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FSD motivation and the current step in the experiment (kinda long, sorry)
For those of you who dont know me, I am in my 50s and an old school drag racer from the muscle car era. when my 05S arrived a year ago, after one trip on the choppy LA freeways, my wife declared she would not, could not tolerate this car again. Within 2 weeks it had H-Sport springs and non runflats on it, and was signifigantly better. Fast forward 3 months and a set of FSD's came my way. They are kinda pricey to experiment with, but I figured I had nothing to lose-never mind "you're not supposed to do that" blah blah blah-if everyone followed that line of thinking, we would be driving 265 c.i. 55 chevys with road draft tubes!! So, on they went, H-sports and all. one drive told me it was the right decision for me-much better ride and handling. Today was the next step.
After awhile, my wife decided she liked this little car very much (the price of fuel helped that, I think) and I relented and she got more wheel time. The H-Sports had lowered our 05S 15/16s of an inch f/r and the little woman was very good at dragging the front bumper. not intentionally, but every 3rd or 4th slow dip or speed bump she would forget and drop the nose in too fast, on the brakes, and the lower bumper lip would drag. no real damage, but I would cringe each time. H&R springs are advertised to drop the car .6 10ths of an inch. Installed them today, and the measured ride height is now 3/8 higher in the rear (6/16 for you math challenged folks) and 7/16 higher in the front. so-the advertised drop for the H&R is .6 or 6/10ths of an inch, or about 9/16. they brought my car up from 15/16 to 6/16 rear and 7/16front, making them "about as advertised-and some cars will differ" the appearance at the front wheels is kind of disheartening-the stance was perfect, imho. there is now a bit of a gap again between the front fender and the tire top. but tonights driving was the real test I was looking for. There are 2 signifigant bumps on overpasses on my freeway commute, and these are my continual test of whether something has improved or gotten worse-they were teeth-breakers when the car was stock, acceptable with the H-Sports, not bad at all with the H-Sport and FSD's and now-with the taller H&Rs they are approaching cushy!! hows it handle? don't yet have an opinion, only drove it on the commute home. an interesting technical note: we compared the springs side by side off the car and there was a definite height difference, as you would expect with the H&R being taller. but-the H&R front spring wire measured .525/inch as checked with a dial caliper and the front H-sport measured .480/inch. so this would make the H&R a little stiffer, methinks to meself, but on the front, where all the weight is on our little cars, that might not hurt-so-to the rears-the H&R wire is.410/inch while the H-Sport is thicker wire, at .440. this partially explains why the height difference front/rear wasn't exactly the same and certainly helps with the cushy feel-will report on the handling soon. draw what conclusions you want from all this, as with all mods, its not for everyone, but these are great shocks, with whatever springs they are used with.
ALSO-MY car has traveled just over 14,000 miles with the FSD/H-Sport combo, and todays inspection revealed nothing alarming on the shocks-no leaks, no bottoming damage-of course it is impossible to tell is there is internal mishaps occuring, but if there is they will show themselves in time via poor handling or blown seals. In the meantime, 14k plus with lowered springs, and the experiment continues on!!!
Go scott... Now you need to get the wife to buy a mini :-D
__________________ MMC #292 Synthia 2006 Mini Cooper S Space Blue with Silver
6-Speed Geartronic With LSD
Sport, Premium and Convience Package
Mods: Alta CAI, Whalen, Schroth Harness, S2K Antenna, boost gauge, H-Sport Comp Rear Sway, M7 USS, H-Sport Springs and upper and lower rear camber adjustments, Dinan Stage 4 Software Vroom Vroomwere my first words Learn to drive the line... Not the drivers ed line you hippy!
Scott,
From what I read at H&R I would expect the opposite as they claim their springs will drop the car 1.2" in the front and 1.3" in the rear. They also claim that their springs are 20-30% stiffer than stock so I am surprised that you find the ride cushier with the H&R's over the H-sport. I am having the FSD's installed tomorrow with H-sports, as the main reason I stayed away from the H&R springs is that I didn't want to drop the car more than 1 inch.
SO its very interesting to read about your experience!
H&R makes more than one spring-I used the least amount of drop choice to try and get the nose up. as for the ride-it is curious that the spring diameter is larger on the fronts, yet smaller on the rears. I am, at this point, thinking the taller spring allows the FSD shock to work better as it was designed (GO AHEAD, NAYSAYERS, FLAME AWAY) and that is at least partly why the ride is improved yet again. but ya gotta try this stuff to find out if/how it works.
I am, at this point, thinking the taller spring allows the FSD shock to work better as it was designed (GO AHEAD, NAYSAYERS, FLAME AWAY) and that is at least partly why the ride is improved yet again. but ya gotta try this stuff to find out if/how it works.
*cough* closer to the stock spring recommendation by Koni *cough*
Interesting results.
Scott: Your post is the first one I have seen that indicated H&R was offering anything other than one set of springs. Are their part numbers you have you could post to identify the spring and corresponding drop?
I think it's critical that anyone considering the FSD/H&R combo be very careful in their spring selection, because H&R most certainly does make springs that lower the MINI more than the H-sports (I've owned both), and those tend to be the ones that are more readily available.
On my s there seems to be alot more gap in the rear wheel wheel and the wheel than in the front. I wonder if it would be possible to use H&R springs in the front and H-sports in the rear?
Remember, your springs will settle over the next few weeks depending on miles and loading, etc.
They are most certainly not at their final height in one day.
2000 miles on the H&R springs/now 16000 on the Koni FSD shocks-I have to say the car is the 'PLUSHEST" it has ever been right now. After some driving the H&rsprings settled in at 3/8 inch higher than the H-Sports, so I do not think the shocks gained that much travel. The springs are likely the best part of the improved ride. handling is still great, ride and response is all it ever was and the wife drove it last saturday and didnt scrape the nose piece once!! Overall, the FSD's work very well with H-Sport and H&R lowering springs, and I will continue to promote them as an excellent mod!!
I have had my FSDs / H-sports installed by Central Coast Coopers for about a month. The handling over all road surfaces is awesome. Great product and great installation.
Scott definitely "walks the walk" with the mods he recommends. Got to meet him at the Malibu SCMM club breakfast last weekend, and he did a great job putting Hawk ceramics on my '06 Cooper (couldn't take the dust any more). Did all 4 and got my calipers painted gratis
My Cooper is standard suspension - nice ride but I could use a little more handling, and I'm not opposed to a very mild drop. I'm really intrigued with the FSDs and the H&R combo is looking pretty good about no. I'm wondering though, has anyone tried the JCW springs (particularly on a Cooper rather than MCS) in combo with the FSDs? As I understand it, the JCW drop is about 1/2 inch only. Curious to me that Koni is now offering FSD/Eiback combos, unless they've done something different with the shocks in the package - I have Eibachs on my audi and the drop is at least a full inch.
2000 miles on the H&R springs/now 16000 on the Koni FSD shocks-I have to say the car is the 'PLUSHEST" it has ever been right now. [Emphasis added.] After some driving the H&rsprings settled in at 3/8 inch higher than the H-Sports, so I do not think the shocks gained that much travel. The springs are likely the best part of the improved ride. handling is still great, ride and response is all it ever was and the wife drove it last saturday and didnt scrape the nose piece once!! Overall, the FSD's work very well with H-Sport and H&R lowering springs, and I will continue to promote them as an excellent mod!!
I would have to agree - and I don't have lowering springs. (Just the stock SS+ springs.) I have put about 1,000 miles on the FSDs, and I continue to be amazed at the quality of the ride. FSDs = (out of a possible 5)
I've got FSD's, H-Sports, JCW struts and JCW springs in the garage. Trying to decide what combo to mount on my car. We also have a Cabrio and the FSD's would be nice on there to exorcise some of the cowl shake.
mini552, not a Cooper but I’ve had JCW springs over the FSDs on a MCS for little over 8,000 miles and had the stock spring combo a couple thousand before that. “Plush” is not applicable to the JCW combo but it isn’t edgy either; the drop is more than .5 inch. Stock springs are a good match for city use.
There was an increase in ride height from stock struts with Alta Sport Springs to FSDs with stock springs because of springs and all new rubber bumpers, not the struts. Non-adjustable struts would not increase ride height alone as long as the lower perch is in the same relative position to the lower strut mounting point; there are a few other structural details including the shaft length, available stroke, and piston thickness that could affect height but then the strut would not be appropriately functional. When I changed the front guide supports from the early model to the later part, ride height increased in the front because of the difference in thickness above the spring hat between the two parts.
roddw, sorry, I just saw you didn’t direct the increase in height question to me. I would like to add one other thing though. If the rear lower spring perch were installed upside down it would cause the rear to sit higher. The pictorial directions accompanying the struts can be confusing.
meb, comfort level with the JCW combo is worse in some aspects and better in others. FSD low amplitude damping is high, combine that with the stiffer springs and the car follows every moderate up & down rise in the road (imagine a lighter version of the Flintstone’s car on the highway). The up sides for performance from that characteristic are reduced dive under braking, less pitch back, and controlled linear body roll. The FSD’s famous rapid response to high amplitude suspension movements provides more comfort over sharp road irregularities; although with the stiff springs they still won’t completely smooth over the lack of compliance in a poly bushing. Because of the variable damping, the car has less tendency to become unsettled when ripple edged corners are encountered.
I don’t want to get too analytical; I’ve probably already given the wrong impression about ride quality, it’s difficult to descriptively differentiate between hard and harsh. My suspension is behaving better than ever because of many variables and the strut spring combo is only a component of synergistic relationships.
Thanks Kieth - I understand the descriptive difficulties with regard to a subjective environment. But I understand what you wrote. Thanks.
I thought the JCW suspension I drove on a couple years back was a nice ride/handling compromise. I imagine the FSDs provide a bit more comfort without a loss in handling...perhaps better where sharp changes in topo exist.
michael
__________________ Damn it Jim! I'm a doctor, not a scientist! Puresilver 05 JCW Blackleather Anthracite BBS RGR Chrono Xenon Coldweather HarmonKardon iPod
Michael, you can come drive my car sometime if you want to feel the FSDs. And 100 less HP
The first time I autocrossed them, I wasn't overly impressed. But last weekend, I changed tire pressures and it was like driving a whole different car. Not sure if I've just been running the wrong tire pressures in the car for the last 2.5 years, or the FSD's like different pressures, or what, but whatever it was it was good.
Michael, you can come drive my car sometime if you want to feel the FSDs. And 100 less HP
The first time I autocrossed them, I wasn't overly impressed. But last weekend, I changed tire pressures and it was like driving a whole different car. Not sure if I've just been running the wrong tire pressures in the car for the last 2.5 years, or the FSD's like different pressures, or what, but whatever it was it was good.
but ya gotta try this stuff to find out if/how it works.
roddw
