HR Coilover or Megan Coilover?

[Minirowski]

I'm sick of bounciness with lowering springs. And I decided to get coilovers for my MCS. I just need to lower the car without sacrificing comfortable ride. Both HR and Megan racing coilovers are reasonable price but I don't know which one is better please help.

[meb]

I responded to your PM before reading this. Your question can only be answered by someone with experience with both brands. I have a lot of experience with dampers/spring and adjustable coilovers, but I still cannot comment about the H&R coilovers.

The Megans feel great. These are also an awsome value if you consider they include an integrated adjustable camber, a pillow ball mount up front, and all four can be set at a ride hieght that does not affect suspension travel - this is a big one for me. The Mini's front end has only four inches of travel. Lower your car one inch an you've got three left. Not so with the Megans. And the spring rates are very sporty for the street and more than adequate for occasional track use - 280lb/in up front and 335 lb/in out back.


These went together without a hitch.

Michael

[Minirowski]

Originally Posted by meb

I responded to your PM before reading this. Your question can only be answered by someone with experience with both brands. I have a lot of experience with dampers/spring and adjustable coilovers, but I still cannot comment about the H&R coilovers.

The Megans feel great. These are also an awsome value if you consider they include an integrated adjustable camber, a pillow ball mount up front, and all four can be set at a ride hieght that does not affect suspension travel - this is a big one for me. The Mini's front end has only four inches of travel. Lower your car one inch an you've got three left. Not so with the Megans. And the spring rates are very sporty for the street and more than adequate for occasional track use - 280lb/in up front and 335 lb/in out back.


These went together without a hitch.

Michael

Thank you for both answers.

Where can I buy Megan Coilovers? PILO still has the pre-sale option.

[MGCMAN]

I run H&R coilovers (Sport not Race). They are harsh for normal street use. Here in the land of heaving asphalt and potholes the size of, well large enough to swallow a MINI, I'm constantly checking my fillings, lest they vibrate loose. If you've got a bad back, don't even consider coilovers. But on smooth roads and the auto-x these things are nice, harsh but nice.

[meb]

I'll PM you with information.

Originally Posted by Minirowski

Thank you for both answers.

Where can I buy Megan Coilovers? PILO still has the pre-sale option.

[AZMCS]

Originally Posted by MGCMAN

I run H&R coilovers (Sport not Race). They are very harsh for normal street use. Here in the land of heaving asphalt and potholes the size of, well large enough to swallow a MINI, I'm constantly checking my fillings, lest they vibrate loose. If you've got a bad back, don't even consider these coilovers. But on smooth roads and the auto-x these things are nice, harsh but nice.

Well I too am running the sport H&R's and strongly disagree. I love the ride. Lost all the "bounciness" that I had when I was running lowering springs and stock struts.

Check out this thread:
http://www.northamericanmotoring.com...ad.php?t=62728

[matma92ser]

Originally Posted by meb

and all four can be set at a ride hieght that does not affect suspension travel - this is a big one for me.

Is this because the lower fork/hub connection is threaded? Can you adjust this while the suspension or wheels are on the car?

How do you adjust the damper on the rear?

I had my mind made up to get the PSS9, but with the recent price increase, I am starting to reconsider. I really like the specs and feature set of the Megan, but have not heard as much ringing endorsement of it like I have with the PSS9.

[meb]

Yes.

Once the spring perches have been set and sufficiently tightened (before the actual install) you can set ride height using two methods for the rear (after the install); remove the bottom bolt from the damper (3 minutes), unclip the ABS and brake lines (10 seconds) loosen the lock ring on top of threaded sleeve (5 seconds) Spin the threaded sleeve up ro down to set ride height (3-15 seconcds), reset the lock ring (10 seconds), reinstall and torque the lower bolt to 103 ft/lbs ( 4 minutes) and you're done. MAKE SURE BOTH SIDES ARE ABSOLUTELY THE SAME. Then, you can leave these as is and drive the car or have the car corner weighted. An alignment is absolutely necessary in either case.

Or, (front and rear) undo the lock ring above the threaded sleeve, and use the special tool to spin one of the two lock rings just below the spring. These should have been tighted against one another when setting the spring height or pre-load. If these are tightened properly, height adjustment is easy; spin the lower one counter clockwise to raise the car, and spin the upper one clockwise to to lower the car. Quite easy really. Re-tighten the lock ring above the threaded sleeve.

I have not drilled the holes yet to make rear damper adjustment possible. Simply use the stock flange (41 ft/lbs) that locates the rear damper as a guide; remove the old spring and dampers from this - using a spring compressor - re-install this flange with the steel dowel in place. Insert the drill thru the dowel using it as a guide and drill away. MAKE SURE THE WIRES ABOVE THIS AREA ARE MOVED TO THE SIDE. YOU MAY REQUIRE HELP WITH THIS. you will need to re-use the stock flange and its components with the rear Megans. After 50K miles on my car, the synthetic isolators(bushings if you will) are still in great shape.

Those with HK stereos will need to remove the amp (behind the right rear panel) - one of the screws is inaccessible by hand but, this is a one time removal...I'm leaving that screw off after the reinstall.

I offered to write up a complete set of instructions for Megan. Steve wrote back and accepted my offer. It will be in more depth than here. I'll include final adjustments that I used for spring perch and ride height so anyone can adjust these before the install. These measurments will be based on a 3/4"- 1" drop. If you follow this method, you will likely never need to adjust ride height after the install. There will be pictures of my car so you can determine what a 1" drop looks like. If you want to adjust lower, simply add to my measure ments; if the spread between the spring perch and threaded housing is 1 3/4" and this yields a 1" drop, simply add 1/2" to get a 1 1/2" drop. Simple!



Hope this helps.

Michael

[flyboy2160]

michael,

i'm looking forward to your writeup.

in the meantime, can you answer a few questions that i haven't been able to get answered from megan?

-what is the max. drop you get from just threading the shock body down into the attach housings? (that is, leaving the maximum amount of damper travel.)

-what is is the rest of the drop available by threading the perches down like you do on a "standard" type coilover?

thanks

[kurvhugr]

Good on ya Michael. The guy who installed my Megans was really impressed and said the only thing he would like to see improved (other than easier adjustment of the rear dampers) is the instructions.

[meb]

There really isn't much room to drop the car using the spring perches alone; the idea here is to set the perches just tight enough to keep the springs from un-seating during full droop. Once a spring is compressed, its rate changes. So, you can in essence change the rate by using the lower perch to compress or pre-load the spring. I would have to experiment with the lower perches to really see what these do to ride height; garden variety perches raise and lower the car and change the rates in the process.

From the perspective of the fender and tire, how low do you want to go?

When I first installed the front kits, the fender obscured the very top of the tires and I had, if I remember, another 1 1/4" of available drop in the sleeve. Now, I don't know if the damper would have gone all the way into the sleeve, but I'll assume so. As an FYI, I drove home that night with that aggressive drop and experienced horrible vibration from the CV joints under acceleration. I raised the car a hair over 5/8" and almost all of the vibration is gone. There is another thread about this and I did contribute.


kurvhugr,

The only other suggestion or question I posed to Steve was about making these 2-3 pounds lighter. It's an easy question, but a complicated process...and expensive. He is concentrating on full race kits now, so I don't know if there is really a street/track light weight demand.

Camber adjustments take about 15 seconds a side...if you discount the affect camber has on toe. Sure was nice to feel what this thing can do with a little more camber. As an aside, I may opt to remove the poly front control arm bushings I just installed. I'm not sure the stock compliance is a bad thing...not from a comfort perspective, but from a handling perspective. If I do remove these I'll do it this weekend.

I'm guessing that cornering will not suffer with the stock bushings, but I think quick transient responses are almost too quick. I believe the pillow ball mount limits the amount of deflection to the control arm bushing. The stock upper mount works in a way that I think transmits more deflection to the control arm bushing. I'm still thinking about this one...

The ride, by the way, is more than tolerable with the dampers set at 12 clicks from full hard. I was worried about the pillow ball mount up front. It does transmit a hair more grainyness from the tires into the driving experience, but nothing that stands out. If you drove a Mini the first time and these were part of the set-up, you wouldn't question it. Definately a good ride considering the linear spring rates; Megan did a pretty damn good job with the damping for a street/track set up. I'll be at LRP in one week. I'll report back. The value is quite incredible in my experience.

The instructions will take a few weeks; I work full time, have a wife and children, but more importantly, I'm setting up my car and going to the track - takes a little time.

I can offer these hieght suggestions now - and this is a semi conservative drop with a little rear rake:

Front springs - distance between upper and lower perch, 6". Distance between lower lock ring on perch and the top of the threaded body 1 1/4" - I NEED TO DOUBLE CHECK THIS...

Rear springs - distance between upper and lower perch, 6 1/4". Distance between lower lock ring on perch and the top of the threaded body 1 1/2" - I NEED TO DOUBLE CHECK THIS...

...SORRY, I'VE ALREADY FORGOTTEN THE THREADED LENGTH...I'M OLD! THE MINI IS CURRENTLY HAVING THE WINDSHIELD REPLACED SO I'LL CHECK TOMORROW.

Originally Posted by flyboy2160

michael,

i'm looking forward to your writeup.

in the meantime, can you answer a few questions that i haven't been able to get answered from megan?

-what is the max. drop you get from just threading the shock body down into the attach housings? (that is, leaving the maximum amount of damper travel.)

-what is is the rest of the drop available by threading the perches down like you do on a "standard" type coilover?

thanks

[cooldaddy]

Michael, thanks for posting these very detailed notes, it's very much appriciated. I'm also one of those folks who was looking at the PPS9's but with the recent price increase the Megan's are looking better & better. Keep posting notes and soon others (I) will follow...

Marcel
Oklahoma City Posse

[AZMCS]

Originally Posted by cooldaddy

Michael, thanks for posting these very detailed notes, it's very much appriciated. I'm also one of those folks who was looking at the PPS9's but with the recent price increase the Megan's are looking better & better. Keep posting notes and soon others (I) will follow...

Marcel
Oklahoma City Posse

Poor Bilstein. Pricing themsleves right out of the market.

[meb]

I would have purchased the Megans price independent. I have no experience with the PSS9s, but I believe everything good that has been said or written about them based on past experience with bilstein products. I was simply looking for a linear spring, something in the 300-350lb/in range, designed with dampers with good damping characteristics. The additional features - integrated camber and height adjustment that does not affect travel were simply too good to pass up. The monoball was my only hesitation for the street. It works fine.

This is just an all-round good set-up that goes beyond the stock package without overkill for anyone who wants to track occasionally but uses his or her car as a daily commuter. The Bilstein also fits most of that, but I was drawn to the subtleties. And, I did not want a progressive rate spring.

I'll likely put between 4,000 and 5,000 commuter miles on these each month with a minimum of 6 track days - I've signed up for 6 to date. I'll keep everyone posted about how these feel during the long haul.

[agile_moments]

what other coil overs come with upper pillow ball mounts and front camber plates? I think that's what's drawing me to the Megan coilovers

[FUEGO]

How much negative camber can you dial into the front end? I've been looking at the Ireland adjustable plates and PSS9s but the price point of the Bilsteins is hard to justify for someone who is just getting into AX, and plans to do only a couple of DEs per year. The Megan setup seems ideal for me but I wonder if anyone has used them in an AX setup yet.

[meb]

There are four allen bolts (small, so we can call these screws too) that locate the slider and therefore camber. There are six holes for these allen bolts; three on one side of the damper and three on the other - both sets of holes perpendicular to the car's center line. The Megans come with the allen bolts installed at the outer two locations. All you need to do to get more negative camber is remove the two allen bolts that are close to the car's center line and reinstall these in the middle holes. Then, the entire asembly will slide closer to the center of the car - more negative camber.

The range of the slider that these allen bolts fit into dictates the amount of camber. So, if you move the two inner bolts to the available center location, the damper slides farther before hitting the end of the slider's range. you should be able to about 2.5 degrees negative camber...maybe more. I'll know this answer tomorrow; the car will be corner balanced and aligned. I'll ask the tech to check the available range.

Just keep in mind, as you decrease roll and roll rates via stiffer springs/dampers/swaybars, less negative camber is required. If you dial in lots of static camber on a car with huge spring rates for example, you may be cornering on the inside corner of the tire tread. There ain't lots of grip there.

[FUEGO]

Thanks meb. -2.0 to -2.5 should be enough. This is looking better all the time although I'm anxious to see opinions (post-installation) on performance, adjustability and settings before jumping on the bandwagon.

[Scooby03]

Myself, I like the Megans. They ride and handle nice. Took the Mini on a very spirited drive on the way back from AMVIV. Handled very nice. The swaybar was nice also.
We will be installing the Megans on SRTech's Mini in the next couple of weeks. He will be able to tell you a lot more.

[meb]

My corner weight is put off until Thursday. So I won't be able to write about the camber range up front until Friday.

Saturday I'll be at Lime Rock Park all day. The forecast is for thunderstorms...lets hope not. If the weather is good I'll give it a rip and report back. Rain will definately suck

[Megan Racing]

Originally Posted by meb

My corner weight is put off until Thursday. So I won't be able to write about the camber range up front until Friday.

Saturday I'll be at Lime Rock Park all day. The forecast is for thunderstorms...lets hope not. If the weather is good I'll give it a rip and report back. Rain will definately suck

So I finally noticed this thread buuuuuuuuuuuuuut.... it seems like Meb already has this taken care of.

[groove67]

If you want to go with the stein's but dont like the price look very hard at the H&R's. To my understanding the PSS and H&R's are the same and the PSS9's have the ability to adjust the damping of the shock, from stiff to bad back stiff. For all three set's the shocks are Bilstein and the springs are H&R they have worked together on this. I have a set of steins on my camaro and have been very impressed for 4 years there is no bounce with the lowering springs and it was a daily driver for 4 years. Ask the guys at mini2 also

Allen

[groove67]

[DK23]

I am in total agreement with MEB's comments about Megan. I'm also running 12 clicks from full hard and very low ride height. No vibration, great ride, control, and track performance. Plan to experiment with even stiffer for track, but the 12 works pretty darn well. Running -2.25 front camber -1/9 rear. Plan on more pyro tests to make sure this is track optimal, but early indications show pretty even temps across the tire face. (18"). No problems at all, and high praise from my race shop installer about the quality and performance.

[meb]

DK23,

I took your advise with regard to the 12 clicks from full hard. This is a nice street track compromise...but I was at 9 front and rear at LRP...long boring story.