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NM springs don't lower your car much so the additional camber associated with the drop will be very minimal. It may even be minimal enough that you are able to adjust it with the limited amount of camber adjustments on the stock control arms.
What about the H+Rs? I have just ordered those for mine and was thinking about some control arms. I was talking to a friend who said that I should just let out some tire pressure in the rear and it would wear more evenly and handle better. Any truth to that?
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2009 R56 PW/PW "Jeremy"...6 Speed, Sport, Cold, Hi-Fi, Piano Black, Stubby Antenna, Alta Intake, Alta Hot Side Boost Tube, Functional hood Scoop, Alta Exhaust, Alta Rear Endlinks, Scangauge II, Cooper Side Scuttles, 22mm Alta Rear Sway Bar, KW Variant 1 Coilovers, CravenSpeed Adjustable Short Shifter, NM-Engineering Torque Arm Insert, S.P.E.C. Stage 2.5 Clutch and Pressure Plate.
I installed m7 coilovers on my R56 S and found them too harsh - wife wouldn't ride in my car. So I changed to the NM RS alpha springs and love them. Nice drop, great ride, better turn in. I knocked off the locating pin on the front OEM camber plates and pushed them in as far as they would go. Gets me close to 2 degrees up forward. However, the drop caused me to get about 3 degrees back aft. So I put on the TSW control arms and was able to adjust the rear camber to exactly what I wanted. They are rock solid, easy to install (need to bend some heat shield out and back a bit), look great, and give me control on rear camber.
Go for the control arms and I heartily recommend the TSW set.
Greg
__________________ Chili: '08 MCS CR/W; Alta: Cat-back, FMIC, 19mm sway bar, adjustable end links; DoS: Cold-Air Intake; m7: Ram Hood Scoop, STD's; Koni: FSD's; NM Engr: RS-alpha springs, hot-side and cold-side turbo pipe, engine torque arm insets; WMW: Turbo heat wrap; TSW: Lower rear control arms; Rota 16 x 7 RB's wrapped in Conti Extreme Contact DW's; Misc: things to make it look nice.
What about the H+Rs? I have just ordered those for mine and was thinking about some control arms. I was talking to a friend who said that I should just let out some tire pressure in the rear and it would wear more evenly and handle better. Any truth to that?
I've been riding on H&Rs for a while with the stock control arms. Last time I rotated the tires the rear didn't show any signs of abnormal wear. You only need the aftermarket rear control arms when you are lowering your car A LOT.
Anytime you lower a MINI you need rear control arms. The stock adjustment isn't enough. So getting rear control arms will allow you to get your alignment back into spec and save tire wear. Otherwise you end up wearing your tires and then buying tires and control arms later. Even if you don't think you need them for tire wear, wouldn't you want them to adjust the camber to maximize your handling.
I highly recommend the Hsport rear control arms, we've been using them for years and never had one problem with them.
I'd be interested in seeing some kind of data on how much effect a measly .5-1 degree change in camber has on tire wear. I highly doubt it's very detrimental...maybe you'd get 98% of life out of them instead of 100%. I would never say you absolutely "need" them when lowering your car on springs. They're nice to have, but hardly a necessity.
I've driven slammed MINI's for years now and never adjusted rear camber (by choice) and never had a problem with tire wear.
You are correct that most of the time it's the toe that eats up the tires. But I just lowered a car on Thurs a 1/2 inch and with the stock arms the least amount of camber we could get was 1.8neg. Now when the suspension travels it will be even more. Not good, becuase as camber changes it effects the toe. And since the camber effects the toe with the stock arms you sometimes can't get the toe straight. There isn't much adjustment in the toe. So getting the control arms will allow you the bring that camber number down and set the toe. And if you ever need more toe adjustment you can add the upper arms, but 99% of people don't need that.
I am lowered about 2.5" in the rear on h&r coilovers. From my experiene control arms are much more important for handling then they are for tire wear. I have been at my current height with no control arms for about a year. I haven't experienced any significantly uneven tire wear, but id do experience some exrteme oversteer when I'm driving at the limit.
You are correct that most of the time it's the toe that eats up the tires. But I just lowered a car on Thurs a 1/2 inch and with the stock arms the least amount of camber we could get was 1.8neg. Now when the suspension travels it will be even more. Not good, becuase as camber changes it effects the toe. And since the camber effects the toe with the stock arms you sometimes can't get the toe straight. There isn't much adjustment in the toe. So getting the control arms will allow you the bring that camber number down and set the toe. And if you ever need more toe adjustment you can add the upper arms, but 99% of people don't need that.
This is for the rear, correct? What about the front?
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Robin Casady Bombadil: 2007 MINI Cooper S, R56, Pure Silver, LSD, Wood Shift Knob, Rota Slipstream 16x7, NAV, HIFI...
This is for the rear, correct? What about the front?
Yah, he was discussing the rear.
Front camber isn't effected by lowering. Front toe is corrected quite easily (with stock parts) at an alignment shop and should be done after lowering.
You really shouldn't adjust rear toe with the control arms as it sends the camber and toe curves all out of whack through the range of travel. There should be room to adjust it at the trailing arm instead.
The camber gain at the rear is larger than the front, so when lowering, the rear camber is too high. Thus the static neg camber that you should run on the MINI should be higher at the front than the rear. Having 2deg rear and 1deg front is hardly optimal. You should aim for 1.5-2.5deg front and 1-1.8deg rear.
This is because mid-corner, as the suspension deflects, the front macpherson setup doesn't gain as much camber as the rear's multi-link axle.
I also agree with not modifying the rear toe with the control arms. Not a good idea.
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Factory built 08/08 MINI JCW: JCW Aerokit, M7 C-Wing, Bilstein PSS10, Vorshlag camber plates, RennSport Racing Rear Upper and Lower Control Arms, Howerton Engineering HFS-3 w/ Race Tank, Whiteline 20mm RSB, RMW Tune, Dunlop Direzza Star Spec Z1, DoS CAI, Evolve FMIC, BSH OCC + Dual Boost Port, NM SSK, etalj-spec torque arm ;), Goodridge SS Brake Lines, Endless RF-650 fluid, Carbotech XP12s, ALTA PSRS, Powergrid adjustable endlinks, Challenge Decals
