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Wow I just ordered 22mm bar, rear endlinks and control arms for 350 shipped! Jump on it guys!
Is there any reason why I wouldn't want to upgrade the suspension? Will it wear other suspension parts faster?
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Ordered 9/4/2009--Production Finished 9/17/2009--Shipped 9/25/2009--At Port Hueneme 10/16/2009--Delivered 10/26/2009
2010 MCSm Midnight Black Color all around, Bridge Spoke, DTC, Xenon headlamps, checkered carbon black/black, Comfort Access, Leather Sport Wheel w/ Multifuction, Piano Black interior, Bluetooth and USB/iPod adapter
I have no good reason why I ordered the endlinks and the control arms other than it the OEM looks flimpsy. But the swaybar I wanted for sure. But the 50% off made my decision easier. Besides, the swaybar is connected to the other parts so might as well do it all at once.
Before you get too enamored with the 50% off, check out this thread.
I have a pair of Alta's control arms, but haven't installed them yet. Wanted more camber adjustment in the rear.
I also have an H-Sport rear anti-sway bar, but think it might have been a mistake. Increasing the stiffness of the rear sway bar reduces rear traction and can cause oversteer. Unless you are a very exerienced driver, this can be a problem on the street.
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Robin Casady Bombadil: 2007 MINI Cooper S, R56, Pure Silver, LSD, Wood Shift Knob, Rota Slipstream 16x7, NAV, HIFI...
Before you get too enamored with the 50% off, check out this thread.
I have a pair of Alta's control arms, but haven't installed them yet. Wanted more camber adjustment in the rear.
I also have an H-Sport rear anti-sway bar, but think it might have been a mistake. Increasing the stiffness of the rear sway bar reduces rear traction and can cause oversteer. Unless you are a very exerienced driver, this can be a problem on the street.
Thanks for the advice- could you be more specific regarding your rear sway bar? Does it make you go on 3 wheels? How thick is it? Is it hollow/solid? I guess I don't understand what the point would be if it reduces traction.
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Ordered 9/4/2009--Production Finished 9/17/2009--Shipped 9/25/2009--At Port Hueneme 10/16/2009--Delivered 10/26/2009
2010 MCSm Midnight Black Color all around, Bridge Spoke, DTC, Xenon headlamps, checkered carbon black/black, Comfort Access, Leather Sport Wheel w/ Multifuction, Piano Black interior, Bluetooth and USB/iPod adapter
Thanks for the advice- could you be more specific regarding your rear sway bar? Does it make you go on 3 wheels? How thick is it? Is it hollow/solid? I guess I don't understand what the point would be if it reduces traction.
Instead of body roll, a stiff sway bar tends to lift the inside wheel. That reduces traction on that wheel. One of the threads on sway bars had a link to a good explanation of exactly how a sway bar affects handling. You might be able to find something through Google.
The H-Sport bar that I have is 19mm and less aggressive than the 22mm you are looking at. I think 22mm is way too much for street.
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Robin Casady Bombadil: 2007 MINI Cooper S, R56, Pure Silver, LSD, Wood Shift Knob, Rota Slipstream 16x7, NAV, HIFI...
Last edited by Robin Casady; 10-13-2009 at 03:07 PM.
Reason: Correction: lifts the inside, not outside wheel.
A 22 mm rear sway bar, in my opinion, is also too much for track use as well. Even at the softest setting, the car seems to lift the inside rear wheel off the ground. In some hard turns, it can lift 6 inches or more off the ground. I would prefer to have better corner balance with all four tires shouldering some of the cornering load. I may go back to a 19 mm next season.
Instead of body roll, a stiff sway bar tends to lift the outside wheel. That reduces traction on that wheel. One of the threads on sway bars had a link to a good explanation of exactly how a sway bar affects handling. You might be able to find something through Google.
The H-Sport bar that I have is 19mm and less aggressive than the 22mm you are looking at. I think 22mm is way too much for street.
I agree with Robin on one thing - Match your driving style to your suspension. One correction though the weight transfer to the front causes the inner rear wheel to lift.
I have a NM 22mm sway bar which is set in the 2nd of NMs 5 (5 being the stiffest) Positions.
The back end can definitely step out on you in hard cornering and you need to know your limits & if you have a tendency to brake in corners forget it.
But with that said "man o man" the limits changed, my mini hunkers down and is flat in the corners. I love it - probably my most fun performance mod.
You guys scared me so I changed my order to the 19mm since my car will never hit the track...and I cancelled the control arms....since most people said it causes squeaks...Kept the endlinks though since it's the cheapest....do endlinks do anything? I figure the sway bar is connected by the endlinks...so might as well do it.
I have the 22mm sway bar, H&R RSS Coliovers, Alta control arms and end links and I practive trying to oversteer. Been to several auto cross races and took Skip Barber Performance Car Racing classes and from my experience, you still have to push the car pretty hard to get it to oversteer. I think the 22mm will give you better cornering balance. Never once have I worried about doing a tail spin.
I agree with Robin on one thing - Match your driving style to your suspension. One correction though the weight transfer to the front causes the inner rear wheel to lift.
Oops, inside wheel. Not outside wheel. Right. Changed original post.
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Robin Casady Bombadil: 2007 MINI Cooper S, R56, Pure Silver, LSD, Wood Shift Knob, Rota Slipstream 16x7, NAV, HIFI...
You guys scared me so I changed my order to the 19mm since my car will never hit the track...and I cancelled the control arms....since most people said it causes squeaks...Kept the endlinks though since it's the cheapest....do endlinks do anything? I figure the sway bar is connected by the endlinks...so might as well do it.
Upgraded endlinks are a just in case part which is more useful for heavy duty use such as track or when you are lowering the car and want corner balance. Be careful with the endlinks, the bolts supplied can be a little shorter than the original and helm joints can be a little noiser (leading to some clunking in the rear).
I have the 22mm sway bar, H&R RSS Coliovers, Alta control arms and end links and I practive trying to oversteer. Been to several auto cross races and took Skip Barber Performance Car Racing classes and from my experience, you still have to push the car pretty hard to get it to oversteer. I think the 22mm will give you better cornering balance. Never once have I worried about doing a tail spin.
It may be the lowering of your car that helps you with more neutral balance and corner loading so the car will feel and handle very different from one at stock height.
With just a 22 mm bar and moderate settings for front camber (with plates), I can induce oversteer, rotation, four wheel drifts pretty much anytime at the limits with either TBO or TTO and a little steering. If the limits are reached suddenly, it can be a real handful so a little understeer bias is good.
It may be the lowering of your car that helps you with more neutral balance and corner loading so the car will feel and handle very different from one at stock height.
With just a 22 mm bar and moderate settings for front camber (with plates), I can induce oversteer, rotation, four wheel drifts pretty much anytime at the limits with either TBO or TTO and a little steering. If the limits are reached suddenly, it can be a real handful so a little understeer bias is good.
+1. I can get TBO or TTO with a 20mm rear bar on medium and stock suspension and alignment on the track.
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Factory built 08/08 MINI JCW: JCW Aerokit, M7 C-Wing, Bilstein PSS10, Vorshlag camber plates, RennSport Racing Rear Upper and Lower Control Arms, Howerton Engineering HFS-3 w/ Race Tank, Whiteline 20mm RSB, RMW Tune, Dunlop Direzza Star Spec Z1, DoS CAI, Evolve FMIC, BSH OCC + Dual Boost Port, NM SSK, etalj-spec torque arm ;), Goodridge SS Brake Lines, Endless RF-650 fluid, Carbotech XP12s, ALTA PSRS, Powergrid adjustable endlinks, Challenge Decals
Instead of body roll, a stiff sway bar tends to lift the inside wheel. That reduces traction on that wheel. One of the threads on sway bars had a link to a good explanation of exactly how a sway bar affects handling. You might be able to find something through Google.
The H-Sport bar that I have is 19mm and less aggressive than the 22mm you are looking at. I think 22mm is way too much for street.
I found these forums discussing this very issue, but with Subaru's.
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Ordered 9/4/2009--Production Finished 9/17/2009--Shipped 9/25/2009--At Port Hueneme 10/16/2009--Delivered 10/26/2009
2010 MCSm Midnight Black Color all around, Bridge Spoke, DTC, Xenon headlamps, checkered carbon black/black, Comfort Access, Leather Sport Wheel w/ Multifuction, Piano Black interior, Bluetooth and USB/iPod adapter
I just found it a bit weird that spinned found it hard to induce oversteer, maybe there are some geometry factors in play that we're not aware of....
We are just so glad to find someone else having a crazy time with their Mini on the track. This summer, Veggivet and I have been doing 60-80 mph 4 wheel slides and oversteers (TTO/TBO) all over the track; the slide, point and stomp technique. Of course, it is only after we have lots all grip in our tires, about 15-18 minutes thru a track session. Not to mention even more fun in the rain.
Oops, inside wheel. Not outside wheel. Right. Changed original post.
You may have gotten your outside wheel off the ground with that swaybar too as I recall . Seriously a 19 mm bar middle setting is probably plenty for chumps like us. I doubt you need end links or control arms. I paid $200 for my bar, and $100 to install it. Makes a difference but I've never had the rear end break loose yet.
__________________ April 07:MCS SS/B/Tuscan Beige/Cream colorline interior/Manual/Conv Pkg/Premium Pkg/17" Flame Spoke/LSD/Chrome Line/English Oak/Xenon/HiFi/Anthracite Headliner. African Blackwood/Amboyna burl inlay shift knob and ebrake handle by Robin Casady (see my gallery) 19mm H-sport rear asb, Bridgestone Potenza G019 Grid non-RF tires. HTC Incredible phone.
Last edited by TheBigNewt; 10-17-2009 at 03:15 PM.
not at all....
. Seriously a 19 mm bar middle setting is probably plenty for chumps like us. I doubt you need end links or control arms. I paid $200 for my bar, and $100 to install it. Makes a difference but I've never had the rear end break loose yet.
April 07:MCS SS/B/Tuscan Beige/Cream colorline interior/Manual/Conv Pkg/Premium Pkg/17" Flame Spoke/LSD/Chrome Line/English Oak/Xenon/HiFi/Anthracite Headliner. African Blackwood/Amboyna burl inlay shift knob and ebrake handle by Robin Casady (see my gallery) 19mm H-sport rear asb, Bridgestone Potenza G019 Grid non-RF tires. HTC Incredible phone.
