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  #1  
Old 09-01-2003, 12:25 AM
Chitown_COOP Chitown_COOP is offline
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Ok. I know where the regular jack points are. Is this the best place to use the jack? Where should I insert jack stands? I have the "standard" kind where the jack stand tops are slightly "U" shaped...a little help?


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  #2  
Old 09-01-2003, 12:30 AM
'*Ace*' '*Ace*' is offline
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There is a spot right behind the jack point in the front. It is one of Randy's How-Tos. I put a rag inbetween the jack and the car to insure that it sisn't scratch. You should be able to get enough clearance with that. The point is like right behind the front jack points, so if you were looking at the jack point in the front of the car from the side, it would be in like 4 inches. Check the exhaust How-To I think it is. Good luck.
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  #3  
Old 09-01-2003, 10:43 AM
Chitown_COOP Chitown_COOP is offline
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Thanks Cooperspeed. I'm assuming that this is what you're talking about:

Click the image to open in full size.

It's from Randy's Brake Bleed How-to. I was thinking that you would use the stands on the same line as the two jack points, but it looks like Randy actually uses the jack on the frame and then puts the stands at the jack points themselves.

Anyone else have $ .02 to add?


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Old 09-01-2003, 02:11 PM
vespa vespa is offline
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I wouldn't do that. There's virtually nothing holding those plastic blocks to the car. Anything more than a gentle breeze will blow the car right off of those blocks. The only time it's safe to use those is with a lift.
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Old 09-01-2003, 02:21 PM
Chitown_COOP Chitown_COOP is offline
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So what would you do?


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  #6  
Old 09-01-2003, 02:23 PM
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I jack up the fromt of the car using the stock jack points (make sure the pins are pushed in! Reach up inside, and you will know if they are not). This raises the entire side of the car. Block the oposite front wheel. Then put a stand under the rear, gently lower the car, and do the other side. That gets just the rear up. if you are lifting the wole side, that jack point on the frame shouls do the trick.


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Old 09-01-2003, 02:50 PM
minitothemax minitothemax is offline
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I used Randy's jack point to raise mine and used the standard points for the stands. Being the scaredy cat that I am, I also placed some logs close to the frame as a backup. When you jack up the car high enough to place a stand under one side, the back tire also lifts off the ground so be sure to place chucks on the opposite side. I really had no problems with it. Just make sure you are on stable, level ground.
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Old 09-01-2003, 02:53 PM
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The jack points are fine. Nice and secure...
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Old 09-01-2003, 03:12 PM
Chitown_COOP Chitown_COOP is offline
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Well...it sounds like the consensus is that the "standard" jack points are the best jack-stand points. I don't really understand how there could be a problem. I mean, with the weight of the whole car on everything, I don't see how a stiff breeze (or whatever) would matter...it seems like everything would be fine regardless.


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Old 09-01-2003, 03:23 PM
minitothemax minitothemax is offline
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On the other side of the discussion, I do remember a long time ago of someone having a problem where the plastic jack point broke off and his car fell off the hydraulic jack and messed up the side of his car. Because of that I made an adapter out of wood that is round on one side to fit the hydraulic jack and square on the other to fit inside the plastic jack point. It works really well if you are only jacking up the car but doesn't help with jack stands. I'll try and do a search on MINI2 to see if I can find the story.
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Old 09-01-2003, 03:34 PM
minitothemax minitothemax is offline
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I'm not sure this is the same story,but here is one.MINI falling off jack
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Old 09-01-2003, 03:54 PM
vespa vespa is offline
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I have a little plastic accessory for my floor jack. It's a cube of plastic with a slot cut in it that rests on the jack pad -- it's intended for jacking at the seams. I lift the car from the seam and then put the stands where Randy has his jack.
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Old 09-02-2003, 11:29 AM
russko russko is offline
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I use a small block of wood on both my floor jack and jack stands. Soft wood placed with the grain perpendicular to the pressure will crush slightly, & conform to the jack point & jack.

I have used the front jack point for lifting & placed stands under the rear jack points (again, with a small wood block) & also under the front sub-frame.

I do remember, though, how prone to rotation the plastic blocks are on the stock jack points. - Next time I need stands under the rear I will rethink the location.

If you rotate your own tires and/or change over for winter, I highly reccomend a floor jack. Since I sprung for one from Sears, tire rotation is down to 25 min. including two sets of locking lugs. Previously I had been using the scissors jack from my wife's CRV and I will not miss all the cranking.
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  #14  
Old 09-02-2003, 11:47 AM
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Using either the 'plastic' jack points or the one suggested by Randy is fine. I just make damn sure that the floor jack I am using is perpendicular to the car and is able to roll in and out freely. I think the reason why people have had problems with the jack point block coming out and resulting damage is that with a typical floor jack, the jack cup/arm pivots towards the user (handle end of the jack) and the car pivots in the opposite direction. The wheels on the jack must be allowed free movement so as not to put any sideways strain on the jacking point. In other words, the jack must be free to roll under the car as the car is being raised, if not, the opposing forces of the car tipping in one direction and the jack pulling the other direction can be enough to cause the jack point block to pull out and the vehicle to fall onto the raised jack, causing body damage.

The MINI tire-changing jack is designed to pivot the opposite way compared to a hydraulic floor jack, so this is not an issue when using the MINI jack. The MINI jack is not substantial enough to use on a regular basis and should never be used to get under the car unless a jackstand is placed under the car first.


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  #15  
Old 09-23-2003, 07:50 PM
Chitown_COOP Chitown_COOP is offline
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Anyone have any more input on this? After rotating/changing wheels two times, I'm still not very comfortable with my jack point options. I think I chose an improper point on the frame to use my floor jack and ended up indenting an area on COOP's underbelly (not too bad, but I can see it).

I would appreciate some more thoughts from people who are routinely rotating tires or whatever...

Please help!
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  #16  
Old 09-24-2003, 09:22 AM
Chitown_COOP Chitown_COOP is offline
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Pretty please? Does no one in this forum ever raise their car off the ground???

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Old 09-24-2003, 09:37 AM
goin440 goin440 is offline
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I've changed my wheels often and just used a jack like Randy's. I have two jacks, one super duty w/a large pad, another smaller w/a pad fitting the standard jack points fine. I always use the smaller jack, the larger one's pad started to crush the side trim on a test lifting. I just lift one wheel at a time, change, drop, go to next lift point, repeat---no stands. Maybe 15 min total. But I also have access to an air wrench. [don't worry, I use a low setting and re-torque the lug manually]

Good thread, I've been contemplating putting my car on stands in the name of evil [muh hahaaha]. Glad to know what is being done.

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Old 09-24-2003, 09:56 AM
efcmini efcmini is offline
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>>Pretty please? Does no one in this forum ever raise their car off the ground???
>>

I'm with you on this Chitown. I do not feel secure in raising my car even though I've done it about 5 or 6 times now. The other night (when I dropped an allen wrench down into the fan housing, doh!!) I had it up again and had to crawl all the way underneath. When I got around to lowering the car I noticed that the black plastic things had crumbled somewhat. It not only didn't look too good, but it didn't make me feel very good either.

Ken
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  #19  
Old 09-24-2003, 10:25 AM
Chitown_COOP Chitown_COOP is offline
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What are these "pads" that you're using, 440? Where can I get one? I don't want to use wood blocks, and I don't like using rags, because I can't see everything very well...
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  #20  
Old 09-24-2003, 10:38 AM
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minihune minihune is offline
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Chitown-
Did you ever get a chance to just call RandyBMC and ask him this question? Let him know you are legitimately concerned and that a simple how to or instruction on what to do would be helpful for all of us that need to maintain some safety when raising our MINIs.
Might be worth the effort and peace of mind. Your MINI thanks you. And safety first-always.
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  #21  
Old 09-24-2003, 10:48 AM
Chitown_COOP Chitown_COOP is offline
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A message has been left!

(Thanks for the bright idea, minihune!)
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Old 09-24-2003, 10:56 AM
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Not sure if I do it right, but I raise the front of the car using a big jack and a piece of wood block on the plate underneith the engine. This plate seem to be part of the frame and has a hole right in the center of it that would fit the big jacks support thingy. This would lift the whole front of the car up at the same time then I put 2 stands on each front plastic cups. Now although I have not lifted the whole car up I think if you lift the rear up first from the jack points and securing it with stands then you can go lift the front as I have explained it to get the whole car up on stands. CAUTION must be used. Observe each pump of the jack and be slow about it.


Peter
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Old 09-24-2003, 11:00 AM
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If I was at home I could show you what I use for safely lifting unibody cars, but I am not so text will have to do for now. :smile:

I have several floor jacks of varying sizes, but the three I use most are your typical 2 1/2 ton 'heavy duty' hydraulic floor jacks that are very common. The saddle (cup) on these is about 5 inches in diameter. I have a couple of very thick, hard, reinforced rubber 'pads' a bit over an inch thick which I cut out of a larger piece of material. I dont know what the original use was for this stuff; I found it in some trash years ago.

Anyway, I have these cut into a circle which fits inside the saddle of the floor jacks. The rubber is actually higher than the lip of the saddles themselves by about a half inch. When placed under a jacking point and lifting the car, the rubber distributes the jacking force over a greater area, and the cushioning and traction provided by the rubber makes it nearly impossible for the jack to slip out. Since the jack saddle is 'dished', the rubber sinks in the middle and accomodates any protrusions on the jack point without placing all the force directly on it. It spreads out the force and prevents damage to the vehicle. There is no way the jack is coming out from under the car if it is being lifted by a proper jacking point either.

A bonus to this method is that the metal part of the jack does not dig into whatever area you are lifting and prevents dents and chipped paint. A pad like this can be cut out of an old tire. I recommend this simple addition to the jack highly.

As for how I lift my MINI to crawl underneath, I use the aforementioned jack w/ pad in a section of the frame to lift the car then place a jack stand under the actual jacking point just like the picture above. I move to the other side and do the same. If I want the car up on 4 stands, I repeat this procedure in the back. With the car on 4 stands I shoved into it with my weight and it was solid. I have no reservations whatsoever getting under the car held up in this fashion.

To those fortunate enough to own or use a twin-post outrigger lift, the factory jack points are perfect for lifting the car. The thing to do is to always check the condition of the plastic block before lifting the car. Make sure it is tight and in good condition, no cracks, chunks missing or loose in it's mount.


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  #24  
Old 09-24-2003, 11:11 AM
Chitown_COOP Chitown_COOP is offline
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Thanks for the info, Greatbear. This most recent time, I guess I wasn't using the right part of the frame (although I've used it before with no problems, I thought!). Using the picture up above as a reference: I was using the area about 3 inches INBOARD from where Randy's jack is positioned. This is sort of an L-shaped strip that runs from just forward of the front jack point to about two-thirds of the way to the rear jack point. I had though that it was pretty heavy-duty frame, but it bent a bit from the lifting...I need to identify the Randy point for next time, I guess...


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Old 09-26-2003, 07:52 PM
chrwilliams chrwilliams is offline
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I saw this link on the mini2 site a while back. I've bought a fair amount of Facom tools from the UG, so I've frequented the site before--I just never stumpled across this section. BTW, I'm in no way affiliated with the UG--in fact, I stopped buying there for a while because I found the owner unacceptably rude. Still, the guy knows his stuff:

MC floor jack/jackstands

To see more details on the jackstands click here:

Jackstands

I'll admit that $100 per jackstand is a bit more than I'd like to pay, but when you think of it, that's the cost of a CAI. Surely one's safety is worth that much? They're also great fetish objects!
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Old 09-26-2003, 07:52 PM
 
 
 
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