Sorry... I don't need to wait to see the real thing in person to believe MINI is making a HUGE mistake in developing an SUV. And the real thing won't be so different from these photos we've been seeing for about a year now.

And your opinion of the R56 and the Clubman is just that. Your opinion. In my opinion, they have taken a very large step back in developing a "good looking car".

Tell you what... I won't try to tell you your opinion is wrong if you promise to do the same.

 

I prefer to judge what is, and not what I think will be.

I don't recall singling out the R56, and the Clubman statement was directed at the individual with "Clubman" in his name (just as the Convertible was directed at you because you have a convertible in your sig)... There were two of you I was referring to.

I don't recall telling you your opinion was wrong. I think the meat of the sidenote was to say it's premature. It's entirely possible the crossover will be ugly, and a mistake. I don't know. None of us do...

 

1. That's good practice. But like I said. It's an SUV. That's not going to change. I don't think it's smart for MINI to produce an SUV, whether it looks exactly like the mule or nothing like the mule.

2. You said the "new Cooper". If you weren't referring to the R56, to what were you referring ? The R50 ? Maybe if you learned the model numbers, you would be better understood. And if you ARE talking about the "old" Cooper, the R50, I completely agree. It's GORGEOUS !! Same thing with the R52 Convertible (the now "old" one).... also gorgeous.

3. Semantics. Okay, you weren't telling me my opinion was wrong. You were telling me I shouldn't have one yet. See #1.

 

It's just not worth it to continue this discussion with someone so set against something that isn't even finished... I urge you to open your mind to possibilities. I'll leave this thread on that note.

 

Ugleeness aside, in general I think MINI would have been better served to develop an AWD Cooper or Clubman.

 

Thanks for all the psychological advice, Doc. But if you're never known you either liked or disliked something the moment you saw it or even heard about it, then I'd say you are in the minority.

 

Have to say I am kinda dissapointed in the elitism shown by a few posters in this thread. Feel like I am reading a console wars thread on puerile video game forum.

 

Anything made after "pong" was crap.

(oh, sorry).

 

Thanks for sharing, Newb.

Signed,

Elitist

 

So do people think a WRX is an SUV?

How about a turbo Forrester? SUV?

SUVs traditionally were frame on body, RWD and 4WD trucks. Monsters by design which were capable of moving up to 7 passengers AND towing larger loads (5000 lbs or more). They shared many traits with the truck platforms on which they were produced, including horrible mileage averaging in the 12-16 range around town, barely braking 20 on the highway (until cylinder deactivation and lean burn strategies started to come into play, but even then, they rarely break 22).

Then came the first crossovers - unibody, predominantly FWD/AWD platforms, but still larger than a typical sedan. Some a cross between a sedan and minivan, some of them still very truck like in a lot of senses. Towing capacities dropped, but you'd still generally find 2000-3000 lbs. capabilities. Being slightly smaller and slightly ligher with lower towing capacities the MPG figures come up a little on these, but many still don't break 20 around town, and none break 30 on the highway.


What we've been told about plans for the Crossman is that it would be a 4 seater, about the size of a Clubman. That immediately removes it from the category of SUV in my book. The key will come with the powertrain. If is shares the same basic turbo-motor of the Cooper/Clubman, and achieves mileage that breaks that 20 mark around town, and hits the high 20s on the highway (I hold out hope for breaking the 30 mark but realize that is unlikely) it would already have distanced itself from any "SUV" on the market.

Like Subaru's original Outback add campaigns, it would "BE" an SUV, it would be an alternate to an SUV.

Personally, we're just looking for something that retains the now almost 100k of fun we've had with our 03 Cooper S that we can get 2 child seats in and out of without too much of a hassle. The AWD being a bonus, but not critical to us.

And if it doesn't happen or it sucks ***, well there's always the WRX or 328iX, though neither of them deliver the fuel economy we want, nor do it in the compact size we'd prefer.

Kev

PS - I just came to this site/thread hoping to find any additional information that people may have learned about it, not to give me a reason to second guess my long time habbit to flash/wave to other Mini Enthusiasts.

 

Yeah, I agree. I'm thinking only a JCW or GP type model, as you tend to lose a few horses with an AWD setup. An AWD MINI would be pretty awesome, and I bet they'd sell like hot cakes !!!

 

BMW no longer cares about their history. The M division is a complete farce now. They are making an M X5 for chrissakes.

It was only a matter of time before they start ruining MINI. However, i will be hoping this car is good, as i would LOVE an AWD mini as my MINI cant get up my steep driveway when it even looks like it will snow.

 

2 things will fix this: 1) Snow tires 2) Go up the driveway in reverse!

I don't necessarily disagree on the "history" aspect, but "history" doesn't always mean money to the bottom line, and Mini's financial health benefits us current owners as well.

I bet they sell like hotcakes. Just look at their competition - see any character there? Compared to the concepts above, all the rest are mainly vanilla. Arguably, the lil' Suzuki is inexpensive "french vanilla". Let's face it - the Mini having some "character" is a big reason most of us chose it over some bland, nondescript "other" car that has a similar total-performance envelope. Why not apply that to the "activity vehicle" realm?

 

And we've been running Blizzaks seasonally since 04 (cause winter of 03 sucked when Jenn couldn't even get her S up our street one night).

I always figured that snows, DTC and a limited slip diff would be enough on a Cooper S to get through most winters. Not that AWD isn't fun.

Kev

 

Yes snow tires are a indeed a big need. I however am still skeptical that they will help that much. Especially performance winter like the Blizzak LM-25's. I mean i know how big a difference Snow tires can make, my M3 with snow tires is a beast and gets up my driveway with out any drama. The Mini with the stock No-seasons is wost than my m3 with summer rubber on in snow.

Personally, i think im going to like the crossman, for the reasons you stated, it will be nice to bring the MINI character to a small crossover. I was just trying to state companies dont care about their history or pedigree when it comes to the bottom line.

 

While they're not complete miracle workers, we've never failed to get up a hill in the 5 winters since we added Blizzaks to the Cooper S...

And the last 4 of them we still lived on a pretty big hill.

The driveway and garage was right below that porch facing downhill

 

At the PittStopMINI wintry driving event we drove roughly-equal Minis back to back with snows, new, and slightly used all-seasons. The average time for Minis on the snowy autocross was about 40-45 seconds on winter tires, while the absolute best non-snow-tire time was a tick over 58 seconds with a highly skilled driver (and it wasn't me, though I'm no slouch myself) at the helm. BTW: my daughter hit a 44 in our Honda Odyssey minivan - on winter tires, naturally!

("Don't sell yourself short, judge, you're a hell of a slouch!")

We're doing it again on February 22nd (www.pittstopMINI.org). see for yourself!

Oh - on topic - we did not have a Crossman to test.

 

Some new photos from Jalopknik, these appear to have the rocker panels mounted this time.

http://jalopnik.com/photogallery/minicrossoverspy/

I am going to agree with KevM, this baby seems directly aimed at the likes of the SX4 and maybe the Scion Xb and maybe even the Honda Fit, none of which I would call an SUV.

 

Horrid car. MINI has officially lost it. Arrogance R Us!

I don't always agree with our resident insurance rep expert. But he and I are on the same page about this monstrosity.

I hope the worsening financial crisis will force BMW to re-consider this bad joke. I can tell you this....People are not lining up to buy $30K and $40K (to start) overweight MINI piggie suv wannabes.

Mark my words: It will flop and it will flop badly. Maybe this thing needs to fail so MINI wakes up from their cannabis induced trance where they believe that anything with a MINI badge slapped on it will sell like hotcakes.

 

Those second set of shots look kinda bad, can't disagree. Like the Rav4 of years back, and the Minis now, they need more tire/wheel diameter on that thing or it'll look under-tired and ungainly. The first shots had larger wheels/tires on, and a slightly lower stance and looked, well, less worse.

It still looks a little, umm, "inflated" to me. Not overall footprint, just kinda bulbous. Rather see the bodywork a little tauter around the mechanicals, I guess.

I still think they'll sell like crazy. Some of us may not like it (brand dilution, SUV's suck, you can't autocross it, etc.) but we don't have to. I'd rather see a more robust product offering so Mini stays afloat, than see them "history" themselves out of business.

Hey - Mini sales actually GREW last year - and grew BIG (>25%), despite the economy AND some negative feelings around the R56 and Clubbie on NAM and among self-declared Mini purists (Note: that is not a negative comment). They must be doing something right.

 

I hope the new AWD system finds its way into the R56.

 

8 years of steady and growing MINI sales are proof positive that no SUV offerings have been even remotely needed.

You have to see this car for what it is.... A profit center for MINI, much in the same way the Porsche Cayenne is/was to the Sttugart marque.

This car is an answer to a question no one has asked. A bad product decision that could not have come at the worst possible time.

 

So... what should Mini do to keep that growth going? More option packages on the current platforms, or hybrids/gas mileage champs? Evolution of current platforms only? That'd get boring pretty quick.

Those "8 years of steady and growing MINI sales" have been based on a bunch of new products: the convertible, the R56, the Clubman... what kept them going so far has been product line expansion.

How should Mini stay ahead of the curve, and stay growing, then, if not for the Crossman?

I'll put it to the community: What's next?

 

Another article from AutoWeek ... pretty much the same pics. I'll certainly give it a good look when it comes out.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090129/FREE/901299993

And for all you steadfast nay-sayers, remember ... Mini already makes the Mini's y'all want. They're hunting for new buyers with this model. If they happen to swing a couple of current owners in the process, great. It's not like they're going to discontinue our beloved MC's. Nor are they building something to compete with those rolling condo's like Expeditions and Yukons and Escalades. They've been doing this longer than you ... give 'em the benefit of the doubt that they know what they're doing.

 

Yeah, Mini needs to get a clue, the only manufacturer whose sales in the US grew for 2008, and by as large a percentage as the average company's sales shrank, but they don't have a clue.

And WTF are you getting $40k?

Yeah, cause BMW wants to build a Mini-crossover that's gonna compete with the X3.

I don't think it's the execs at Mini who need to put down the bong...