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Street Tire Shootout by Sportscar official SCCA publication
Has anyone seen the recent (October 09) Sports Car magazine, titled Ultimate Street Fighter. Just got it today. There is some conflicting info in regards to the GRM issues. I figure they are based on differing surfaces, the fact that RWD was used vs. FWD, and maybe vehicle weights. GRM used a Honda Civic (ST) while Sports Car used a Mazda RX-8 (STX). The 265/35-18 tires were shaved to 3/32 mounted on 18x9 wheels. The course was Adams Motorsport Park in Riverside, CA, it was set-up to be comparable to a typical Solo course. The article does not call one tire the winner, but says they were after the tire with the fastest lap times, not the highest G's.
Here are the tires test from slowest to fastest:
7. Toyo Proxes R1R- Best Lap: 48.0
6. Kumho Ecsta XS- Best Lap: 47.4
5. Nitto NT05- Best Lap: 47.0
4. Yokohama AD08- Best Lap: 46.8
3. Hankook R-S3- Best Lap: 46.4
2. Bridgestone RE-11- Best Lap: 46.2
1. Dunlop Direzza Star Spec- Best Lap: 46.1
Oh, the GRM article had tested the Kumho XS as the fastest tire in their shoot out. I think that the Nitto NT05 do not even come in MINI friendly sizes. And these test do not factor in wet conditions, noise, nor tread wear, only fastest lap times.
__________________ 2006 MINI Cooper JCW GP0019
RMW tune & cams*17% pulley*ITG filter*Brisk plugs*H-Sport Comp RSB*KMac camber plates*resonator delete*TSW studs/jack pads*H&R 5mm spacer*CT AX6 pads*Motul RBF600*RedLine*15x7 Motegi TrakLites2*Nitto NT01 205/50-15 BRG/W 2003 MINI Cooper S R.I.P. Sheila
Last edited by howsoonisnow1985; 09-12-2009 at 03:16 AM.
Here is the Grassroots Motorsport Results for comparison
Quote:
Originally Posted by howsoonisnow1985
From the June 2009 issue of Grassroots Motorsports: Tires were tested in 15 inch sizes on a ST Honda Civic (Andy Hollis). All tires were shaved to 3/32nd and test performed on an Autocross set up. Tires sizes are 205/50/15 (RT-615, R1R, RE-11, XS), 195/50/15 (RE-01R), 195/55/15 (Z1 SS)
Here is a summary of times from worst to first.
6th-Falken RT 615-Mean time: 35.302sec Quick time 35.125sec
5th-Dunlop Star Spec-Mean time: 35.209sec Quick time 35.061sec
4th-Toyo Proxes R1R-Mean time: 34.522sec Quick time 34.452sec
3rd-Bridgestone RE-01R-Mean time: 34.478sec Quick time 34.430sec
2nd-Bridgestone RE-11-Mean time: 34.266sec Quick time 34.238sec
1st-Kumho Ecsta XS-Mean time: 34.170sec Quick time 34.030sec
Part 2 August 2009 issue of Grassroots Motorsports: Same car and same setup.
Tires sizes are 205/50/15 (AD08, R1R, XS), 225/45-15 (R1R)
Here is a summary of times from worst to first.
4th-Toyo Proxes R1R-Mean time: 35.356sec Quick time 35.264sec
3rd-Bridgestone RE-11-Mean time: 35.398sec Quick time 35.262sec
2nd-Yokohama AD08-Mean time: 34.972sec Quick time 34.827sec
1st-Kumho Ecsta XS-Mean time: 34.728sec Quick time 34.541sec
__________________ 2006 MINI Cooper JCW GP0019
RMW tune & cams*17% pulley*ITG filter*Brisk plugs*H-Sport Comp RSB*KMac camber plates*resonator delete*TSW studs/jack pads*H&R 5mm spacer*CT AX6 pads*Motul RBF600*RedLine*15x7 Motegi TrakLites2*Nitto NT01 205/50-15 BRG/W 2003 MINI Cooper S R.I.P. Sheila
Last edited by howsoonisnow1985; 09-12-2009 at 03:14 AM.
Yeah, and I bet if you got a third publication you'd get a third set of results.
A few issues I had with the Sportscar tests - they spread testing over three days which would seem to mean more variance in conditions, not less. (They said it was "about 75" the whole time ) I preferred GRM's where they re-tested the first tires to see how much improvement there was because of conditions / familiarity with course. Instead, Sportscar kept running the initial fast tire (RS3) for three days.. I also wonder how they figured out tire pressures, because a lot of dismissals were because of "heat sensitivity." Totally off-base pressures could go a long way towards overheating a tire. And with their test car being just under 2800lbs, and half the tires struggled with that weight?? Seems kinda odd, that's hardly portly in the real world. They were also using data acquisition but didn't share any of the data. I'd much rather have had access to that info than raw times on some random course I'll never run.
__________________
[ pics ] [ page ] 2006 HB/W MCS: 15% pulley, intake, full exhaust, 380cc injectors, RMW tune (201whp/191lbs tq), colder plugs, BC coilovers, 22mm rear sway, Alta PSRS bushings, rear control arms, R56 front brakes, Carbotech pads, TSW engine mount, Helix short shift, Outmotoring gauge faces, whizzeels, blah blah blah
Here is the Grassroots Motorsport Results for comparison:
Part 2 August 2009 issue of Grassroots Motorsports: Same car and same setup.
Tires sizes are 205/50/15 (AD08, R1R, XS), 225/45-15 (RE-11)
I believe the R1R was the 225/45-15 in the second comparo. They said the wider width didn't help, but looks like it did gain a few tenths compared to the competition.
The R1R keeps coming up as an "also ran" in these comparos, but they're winning tours and available in some neat sizes (225/45/16) so I think I'm getting a set...
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[ pics ] [ page ] 2006 HB/W MCS: 15% pulley, intake, full exhaust, 380cc injectors, RMW tune (201whp/191lbs tq), colder plugs, BC coilovers, 22mm rear sway, Alta PSRS bushings, rear control arms, R56 front brakes, Carbotech pads, TSW engine mount, Helix short shift, Outmotoring gauge faces, whizzeels, blah blah blah
Yeah, and I bet if you got a third publication you'd get a third set of results.
I believe the R1R was the 225/45-15 in the second comparo. They said the wider width didn't help, but looks like it did gain a few tenths compared to the competition.
The R1R keeps coming up as an "also ran" in these comparos, but they're winning tours and available in some neat sizes (225/45/16) so I think I'm getting a set...
So, thought I'd add the August 2009 issue of Car & Driver tire test results as well. They set a $140 price limit on a 225/45-17 tire. BMW 328i coupe was the car of choice. This test was done in collaboration with Tire Rack at their facility. A variety of test were conducted in both wet and dry conditions, but I will only post dry autocross lap times.
Here is a summary of times from worst to first:
9th Nitto Invo: 60.5 sec
8th Yokohama S.Drive: 60.3 sec
7th Michelin PS2: 60.1 sec
6th BF Goodrich KDW: 60.1 sec
5th Hankook V12 Evo: 59.8 sec
4th Falken RT-615: 59.8 sec
3rd Bridgestone RE760: 59.6 sec
2nd Dunlop Star Specs: 59.3 sec
1st Kumho XS: 59.0 sec
This test included auto-x laps, sound levels, skid pad, braking in both wet and dry conditions. I omitted one tire from the results, the Ling Long.
C&D rated the cars differently, please see link below for those details. Here is the website to article: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
__________________ 2006 MINI Cooper JCW GP0019
RMW tune & cams*17% pulley*ITG filter*Brisk plugs*H-Sport Comp RSB*KMac camber plates*resonator delete*TSW studs/jack pads*H&R 5mm spacer*CT AX6 pads*Motul RBF600*RedLine*15x7 Motegi TrakLites2*Nitto NT01 205/50-15 BRG/W 2003 MINI Cooper S R.I.P. Sheila
I believe the R1R was the 225/45-15 in the second comparo. They said the wider width didn't help, but looks like it did gain a few tenths compared to the competition.
The R1R keeps coming up as an "also ran" in these comparos, but they're winning tours and available in some neat sizes (225/45/16) so I think I'm getting a set...
Redskunk, I'm wearing 225/45-15 R1R this year, on a 15x7 rim.
I've run twice in the wet and once in the dry.
First at the NER Race Against Leukemia weekend at NHIS (an autocross event) where the car took top pax and the Jeff Gorden Challenge Trophy. Absolutely unheard of. I've been running against the NER SCCA crowd for five years now and I know my rank, and that isn't it.
Second, the next day in the dry where I paxed 22nd out of about 70 and was half a second off a good driver that I somehow beat the previous day. That's more like it.
Third time was today, and a NESHOC event at Devens in MA, with rain falling all day. Against AWD, Porsche, some SCCA regulars and all comers I held FTD for the greater part of the day. Again, unheard of.
My conclusion is that I have stumbled into one hell of a wet setup, but on a dry day the RE11 or even last year's Direzzas beat me.
Go figger.
So if you get a set, mebbe you should pray for rain...
Cheers,
Charlie
__________________
Charlie Thompson
'04 MCS, Works
NER SCCA - STX
Quaife, H&R Coil Overs, LCA, Rear Sway, Webb Camber Plates, Borla Race, and Cupholder Delete. Kosei K1 at 15x7 +38. Tuning by Turner Motorsport of Amesbury MA.
Charlie, nice meeting you yesterday. I'm the other guy with the MINI that worked the corner with you yesterday. I'm hoping I'll meet up with you at another event so I can get a ride along. Nice driving at NESHOC.
Charlie, nice meeting you yesterday. I'm the other guy with the MINI that worked the corner with you yesterday. I'm hoping I'll meet up with you at another event so I can get a ride along. Nice driving at NESHOC.
The pleasure was mine. Thanks for making about 30 trips to fix that Chicago box. I'd be glad to have you as company on a run - I'll keep an eye on the NESHOC schedule. NER SCCA has two events on October also I believe.
__________________
Charlie Thompson
'04 MCS, Works
NER SCCA - STX
Quaife, H&R Coil Overs, LCA, Rear Sway, Webb Camber Plates, Borla Race, and Cupholder Delete. Kosei K1 at 15x7 +38. Tuning by Turner Motorsport of Amesbury MA.
Redskunk, I'm wearing 225/45-15 R1R this year, on a 15x7 rim.
So if you get a set, mebbe you should pray for rain...
Ah, more food for thought. OK, I'm pulling the trigger on Kumho XS in 215/45-16 instead ($95/per, can't beat that). My 7.5" wide wheels are still taken and it's arguable whether the wider R1R would be of any benefit on the 7" wide set. Wish I had the choice of Hankook RS3 in 16". This purchase is for teh track, although they'll end up getting autocrossed too I'm sure.
__________________
[ pics ] [ page ] 2006 HB/W MCS: 15% pulley, intake, full exhaust, 380cc injectors, RMW tune (201whp/191lbs tq), colder plugs, BC coilovers, 22mm rear sway, Alta PSRS bushings, rear control arms, R56 front brakes, Carbotech pads, TSW engine mount, Helix short shift, Outmotoring gauge faces, whizzeels, blah blah blah
) I preferred GRM's where they re-tested the first tires to see how much improvement there was because of conditions / familiarity with course. Instead, Sportscar kept running the initial fast tire (RS3) for three days.. I also wonder how they figured out tire pressures, because a lot of dismissals were because of "heat sensitivity." Totally off-base pressures could go a long way towards overheating a tire. And with their test car being just under 2800lbs, and half the tires struggled with that weight?? Seems kinda odd, that's hardly portly in the real world. They were also using data acquisition but didn't share any of the data. I'd much rather have had access to that info than raw times on some random course I'll never run.
