Hi Guys,

Looking for some advice on track pads and being able to switch between them and my daily pads. Has anyone ran both Carbotech XP10's or 12's AND Hawk DTS-60's or 70's? I have stock S calipers on my R56 and I've been running Akebono Euro Ceramics front & back for daily driving and Hawk HP Plus front & back at the track. I've had no problems at all switching back and forth between these pads. However, I just cooked the front Hawk's on the Sebring short course. The backing plates fully bowed and the pad material tapered. Consequently, I've also got quite a lot of transfer currently on my front rotors as well. So, it seems like it's time to move to more aggressive track-specific pads. Here's the question; I'm thinking I'd like to try XP-10's, but I'm wondering if I can switch between them and the Akebonos. Or for that matter, can Hawk DTS-60's interchange with Akebono ceramics? I would assume they will, but I don't really know. I've read the XP's won't bed correctly without a new, clean rotor surface. So I'm wondering if I'm stuck running Hawk's regardless until the rotors need replacing. The HP Plus rears still have quite a lot of meat on them so I plan to use them up. I'd obviously like to not have to swap out my front rotors at this point either. I just picked up some 17" BBS RGR's to use for a dedicated track tire setup. They currently have Yoko AD08R's on them. I haven't ever used those tires, but, I'm going to be running them (with whatever pad I end up with) next month at Roebling. After these tires are gone, I plan to put RE71R's on them. I'll also mention; I've read the DTS-60's are very corrosive. I'll be completely honest, these BBS wheels are nice and I really would like to keep them looking good too...

Anyhow, I'd love to hear any helpful advice!

Thanks,
ian

 

as long as you break them in properly and get the transfer material over to the rotor, you'll be fine with XP10's.

with the change of pad between manufacturers, you'll have to bed them in each time. the carbotech pads have their own transfer material which allow them to run properly as well as the hawks. it's my understanding that if you keep it with the same manufacturer, there is no need to bed them everytime you swap them as the material is somewhat the same.

speaking of carbotech, i'm running them and only because i have a fresh backup set, but feel free to do some research on the company. the original owners were bought out and the new owners have taken over. needless to say, the original owners were not happy with the new direction the company has gone so they have walked away and started a new company that uses the SAME pad manufacturer (albeit stricter guidelines, better machines, etc...). that new company is http://www.g-locbrakes.com/...i've spoken to the puskar brothers and believe them only because i'm in a similar situation where the company i worked for was bought out and went in a completely different direction, so i walked away and started a new company with 2 partners.

fwiw, im on XP10's for track and stock JCW pads for daily. i have to bed them in everytime i swap them. when the JCW's run out, i'll go for the GS1's (or bobcats,as you know them on the carbotech brand)

 

last note...and i think this is a requirement....you said you want to keep those bbs looking clean. i think all brake pads can eventually wear down the wheels and ruin the finish. yes you can wash them, but with extreme heat situations, there's only so much you can clean (plus, will you really be on top of cleaning them everytime). when i got my new wheels, first thing i did was take them to my detailer and he cleaned and coated them with opticoat pro (ceramic coating, lifetime warranty). this is strong stuff. i'm not saying go for opticoat as there are a few brands out there, but definitely consider getting a ceramic coating on the car. it's stronger than waxes, sealants, etc... and have a higher temperature threshold. with this coating, you can use a pressure washer and the brake dust FALLS off. if you feel like using a brush, even better.

 

Thanks for the feedback and thanks for the ceramic coating tip! I wasn't even aware such a creature existed. There's two local shops that do it. I'm looking into it.

I ended up going with a new set of rotors and XP-10's. I ran a weekend at Roebling with those up front and the old rotors / Hawk HP Plus in the rear. Brakes did great. So I've just taken to the idea of swapping out rotors along with the pads and wheels when I head to the track. It's not really a big deal.

After the weekend though, I noticed a ring around the rotor that appeared to not have pad bedding. It occupies a good 25% of the rotor surface (see the photo). Check out the heat cycle on those calipers too! Apparently, the two points of contact on the caliper furthest from the piston bent up while under the Sebring heat. So I figure I was utilizing somewhere around 75% of the brake's ability at Roebling... Crazy. Anyhow, obviously I need to replace my calipers as well. I'm just going to swap them for another set of OEM S calipers and go with Motul 600 right before track season ramps up. Hopefully they hold up!

 

ceramic coating is typically only done on the body, but when i spoke to my detailer, he also wasn't sure. i googled it and sure enough, it's very common. the popular brands are Opticoat and CQuartz...i believe opticoat is made in the USA while CQuartz is overseas. Cquartz is glossier while opticoat, even though also glossy but nut as much, is longer lasting (stronger protection). i could go on and on but there are forums DEDICATED to this stuff. i went with opticoat for it's durability and frankly, it's the only products that stands behind a LIFETIME warranty, while others do 3-5 years. Opticoat pro is the lifetime, opticoat (non-pro) is a 2-3 year warranty.

while this wasn't at it's dirtiest, below are examples of a quick wash of the car with opticoated wheels (i sprayed it with sonax FE for about 3 minutes and then hosed it off).
you should look at the pictures in order as it shows them as: untouched, after initial spray, after 2 minutes, washed off...and that's without scrubbing. the water pulled the brake dust off because the opticoat doesn't let them cook onto the finish.

 

sorry to hear about that ring and the calipers. that sucks!! my pads also got messed up a bit. i noticed that the pads were wearing unevenly. the side closer to the hub pressed in more than the outer part of the rotor. the way the JCW calipers are designed, there is a tensioner that holds in the pad. ironically enough, it may also be pushing back enough to not allow the pad to push against the rotor. this was for a 3-day at watkins glen. i then used them again for a 2-day @ NJMP Thunderbolt and they still held fine. frankly, i think i can get 2-3 more events out of them, and then i STILL have a fresh set of XP10's to use...the XP8 rears look like they'll last 30 years...lol.

 

Wow... thats just crazy. I hate cleaning wheels, but, I do it religiously. I'm all over this. Thanks again!

 

just one more note. if you're brakes have already eaten up the wheels, or stained them a bit, it's gonna take your detailer some time to really get all that dust off...i had them opticoated when i bought the wheels...no better time than brand new. so dont' be caught offguard with stickershock as he/they may have to spend some time detailing it to get them pristine before coating them. when opticoat is placed on a car/wheel, anything left on the finish is PERMANENT, so the goal is to make it as perfect as possible before it gets coated.

Good luck!!

 

I actually cleaned them really good when I got them and put a couple of coats of Zaino polish on them before they ever saw any XP10 dust. I cleaned them immediately after the last track day too. So I suspect it should be pretty straight forward if I get on it.

 

A good reason to go BBK with a wilwood caliper. A single piston floater has it's limits and you exceeded them. Insanity , doing the same thing and expecting different results.

 

I would agree with you... However, the caliper damage happened while running Hawk HP Plus pads. I'm now on XP10's... Thanks for the advice though. If I end up experiencing similar results this season with the XP10's on the stock calipers, I definitely will be moving to a Wilwood setup.

 

Pads do not insulate the calipers. So good luck.

 

You are correct. And.. XP10's absolutely will dissipate heat better than the HP Plus. And.. $80 gets me a new set of calipers that will definitely make it through a season. And.. I already have a set of new XP10's and rotors that both have only seen one weekend at the track. It makes zero sense to drop at least $1000 on a bbk right now.

Thanks for the condescending responses though. If for nothing else, they've reminded me that I need to get to work on my brake duct project here in the next couple weeks. Which will also further drop a few hundred degrees for about $100.