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Put some carbotech brakes pads (AX6) on the front of my MINI today. Stopping power is obviously greater than the oem pads.
I've went through the first part of the bedding procedure and am currently waiting for them to cool to ambient for round two.
One thing I don't like so far about them is they squeel at neighborhood speeds and soft breaking.
My question(s):
Did I not use enough grease in the right places?
Is it normal and it'll go away after the pads have settled in?
Is it normal for this type of pad and I'll just have to live with it?
Will it stop if I grease the rotors? (j/k!)
Anyone with the AX6 pads enlighten me with your experience?
oh yea, got them from Dustin at www.autoxcooper.com - he's been very helpful.
__________________ Laser Blue/White MCS delivered 3/8/07. Off lease 5/17/09.
Tigger - 2009 JCW delivered 4/27/09, FMIC, boost gauge, Striped and tinted
Alta AccessPORT tune - 267wtq & 219whp
MINI #3 - 2011 White Silver/Black MCS. Delivered 5/11/11. All glass tinted;bobcat pads;OZ Ultra Leggeras;205/50/16 Starspecs
Last edited by MotorMouth; 09-16-2008 at 07:40 PM.
Did you follow Carbotech's recommendation and mount new rotors - or resurface the old ones - prior to installing the new pads? If not, that could be the source of the squealing.
Hello fellas,
Perhaps I can help. I'm Mike Jr. I'm the brake guy here with Autoxcooper. The squealing that your getting with the AX6 is completely normal. It's a performance pad, it will make some noise. Try putting Permatex (or any brand) anti-squeal gel on the backing plates and re-installing the pads. The gel does work, it acts as a sound absorber of sorts. That goes for the rear pads as well. It can be picked up at any local autoparts store. The bite is tremendous, but it is not a track pad. It was designed for autocross and works extremely well on the street. I have it on my car and I just turn the radio up louder. Feel free to post any other questions or PM me if you would like to.
Thanks,
Mike Jr.
Last edited by MikeJr@AutoXCooper.com; 09-19-2008 at 07:51 AM.
I suspected as much but wanted to make sure. I did use some anti-squeel grease on them (came in a little packet from Checkers) but didn't know how much to use so i just used a thin layer. Looking at the pads after the first half of the break in procedure though it looks like it may have cooked off lol. I haven't been able to do the second half yet - gotta find a time and place where i can get it up to the recommended speeds safely. Looking at the rotors I can tell pad material hasn't been deposited uniformly across the whole face yet.
Now that I know it's normal for this type of pad I won't be worried about it. Dustin told me to expect some noise but I wasn't sure if it was squeel noise or the friction noise when you slow quickly from higher speeds that he was refering to.
Overall very happy with the increased braking power it has now - which I know isn't at full potential until I get the bedding process complete.
__________________ Laser Blue/White MCS delivered 3/8/07. Off lease 5/17/09.
Tigger - 2009 JCW delivered 4/27/09, FMIC, boost gauge, Striped and tinted
Alta AccessPORT tune - 267wtq & 219whp
MINI #3 - 2011 White Silver/Black MCS. Delivered 5/11/11. All glass tinted;bobcat pads;OZ Ultra Leggeras;205/50/16 Starspecs
I have the XP10s on the front and the XP8s on the rear, bought them from autoXcooper and talked with Mike from Carbotech before I mounted them. They are incredible both on the track and on the street. They are noisy on soft braking / slow speeds as you have noted, but WOW! are they worth having just the same. I find that bit of squeaky noise to be a badge of honor
I'm going to use that! Thanks for the positive feedback and the input guys, it is greatly appreciated.
Motormouth, when you did the initial bed-in procedure, did you get the pads to fade? If not, have they faded on you yet? That is what you are looking for. If you have gone out and gone hard, chances are you got the pads hot enough to fade. It only needs to happen once, and then you let them cool. Once that is done, the pads never have to bedded again. There ready to go. You might have already done it.
Did you follow Carbotech's recommendation and mount new rotors - or resurface the old ones - prior to installing the new pads? If not, that could be the source of the squealing.
Diploman, your right, the leftover buildup or residue of any old material can make the squeal louder. New rotors and bed-in help reduce it but don't usually eliminate it.The anti-squeal gel is the only thing that really works.
I have the XP10s on the front and the XP8s on the rear, bought them from autoXcooper and talked with Mike from Carbotech before I mounted them. They are incredible both on the track and on the street. They are noisy on soft braking / slow speeds as you have noted, but WOW! are they worth having just the same. I find that bit of squeaky noise to be a badge of honor
i have xp8's up front and stock rear like you i have a bit of squeak but the stopping power more than makes up for it
Motormouth, when you did the initial bed-in procedure, did you get the pads to fade?
Mike Jr.
are you kidding?
I don't have a track.. I did at least a dozen 70-80 mph to 10mph fairly hard stops and never felt a hint of fade although the brakes did get pretty stink from the heat. I realize you are supposed to do it to the point of fading but with the speeds I was comfortable getting up to on the street it just didn't happen.
Maybe I can find an officer who would do it for me ;)
__________________ Laser Blue/White MCS delivered 3/8/07. Off lease 5/17/09.
Tigger - 2009 JCW delivered 4/27/09, FMIC, boost gauge, Striped and tinted
Alta AccessPORT tune - 267wtq & 219whp
MINI #3 - 2011 White Silver/Black MCS. Delivered 5/11/11. All glass tinted;bobcat pads;OZ Ultra Leggeras;205/50/16 Starspecs
I'm not kidding about the fade. It does take some effort and time. It took me 15 passes in a 3000 pound car to get the pads to fade. 8 passes from 60 MPH to 30 MPH, one minute cool off (drove without touching the brakes) and then I went from 70-75 MPH down to 25 MPH until they faded. You don't have to go incredibly fast, you just have to generate a lot of heat to boil the resins and release the gases. It sounds like you may have gotten close, you may even have taken them far enough. They will be fine for the street, but keep this in mind. The next track day you go to, expect fade around the 4rth or 5th lap. If that happens, take it easy the rest of the lap, trying not to hit the brakes and take the car in to the paddock and let the pads cool. A good hour and your ready to go. If they fade and you continue to run hard, the pads will glaze and then you will lose a significant amount of braking power. It doesn't completely ruin the pads, they would have to be slightly ground to remove the glaze. I hope this helped, feel free to PM me if you have any more questions.
Hope this is related enough asI'm considering a set of bobcats in the future for my JCW brakes, any feedback? Not meaning to steal the thread, but it is a carbotech subject
__________________
2006 MCS JCW #20/64 Competiton Edition (Canada's version of the GP but only 64), JCW Suspension, JCW Brakes, JCW Body kit, JCW Engine & exhaust with JCW header, ITG Filter, Brisk Plugs, RMW Tuned @ 196WHP, JCW CF dash, shifter and ebrake handle. English Panther Leather, full load, JCW R112 Challenge wheels summer and R98 webspokes winter {sig pic by COOPERation}
I just put on XP10 front and XP8 in the rear. Mikejr is absolutely right, lots of disk brake quiet and it is OK. What I also like is that you do not smell them as much in really heavy braking.
I woke up at 3:00 am to bed the brakes. Best to do it away from people.
#20Works4me
Bobcats looks like a great alternative. You should call Dustin at AutoXcooper and he will be happy to give you a rundown on them. I do not currently have them but I am definately thinking of moving to them during the winter months. Also there are quite a few NAM forum threads that talk about them.
I mounted Carbotechs on my mini without turnng or replacing the rotors and did have a little tiny squeeking when driving without the brakes on. Now the noise has mostly dissappeared. But on the G35, thats a whole other story, nothing but squeeching from the rears and plenty of dusting, but it was my fault for not turning or replacing the rotors.
I mounted Carbotechs on my mini without turnng or replacing the rotors and did have a little tiny squeeking when driving without the brakes on. Now the noise has mostly dissappeared. But on the G35, thats a whole other story, nothing but squeeching from the rears and plenty of dusting, but it was my fault for not turning or replacing the rotors.
I mounted Carbotechs on my mini without turnng or replacing the rotors and did have a little tiny squeeking when driving without the brakes on. Now the noise has mostly dissappeared. But on the G35, thats a whole other story, nothing but squeeching from the rears and plenty of dusting, but it was my fault for not turning or replacing the rotors.
Oliver- I didn't believe until I tried it for the first time, but the gel does work. It acts as a vibration dampner and reduces or eliminates the noise. I too am interested in which pads you put on. How did the pads work when you first switched them? Sometimes the pad material's don't work well together and the braking can actually get worse until the rotors are cleaned of old deposits.
Hope this is related enough asI'm considering a set of bobcats in the future for my JCW brakes, any feedback? Not meaning to steal the thread, but it is a carbotech subject
It's more than close enough to the subject. The Bobcat 1521 pad is one of the best all around street pads that you can buy. Stopping power is strong yet, it is a low dust, quiet pad that will last significantly longer than OEM and won't tear up your rotors. You cannot get all of that in any other pad.
Hello I don't want to steal the thread, but I'm in need of new brake pads, and was thinking of the 1521 pads. I was curious, as far as I know, my OEM rotors have 64k miles on them (unless the previous owner replaced them, then ~17k on them). I know it's recommended to replace the rotors, but should I? I don't want to replace the rotors unless I HAVE to, for money reasons, but also don't want to be unsafe.
If you guys do recommend me changing the rotors, which brand should I get (slotted), and is it worthwhile (and difficult) to change the brake lines to stainless steel? I use my MINI for only street driving. Auto X Cooper has this set: http://www.autoxcooper.com/performancepackages.html
"5% Better Brake Kit for R50, R52 and R53
Complete Front and Rear Upgrade
Carbotech Bobcat Pads
TSW Carbon Rotors
Ireland Stainless Steel Brake Lines
Motul RBF600 Fluid
$519.95 + $70.00 Shipping"
Is it really worth it for my application, or should I just buy a set of OEM pads and be done? I LOVE being able to stop, but that's a lot of money imo. Any input is awesome, thanks!
-Cody
__________________
"Gizmo" - 03' IB/B MCS! 77' Kawasaki KZ650
Aftermarket: ALTA CAI, ALTA Catless Header, Magnaflow Exhaust, M7 16% Pulley, M7 OCC, VGS, LOTF Engine Damper
2010 Harley 883 Iron
Since you're installing the Bobcats, you are on topic enough I think. These pads are a good choice. I speak from first-hand experience and various other testimonials scattered throughout NAM.
Rotors with 64K miles on them might not have enough thickness left to resurface. In any event, you absolutely need to get the ones you have turned or else replace them. Some people advocate replacement in any situation. These other preexisting threads might help you make your decision -
You really only need the brake fluid if you're planning on replacing the brake lines. Your existing fluid should have been flushed at Maintenance II (if not before) if all of the routine maintenance checks were completed as scheduled. I consider the stainless steel brake lines to be a "nice-to-have" if you are really into maximizing performance or want the extra bling. Plus, if this is a DIY it's a whole heck of a lot easier to stick with the rotors and pads because you don't have to flush and bleed the system.
For full disclosure, I installed the Bobcat 1521's and PowerSlot rotors on all four corners this past summer. I'm perfectly satisfied with the results.
"...indeed the love that the horses of the Rangers bore for their riders was so great that they were willing to face even the terror of the Door, if their masters' hearts were steady..." --- J.R.R. Tolkien
Hrrm, thanks for the info. Breaking it into prices, the kit saves me (with the same components bought separately) $29 (total is $520). With the Power Slots, the cost will be a lot more, which I'm not willing to spend.
Bobs and TSW rotors would be: $440. So, basically is it worth spending $80 on SS lines and fluid? To my knowledge, the last time the brake fluid was replaced was when the previous owner changed the brakes (~18k or so miles)...but I'm not sure if he did or not. Which means, I should probably change it to be on the safe side, correct? I haven't felt any pulsing or resistance of any kind on my pedal, however (I guess) due to the pads not being as thick, I obviously have to press much harder to brake, and it feels "light" if you will. IMO, it doesn't feel like I have much bite anymore.
Oh BTW: This will be a DIY job, but with my father helping me! (he was a mechanic)
-Cody
__________________
"Gizmo" - 03' IB/B MCS! 77' Kawasaki KZ650
Aftermarket: ALTA CAI, ALTA Catless Header, Magnaflow Exhaust, M7 16% Pulley, M7 OCC, VGS, LOTF Engine Damper
2010 Harley 883 Iron
Hrrm, thanks for the info. Breaking it into prices, the kit saves me (with the same components bought separately) $29 (total is $520). With the Power Slots, the cost will be a lot more, which I'm not willing to spend.
Bobs and TSW rotors would be: $440. So, basically is it worth spending $80 on SS lines and fluid? To my knowledge, the last time the brake fluid was replaced was when the previous owner changed the brakes (~18k or so miles)...but I'm not sure if he did or not. Which means, I should probably change it to be on the safe side, correct? I haven't felt any pulsing or resistance of any kind on my pedal, however (I guess) due to the pads not being as thick, I obviously have to press much harder to brake, and it feels "light" if you will. IMO, it doesn't feel like I have much bite anymore.
Oh BTW: This will be a DIY job, but with my father helping me! (he was a mechanic)
-Cody
Look at the pads to look at the thickness. If they are close to the thickness of the backing plate, they need to be replaced. If the low brake pad warning light is not on, you could reuse the low pad sensors. Make sure the pads have the slots for the sensors. I think standard Bobs come with but check this.
If I were you and had "free" help, I would do the entire job: Bobs, rotors and fluid. SS brake lines to me are optional.
Make sure you bed the pads properly.
Last edited by slinger688; 10-08-2008 at 04:09 PM.
Reason: spelling
"...indeed the love that the horses of the Rangers bore for their riders was so great that they were willing to face even the terror of the Door, if their masters' hearts were steady..." --- J.R.R. Tolkien
I'm not kidding about the fade. It does take some effort and time. It took me 15 passes in a 3000 pound car to get the pads to fade. 8 passes from 60 MPH to 30 MPH, one minute cool off (drove without touching the brakes) and then I went from 70-75 MPH down to 25 MPH until they faded. You don't have to go incredibly fast, you just have to generate a lot of heat to boil the resins and release the gases. It sounds like you may have gotten close, you may even have taken them far enough. They will be fine for the street, but keep this in mind. The next track day you go to, expect fade around the 4rth or 5th lap. If that happens, take it easy the rest of the lap, trying not to hit the brakes and take the car in to the paddock and let the pads cool. A good hour and your ready to go. If they fade and you continue to run hard, the pads will glaze and then you will lose a significant amount of braking power. It doesn't completely ruin the pads, they would have to be slightly ground to remove the glaze. I hope this helped, feel free to PM me if you have any more questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by polizei
What does it mean to "bed" the brakes, and how does one do this? A guide would be helpful as to how to break in the pads.
Thanks guys!
-Cody
Cody, see above. Brake hard to heat brakes to bed them.
Laser Blue/White MCS delivered 3/8/07. Off lease 5/17/09.
new-2011 MCSa. Traded in->2007-DS-R56-S..PAW Tuned!..Rooster Red line interior..Alta Boost Gauge.LSD.Xenons.ALTA CBE..FORGE FMIC..M7 Boost tube..DIY-9" AEM Dry-flow filter.M7 coilovers..M7 FSB..H-Sport 19mm RWB.Eibach RLCA..Street-17x7.5" Rota Boost Flat Black w/Red lip..Hankook V12 215/45ZR17.5mm H&R wheel spacers up-front.Track17x7''[COLOR=black] Enkei RP02.Hankook RS-2 215/45ZR17.Carbotech XP-10 Pads.StopTech Slotted rotors..S/S lines
Nikki ... '07 MCS JCW+
ROHERYN -- 2011 MCS SO/W -- 
