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This FSD debate is burried in another thread somewhere. A member called Koni tech support (not sales) and was told the Koni's with eibach's use a different valving and are not made for our cars (yet).
I was told this too.. they sell some kits that include Eibach springs, and in those kits, the shocks are properly paired to the lowering springs. But the standalone shock applications, including for our cars, are made for stock-height springs, and not recommended for use with lowering springs.
I went with the H&R Touring Cup kit. It was on sale from Alta for $600 at the end of the year, a smokin' deal. You get H&R's "OEM Sport" lowering springs, which provide a claimed 1.4" drop at both ends, and Koni Yellows, painted in dark metallic grey to match the springs, and adorned with a sticker that says "H&R" and "made in Germany". But they are also stamped with Koni's name and "made in Holland", and the adjustment knob provided for the fronts is the same old Koni knob that comes with the yellows, complete with Koni name and logo. Theoretically, these are custom-valved to match the springs.. or maybe they're not. Either way, they're the classic Koni yellow, and at $600 for the whole kit-n-kaboodle, it's a great package deal.
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'10 MCS "Jethro". All PW, aero kit, carbon black lounge leather, anthracite h/l, Cream White c/l, convenience, cold weather, xenon, rear fogs, nav, h/k sound, white turns, H&R touring cup kit, BBS LM's (aka "Let's Motor"), Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2's. '07 Z4M Coupe, bone stock.
I was told this too.. they sell some kits that include Eibach springs, and in those kits, the shocks are properly paired to the lowering springs. But the standalone shock applications, including for our cars, are made for stock-height springs, and not recommended for use with lowering springs.
I went with the H&R Touring Cup kit. It was on sale from Alta for $600 at the end of the year, a smokin' deal. You get H&R's "OEM Sport" lowering springs, which provide a claimed 1.4" drop at both ends, and Koni Yellows, painted in dark metallic grey to match the springs, and adorned with a sticker that says "H&R" and "made in Germany". But they are also stamped with Koni's name and "made in Holland", and the adjustment knob provided for the fronts is the same old Koni knob that comes with the yellows, complete with Koni name and logo. Theoretically, these are custom-valved to match the springs.. or maybe they're not. Either way, they're the classic Koni yellow, and at $600 for the whole kit-n-kaboodle, it's a great package deal.
$600 is a ripping deal.
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Factory built 08/08 MINI JCW: JCW Aerokit, M7 C-Wing, Bilstein PSS10, Vorshlag camber plates, RennSport Racing Rear Upper and Lower Control Arms, Howerton Engineering HFS-3 w/ Race Tank, Whiteline 20mm RSB, RMW Tune, Dunlop Direzza Star Spec Z1, DoS CAI, Evolve FMIC, BSH OCC + Dual Boost Port, NM SSK, etalj-spec torque arm ;), Goodridge SS Brake Lines, Endless RF-650 fluid, Carbotech XP12s, ALTA PSRS, Powergrid adjustable endlinks, Challenge Decals
toss the H&R springs in the in the dumper and replace with NM or Tsw springs and then you would have a decent lowdollar setup.
And exactly why are either of those alternatives superior to H&R? Neither makes their own springs.. NM's are made for them by Gruber of Germany, and I have no idea who makes TSW's springs. H&R is a well-established brand, both in the OEM and aftermarket. I'm not knocking either of the alternatives as I've never driven on them, and in NM's case, the Neumann family has a ton of credibility from their decades in VW tuning. I just don't understand what's "wrong" with H&R that would cause anyone to suggest that they belong "in the dumper".
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'10 MCS "Jethro". All PW, aero kit, carbon black lounge leather, anthracite h/l, Cream White c/l, convenience, cold weather, xenon, rear fogs, nav, h/k sound, white turns, H&R touring cup kit, BBS LM's (aka "Let's Motor"), Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2's. '07 Z4M Coupe, bone stock.
Interesting read here regarding the Touring Cup kit. I have been researching over the last few weeks as I am scheduled to take delivery in about 4 weeks. I have found the effort dizzying at times. I really wanted to go the coilover route but after more research and weighing my objectives with the car, I am thinking that the touring cup kit may be a nice option. I like the price range and I don't plan on having this car on a track so, the lowering desired is for elimination of wheel gap and performance driving/stability when needed.
KevinC,
Out of curiousity, does the Touring kit really deliver the 1.4" FR & RR as advertised? Would you mind showing a picture if you would be so kind? How would you describe the ride quality? Thanks for your input guys!
Out of curiousity, does the Touring kit really deliver the 1.4" FR & RR as advertised? Would you mind showing a picture if you would be so kind? How would you describe the ride quality?
I didn't measure before/after, but I'd guess that 1.4" is about right in front, but not as much in the rear, with a slightly "raked" look being the outcome. I'd guess the rear drop is more like 1.1 - 1.2".
As for driving impressions, I don't agree with the notion that the H&R OE Sports springs are "too low". I definitely wouldn't want to go any lower in front, and wouldn't mind them being slightly taller, but this is fine. No scraping except in extreme circumstances and no tire clearance issues. I DO however agree (to some degree) that they aren't firm enough (and I suspect the shock valving is also partly to blame for this). They're fine as a street setup, but for track/autocross use, they are on the soft side. Definitely a MAJOR upgrade from stock - both in ride comfort (drastic improvement, especially with the runflats banished) and handling.
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'10 MCS "Jethro". All PW, aero kit, carbon black lounge leather, anthracite h/l, Cream White c/l, convenience, cold weather, xenon, rear fogs, nav, h/k sound, white turns, H&R touring cup kit, BBS LM's (aka "Let's Motor"), Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2's. '07 Z4M Coupe, bone stock.
Definitely a MAJOR upgrade from stock - both in ride comfort (drastic improvement, especially with the runflats banished) and handling.
Just got new wheels with regular tires...the ride is so much nicer. But i won't be saying that when i'm on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck
Just got new wheels with regular tires...the ride is so much nicer. But i won't be saying that when i'm on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck
This issue is beaten to death, but I'm always willing to take a few more swipes at it. Let me try to ease your fears.
Own a cellphone? And like all of us, you have free roadside assistance from MINI. And/or AAA. So, call for a flatbed, get towed to a tire shop, and get your non-runflat tire repaired for $10. Or for free by some tire chains, such as Discount Tire. Yes, your trip was interrupted, but then you're on your way. Your tire got destroyed by a major blowout? No problemo, your local tire shop will almost surely have a compatible replacement in stock. Same road hazard would have shredded your runflat too, so the only difference here is the cost of the replacement - way higher for the runflat, and likely not in stock. You're stuck. Not a catastrophic blowout, so on a runflat you could conveniently limp to a tire shop without having to stop? Great, until you get to the tire shop, and find out that they don't want to repair your tire, don't have a replacement in stock, if they do it's astronomically priced, or.. whoops, you need a replacement anyways, because driving on a "flat" runflat basically renders it unrepairable.
I can see some advantages for going runflat. Commute through a horrible part of town and don't want to have to stop for any reason? Maybe it's your wife and/or kids you want to have safe from this potential hazard? Or regularly commute across some vast desert with spotty cell coverage and triple-digit heat? Then MAYBE, runflats are for you. For the rest of us? The disadvantages that you suffer every minute behind the wheel (horrible ride quality & handling, high cost, poor wear characteristics) aren't worth the suffering. I've been driving 36 years and have never been stranded by a flat tire. Not once. My 20-year-old Scirocco had never had its spacesaver spare out of the boot in its entire life. Other punctures I've suffered have always been "slow leaks" that allowed me to drive safely to a tire shop for repair. I'll risk a slight inconvenience for the huge upgrade in driving joy that "real" tires provide.
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'10 MCS "Jethro". All PW, aero kit, carbon black lounge leather, anthracite h/l, Cream White c/l, convenience, cold weather, xenon, rear fogs, nav, h/k sound, white turns, H&R touring cup kit, BBS LM's (aka "Let's Motor"), Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2's. '07 Z4M Coupe, bone stock.
i just got a pretty good price (not publishing out of courtesy, but im no one special) from Adamsaltamini
I need to decide soon if i want these.
so, you have no regrets? NOTHING ELSE NEEDED?
(probably a dumb question, it has to be) Is the cup kit significantly better than just slapping on NM ENG Springs? --ive heard all good thingsabout them, and IMO the drop difference isnt that great
fyi - im fine with a little bumpyride here n there, as long as it feels strong compared to stock. is it stronger over bumps(and in general)? (while considering life other parts if any to be considered)
thnks, there arent many with this mod at all
chris
Last edited by blackedout; 04-07-2010 at 11:03 PM.
i just got a pretty good price (not publishing out of courtesy, but im no one special) from Adamsaltamini
I need to decide soon if i want these.
so, you have no regrets? NOTHING ELSE NEEDED?
Almost no regrets. The springs are a bit soft for a performance setup. The Konis are adjustable, the fronts from the top via the standard Koni twist-knob, making that adjustment super-easy. But the rears have to be disassembled to adjust them, which is pretty impractical, at least initially. The idea is to adjust them for wear later on, and they "should" be fine when new. But they're on the soft side IMHO. But one man's soft might be perfect to someone else, or too hard for someone else again. YMMV.
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'10 MCS "Jethro". All PW, aero kit, carbon black lounge leather, anthracite h/l, Cream White c/l, convenience, cold weather, xenon, rear fogs, nav, h/k sound, white turns, H&R touring cup kit, BBS LM's (aka "Let's Motor"), Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2's. '07 Z4M Coupe, bone stock.
On the camber plates... They'd be nice to have and can be especially helpful in getting the car super low. Personally, I'm holding out for some H-sports for the R56. But generally, I think they're a wonderful idea even for street.
I understand the backs are factory adjustable, and i am ordering h & r cup kit tomorrow
what leads you to say this? tire wear, blabla, etc
Almost no regrets. The springs are a bit soft for a performance setup. The Konis are adjustable, the fronts from the top via the standard Koni twist-knob, making that adjustment super-easy. But the rears have to be disassembled to adjust them, which is pretty impractical, at least initially. The idea is to adjust them for wear later on, and they "should" be fine when new. But they're on the soft side IMHO. But one man's soft might be perfect to someone else, or too hard for someone else again. YMMV.
\i know ive read it numerous times, but its not in this thread
how many turns did you prefer? fronts 1/2, rears 1/4 and full soft?
