I still can't believe there isn't a two-piece offering for the R56 JCW Brembos

 

I'll do it if you want it. You really think $500-600 on this is money well spent though??

 

In my experience, the Hawk pads I have coupled with some OEM rotors and Tyrolsport caliper bushings has been more than enough for spirited driving. That is an inexpensive brake upgrade that gives more confidence and allows the car to quickly enter a corner. Nothing better than confidence in braking, and this delivers imho

 

what i'd like to know is this: how much better will slotted rotors stop an MCS (i have JCW, but beside the point) compared with plain, all other things being equal? and how much more will they wear on pads?

i need to do my fronts soon, and i can't decide which rotors to go with. it's my DD, but i want to auto-x some this year and maybe 1-2 track days/yr, max. going to go with carbotech bobcats mostly, and the 10/8 combo for track days or HPDEs. but if the performance gain is minimal by going with slots, and they tear up these pads significantly more, i'll go with plain rotors. i've read about and talked to several people who think plain rotors are good enough, even for tracking the mini regularly. plus, given the price, you can throw a new set on every time you wear out pads.

 

Honestly? Assuming you make NO other change; pads, tires, hoses, calipers, road surface, temperature.....about nothing. Other than aiding in pad wiping at the higher end of the temperature range where the boundary layer of friction would be at its most all the slots will do is peal away more pad and raise the dust level.

Anyone who tells you it shaved 20ft off their stopping distance or such is on crack. The rotor torque is the same- the diameter is the same so the same rotor values apply.

 

1+

Stock or Slotted rotors are fine.

If you track and want to stop in less distance reliably then- upgrade brake fluid, upgrade brake pads, add stainless steel hoses and caliper stiffeners if you like and don't forget tires make a really big difference.

If you budget is bigger then contact toddtce.

 

DBA has 2-piece rotors available for them. They're quite expensive though, like as much as a BBK. I was considering moving over to JCW calipers and those rotors, but I feel like my money went WAAAAY further going with Wilwood stuff.

--Matt

 

I've made them for a customer also.

 

Did you get any feedback on them? I'd think they're probably still a ways away from most of the available BBKs.

--Matt

 

I can't agree more on all but the second to last part. I went with the Wilwood 12.19" street kit and TCE lines, and found them to be a significant upgrade in streetability and stopping power from the EBC yellows and 125 series Centrics that I installed immediately before them. While the stock brakes might be "fine" in your opinion, they're a very noticeable step down from a basic BBK at any speed.

My car currently has ~6500 miles. I had had stock brakes on until 2900 miles where all of the rotors were replaced with Centric 125s and the front/rear pads were swapped for EBC yellow/red. The The Wilwood 12.19/Street Caliper/BP-10 setup replaced the fronts at around 4800 miles, so I've had them all pretty closely to eachother. I feel that it offers the driveability of the stock pads with greater stopping power and far less deposit issues than the yellows. Dust is way better than the stockers or the EBCs, and they bring along a significant weight reduction.

--Matt

 

Local guy, runs them in NASA events. Ran through one set of rings in a year or so (season) but no idea what pads he's using. Feedback; not much really. Happy with them I guess. Don't know what he's really expecting/getting out of them compared to the one piece parts. Maybe a bit better cooling and some weight savings. Might be running a class where "big brakes" are not allowed?

 

Has anyone made a 2 piece rotor for the non-jcw brakes. I'm more interested in saving that unsprung/rotational mass. I've done a track day and a autox event and haven't experienced fade yet. But when I do I'll swap pads and fluid first before I consider a BBK.

 

Rotors primary serve two functions:
1). Provide friction surface onto which the brake pads press to slow the wheel down.
2). Serve as a heat sink for storing and subsequently releasing the heat generated from the friction of braking. Thus the bigger the rotor, the larger the heat sync, all other things being equal.

For both #1 and #2, both holes and slots in the rotor marginally decrease performance. Holes are especially bad as they frequently start cracks.

An argument can be made that both provide an escape path for water when you hit the brakes for the first time in the rain, and gasses from over-cooked brake pads on track. For the former, its questionable whether they make much of a difference. For the latter, if you brakes are melting down in puffs of smoke you've got much bigger problems !

Stick with quality solid rotors.
They are cheaper, better, and last longer.

YMMV,
alex

P.S.: If in doubt, google F1 rotor pictures and enjoy the sight of solid (carbon fiber) rotors:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...QEwAQ&dur=3676

 

I've got the specs somewhere to do the 2pc 316mm piece yes. I think we did a set some years ago. You really think shaving a couple of pounds is worth $600 in doing this?

Like I've said from the get-go on this topic: it's less expensive and more practical to do a full BBK.


As for the question of slotted rotors being "better"? By better you mean they'll stop you shorter I suspect. What other 'better' is there really right? The simple answer is no. It's like handing you a rubber covered breaker bar to take off your lug nuts vs a steel one. Feels nicer, makes it less of a stress on your fingers maybe but it still takes the same amount of torque. Thus the same tq is produce by the rotor of the same size regardless of finish.

 

Id love to be able to buy a NEW JCW brake upgrade for my R53 but Ill probably do the R56 brakes with slotted rotors and EBC red stuff pads

 

Sorry, friend, but this is nonsense.
Point 1: Removing a section from the rotor's friction area (i.e.: slots, holes, etc) will have marginally negative impact on braking friction. For the duration of time the pad is clamping over a hole or a slot, it will hanging in the air instead of slowing the rotor down!

Point 2: You can not mis-use the pad outside of it's optimal operating temperature range and expect positive results. Regardless of the rotor shape, color, or brand.

1). Hawk HPS pads _will_ fade on a competitively driven car on autoX. They are OK on the street and don't dust much. I've had them before and won't buy them again (OEM pads are as good or better, IMHO).
2). Hawk HP+ pads _will_ fade on a properly driven car on track. Their operating temperature range is 100 - 800°F. These are autoX pads, and are great in that role. But they are noisy, dusty, and don't work well until they reach 100°F (first brake application in the morning). Once they overheat on track, they start breaking apart in chunks. I've had them before and will buy them (or Carbotech's) again for autoX use.
3). Hawk Blue are the proper DE/racing pads. Their operating temperature range is 250 - 1000°F, but they never really fade and break-up like HP+'s. Most DE folks find Hawk Blue's ideal as their first DE pad (HT10 for club racing). I've had them before and will buy them (or Carbotech's or PF pads) again.

More info below:
http://www.hawkperformance.com/docs/catalog-current.pdf

a

 

I haven't used Hawk's (Except blues to clean the rotors, that's how abrasive they are, it's easier than sanding), but don't they have a relatively newer compound (DTC series) that everyone is raving about? I know many people swear by the blues, but they aren't known to be rotor friendly.

I've tried carbotech's, and they were good, but I'd get pad deposits, and pad fade with them after awhile. Currently I'm using brakeman pads, and I love them--they're not that expensive and they are so consistent, and good on the rotors. The PF pads look great too--I haven't personally tried them--the Porsche guys swear by them, and I may try them sometime--but they're not cheap.

 

cct1,
Going to the track is not rotor or tire friendly, by definition!


Having said that, here is a good chart of Hawk brake pads product line:
http://www.hawkperformance.com/docs/catalog-current.pdf
Page 18 will tell you all you need to know abut different compounds and their operating temperature ranges.

I've had good experience with PF and Carbontech pads as well, but for some reason, they are harder to get in the desired pad sizes for the cars I own. Hawk was always good about producing the pads in all the BMW and Mini sizes.

YMMV,
a

 

This is a great upgrade. I just replaced my rotors with NM Engineering's slotted rotors, SS brake lines and EBC Red Stuff pads. My Cpr S now stops how it should have from the factory. Pedal feel is firm too! Liking it so far.

 

I'm running Nitrac Frozen Solid grooved (slotted) discs and Carbotech XP8 pads with stock calipers, Goodridge lines and Castrol SRF fluid - and I got no brake fade at the track compared to my buddy with his stock JCW set up. The stock size discs might look a bit weeny, but with the right pads, you can still stop. I'd like to upgrade to the R56S set up, witn the bigger discs and calipers, but then I'd be adding weight and limiting the rims that I could run (I want to keep my 15" Imola rims and Nokian winter tyres).

As such I've a quick question for Todd@TCE - do the Wilwood brakes fit under the OEM 15" Imolas?

 

The Wilwood factory front (not the rear) kits will fit a 15" wheel yes. Keep in mind that the P1 and P2 kits are essentially the same- just set up as wheel size reference mainly. While marketed as the track kit mainly for 15s, we can just as easily do the same options and price points of the P2 front kit with the smaller 11.75 rotors. Just depends on what parts you put in the box; they are all interchangeable.

The caliper kits for the 294 would also fit the 15" wheel.

Kit fit relative to the 15- I'd suggest you look at the pdf link and see that you have ample spoke clearance. The caliper kits should not be so much of an issue as they are not a lot wider than what you have now.

 

many thanks for this, but now I found this:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ed-list-8.html

It seems that I may be better selling my 15x5.5 OE (winter) rims and running my 16x7 OZ Ultraleggeras (winter) and 17x7 OZ SuperTurismo's (summer) over your P1 Track kit with 12.19x1.00 discs and some nice compound H pads...

 

Wonder why pads are not an option. Something sexy in the direction on Carbotech...

 

I stick with stock all the way. Easier to keep up with and though I drive fast I hardly use my brakes. LOL I do slow down for kids under 12 b/c they don't run fast enough !

 

The 1" wide rotor is a far better choice for open track use over the conventional .810 part. However it does come at the expense of spoke clearance as the rotor width increase towards the wheel, not the engine. Thus the caliper is out closer to the spokes by about 3.5mm also.