps.
Just goes to show you what sort of company you are dealing with.
Mini offered to replace our 2012 all four with a new 2013 after we threatened to sue them under our state's lemon law due to the ongoing issues we've been having with the electrical system.
We ordered the 2013 with an automatic, even though we had no problems with the stick in our 2012. Then again, we did not have the 2012 for very long, and we drove it very gingerly because of the widespread clutch problems that were being reported.
We are reasonably confident the replacement car will not have similar electrical problems, given that the problems we experienced seemed to be relatively rare.
From the start we were always disappointed with the clutch and shifter in our current car. It is nowhere near as sporty as the clutch and shifter were in our previous R53.
I have my doubts, but I do hope that the new clutch material fixes the problems. This situation reminds me of the early first generation Minis that had a high incidence of power steering pump failures because the pumps were defectively designed. BMW redesigned the pumps for subsequent model years, but when the early pumps failed, If the car was out of warranty the customer was faced with a very expensive repair bill. Given the very high incidence of pump failures, the right thing for BMW to have done would've been to extend the warranty on the pumps to 100,000 miles. So not only did they not stand behind the defective design, they made huge profits selling the early owners redesigned pumps.
Just goes to show you what sort of company you are dealing with.
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 659
Likes: 1
From: Kirkland, WA
your ok paying BMW pricing for a yugo? And being treated like you bought a kia ecobox?
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,296
Likes: 5
From: north/central New Jersey
Yes, there was no way they could find a car equipped the way we wanted it, so it had to be ordered from the factory, and it was too late to order another 2012.
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,296
Likes: 5
From: north/central New Jersey
If I recall correctly the sales manager at the dealer told us that it's unusual to find a car in stock that has the level of options that we have, but not leather seats. We did not order leather seats on our current car nor the replacement car. We have been fine with the standard vinyl seats, and we felt that the price of the leather options was way too high. The one thing I wish the seats in the current car had was lumbar support, but I believe I read somewhere that lumbar support is standard with vinyl seats for the 2013 model year.
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,296
Likes: 5
From: north/central New Jersey
Mojito, I would bet even Kia would do a better job standing behind their products than this. And BMW is marketing minis as a premium product. At least Yugo had some valid excuses. They were in financial trouble before they even got started, and the dealers were left wondering if they would ever be reimbursed for warranty repairs.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 2
From: Cottage City, MD
Hey! If'n you're going to crib my analogy, at least give me credit. 
I was speeding....
If you see no difference between a Yugo and a BMW, nothing I can say, nor that you will see on Top Gear for that matter, is likely to ever make sense to you.
Last edited by Kurtster; Dec 23, 2012 at 06:44 PM.
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,264
Likes: 31
From: wisconsin, usa
scott
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 659
Likes: 1
From: Kirkland, WA
To answer your question, yes, I am moving on once BMW completes the buy back. But again, how can you book paying a premium for a **** product? Even if yours is perfect, the resale will be horrific with all of the problems and lack of support. Then of course there's the issue of how the dealers and Mini corporate treat their customers.
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,264
Likes: 31
From: wisconsin, usa
To answer your question, yes, I am moving on once BMW completes the buy back. But again, how can you book paying a premium for a **** product? Even if yours is perfect, the resale will be horrific with all of the problems and lack of support. Then of course there's the issue of how the dealers and Mini corporate treat their customers.
do you have a lawyer on retainer?
scott
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 659
Likes: 1
From: Kirkland, WA
Hope you continue to enjoy your horrible clutch while picking up random guys at gas stations.
Banned
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk, VA
If your clutch was straight, you wouldn't be bringing it to the dealer for the second time. MINI did not change the clutch on the new all 4 models because customers complained they didn't like the feel. That may be what they said, but if you believe that, I have a bridge for sale.And by the way, starting out your post by calling the issues many of us have had "nonsense" is personal. You really have no clue if our issues are nonsense.
We get you love your MINI. Got that you don't want anyone to criticize your MINI. It's like the dad of Little Johnny. Little Johnny is a great kid. But he messed up, did something wrong. Everyone knows Little Johnny made a mistake....even little Johnny admits he screwed up. But Little Johnny's dad just crosses his arms and stamps his foot..."Don't mess with my Little Johnny!".
Good luck with that "feel". If it doesn't feel right genius, it's not right.
We get you love your MINI. Got that you don't want anyone to criticize your MINI. It's like the dad of Little Johnny. Little Johnny is a great kid. But he messed up, did something wrong. Everyone knows Little Johnny made a mistake....even little Johnny admits he screwed up. But Little Johnny's dad just crosses his arms and stamps his foot..."Don't mess with my Little Johnny!".
Good luck with that "feel". If it doesn't feel right genius, it's not right.
As part of the continual refinement and optimization of MINI vehicles, we have improved the take-off convenience and performance of all our MINI Countryman clutches by implementing some software updates as well as changing the clutch facing material to improve the feeling of the clutch engagement. We are sure that these changes will even further improve the convenience of our MINI Countryman models, and will be recognized and appreciated by our customers. These changes coincide with the start of production of our MINI John Cooper Works Countryman as of November 2012.
Just saying, it's what I'm experiencing and they're fixing it..yay MINI.
Banned
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk, VA
I loved this car and mini so much, I ****ing bought two!
Go ask Scott to give you some pointers on how to drive a awd manual...
I'm really sorry to hear people having trouble but comparing this brand, especially BMW, to a Yugo is just plain ridiculous and seems designed just to push people's buttons here, just like the subject of this thread.
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,264
Likes: 31
From: wisconsin, usa
my clutch is fine, i know how to drive manual shift
i have been reading uk and australian forums this last week ....
amazing that there are no clutch failures to be found, other than a small number of throwout bearing failures in early 2010 across all manual mini models
they were very early failures, on the order of 100s of km/miles until failure and were attributed to either a) a part problem or b) an assembly problem as reported to the posters by their dealers
last week i asked a friend from germany that i met when he lived in the usa and spent a lot of time with when i lived in europe, to look on any german/french forums for clutch problems (his wife is french) ... again, none to be found, except he also found a number of throwout bearing failures again in early 2010
so mini must be using substandard/different clutchs on us models ... it must be a conspiracy
or more simply, americans in general do not know how to drive manual shift
manny, my german friend, commented that americans don't know how to drive manual, we slip the clutch to much starting from rest, as i said in an earlier post ...
as manny says, you don't floor the gas until the left foot is on the dead pedal unless you are driving a dragracer with a dragracing clutch
scott
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 659
Likes: 1
From: Kirkland, WA
because the piece of crap is still in my garage and I hope no one else has to go through this experience.
I just sold a 8-year old MINI with 165k miles on it for $8000. Before that if you'd told me I could ever sell a car with that many miles on it for that amount of money, I'd have said you're high. My resale experience was far from "horrific", it was as good as I could have hoped for.
I'm really sorry to hear people having trouble but comparing this brand, especially BMW, to a Yugo is just plain ridiculous and seems designed just to push people's buttons here, just like the subject of this thread.
and that has nothing to do with your current vehicle of choice. As others have already shown, the resale on the CM is flopping. How is it ridiculous? For 2011 MINI was dead last in initial quality. Long term isn't any better. for a $40k car that is horrific.
I just sold a 8-year old MINI with 165k miles on it for $8000. Before that if you'd told me I could ever sell a car with that many miles on it for that amount of money, I'd have said you're high. My resale experience was far from "horrific", it was as good as I could have hoped for.
I'm really sorry to hear people having trouble but comparing this brand, especially BMW, to a Yugo is just plain ridiculous and seems designed just to push people's buttons here, just like the subject of this thread.
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 659
Likes: 1
From: Kirkland, WA
good one! another passive/agressive answer ... get some help
my clutch is fine, i know how to drive manual shift
i have been reading uk and australian forums this last week ....
amazing that there are no clutch failures to be found, other than a small number of throwout bearing failures in early 2010 across all manual mini models
they were very early failures, on the order of 100s of km/miles until failure and were attributed to either a) a part problem or b) an assembly problem as reported to the posters by their dealers
last week i asked a friend from germany that i met when he lived in the usa and spent a lot of time with when i lived in europe, to look on any german/french forums for clutch problems (his wife is french) ... again, none to be found, except he also found a number of throwout bearing failures again in early 2010
so mini must be using substandard/different clutchs on us models ... it must be a conspiracy
or more simply, americans in general do not know how to drive manual shift
manny, my german friend, commented that americans don't know how to drive manual, we slip the clutch to much starting from rest, as i said in an earlier post ...
as manny says, you don't floor the gas until the left foot is on the dead pedal unless you are driving a dragracer with a dragracing clutch
scott
my clutch is fine, i know how to drive manual shift
i have been reading uk and australian forums this last week ....
amazing that there are no clutch failures to be found, other than a small number of throwout bearing failures in early 2010 across all manual mini models
they were very early failures, on the order of 100s of km/miles until failure and were attributed to either a) a part problem or b) an assembly problem as reported to the posters by their dealers
last week i asked a friend from germany that i met when he lived in the usa and spent a lot of time with when i lived in europe, to look on any german/french forums for clutch problems (his wife is french) ... again, none to be found, except he also found a number of throwout bearing failures again in early 2010
so mini must be using substandard/different clutchs on us models ... it must be a conspiracy
or more simply, americans in general do not know how to drive manual shift
manny, my german friend, commented that americans don't know how to drive manual, we slip the clutch to much starting from rest, as i said in an earlier post ...
as manny says, you don't floor the gas until the left foot is on the dead pedal unless you are driving a dragracer with a dragracing clutch
scott
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,264
Likes: 31
From: wisconsin, usa
and yet no clutch failures except in the usa
dragrace style starts (slipping the clutch) in the heaviest mini with the traction divided over 4 wheels keeps the clutch slipping longer
the only other mini i have driven was a countryman s, it would spin a tire in first gear after starting normally and then flooring the gas (dsc and traction off), my all4 does not spin any tires under the same conditions
once a tire slips, clutch lockup follows quickly, if no tires slip, the clutch continues to slip
scott
dragrace style starts (slipping the clutch) in the heaviest mini with the traction divided over 4 wheels keeps the clutch slipping longer
the only other mini i have driven was a countryman s, it would spin a tire in first gear after starting normally and then flooring the gas (dsc and traction off), my all4 does not spin any tires under the same conditions
once a tire slips, clutch lockup follows quickly, if no tires slip, the clutch continues to slip
scott
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,264
Likes: 31
From: wisconsin, usa
my dad liked mine so much he bought a used ex-demo 2012 cms all4 2 weeks after i got mine
scott
Thread Starter
|
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
From: In a box. With a fox.
This thread is devolving quickly. I've made my point, you've been warned.
I'm checking out of this forum. I <have> moved on... my Subaru WRX sedan with a manual transmission arrives Dec. 28th. If history serves, this will be the 13th out of 14 three-pedal cars I won't ever have to replace a clutch in.
MINI sucks, as do people who call out others whose experience they cannot possibly know the extent of, on a public forum in a feeble attempt to feign superiority in some small area of their miserable lives.
Sorry for those 'stuck'. I won't be posting here again but will keep the account and can therefore be reached by PM.
Sir Stirling
Tad
I'm checking out of this forum. I <have> moved on... my Subaru WRX sedan with a manual transmission arrives Dec. 28th. If history serves, this will be the 13th out of 14 three-pedal cars I won't ever have to replace a clutch in.
MINI sucks, as do people who call out others whose experience they cannot possibly know the extent of, on a public forum in a feeble attempt to feign superiority in some small area of their miserable lives.
Sorry for those 'stuck'. I won't be posting here again but will keep the account and can therefore be reached by PM.
Sir Stirling
Tad