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I go the Alta 22mm rear sway bar which is a bit much for my uses, but I like to go hard around corners and stuff so I got it. Instructions said that you just unbolt some stuff, move the subframe and switch it out. Looked harder than most things but nothing I couldn't handle with an extra set of hands.
I tried to do it today and broke a ratchet on a bolt that was torqued passed what a very decent wrench was capable of. I think took it over to BMW/MINI at Habberstad (After buying a new ratchet and after not using any of the $20 in hardware I got).
They said about an hour at $125 per hour which didn't make me happy but I wanted it on. 15 minutes later I was told it would be at least 2 hours as they needed to remove my exhaust as well.
Alta's instructions always leave me wondering for at least a few minutes every install (maybe it's me), but this is retarded. How is something you need power tools, a dropped subframe and a removed exhaust 2 stars out of 4. Now what, I'm out shipping both ways if I want to return it or $250-$300 to install it properly? That seems hardly fair. I guess I should have done more research into it.
I do want the part and I would like it on the car. Does anyone have an recommendations that wont cost me $200+ on Long Island? I got a few places to call but where did you guys get yours done and how much did it cost you? I assume only a few of you did it yourself.
Note: this is the second piece I bought from Alta that the instructions said was far easier than what it was. If it needs professional installation more often than not and power tools it should not be 2* and it should be marked somewhere.
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2009 R56 PW/PW "Jeremy"...6 Speed, Sport, Cold, Hi-Fi, Piano Black, Stubby Antenna, Alta Intake, Alta Hot Side Boost Tube, Functional hood Scoop, Alta Exhaust, Alta Rear Endlinks, Scangauge II, Cooper Side Scuttles, 22mm Alta Rear Sway Bar, KW Variant 1 Coilovers, CravenSpeed Adjustable Short Shifter, NM-Engineering Torque Arm Insert, S.P.E.C. Stage 2.5 Clutch and Pressure Plate.
we have installed two rear bars so far. Not easy, but far from difficult. Two people sure make it easier as do a good set of jack stands and tools.
As for ALTA, I've never had an issue installing anything they sell. We installed their intakes in less than 40 minutes and the son did his exhaust solo injust more than an hour start to finish.
Personally, I'd steer clear of the stealerships for mods like this. If there isn't a good MINI shop nearby, check for a BMW or other euro shop.
Good luck!
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2009 Laser Blue/Black Clubman S. Premium/Cold Weather/Convenience/Sport/
LSD/Sunroof/Alta CAI/Elbrus 104 wheels/yokohama S drive/Eibach Pro Kit springs/ ALTA 19mm adjustable rear sway bar/ ALTA frt & rear end links/ ALTA cat back exhaust/ Hotchkis rear lower control arms.
Well I don't have any power tools so I'm stuck between paying a good shop at least $150 or returning it and spending the cash on something else. On the other side though, I've looked forward to this mod more than any others before. I just like the idea of the thing handling so well.
On the subject, how would I find out if there are any MINI shops on LI or Queens area.
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2009 R56 PW/PW "Jeremy"...6 Speed, Sport, Cold, Hi-Fi, Piano Black, Stubby Antenna, Alta Intake, Alta Hot Side Boost Tube, Functional hood Scoop, Alta Exhaust, Alta Rear Endlinks, Scangauge II, Cooper Side Scuttles, 22mm Alta Rear Sway Bar, KW Variant 1 Coilovers, CravenSpeed Adjustable Short Shifter, NM-Engineering Torque Arm Insert, S.P.E.C. Stage 2.5 Clutch and Pressure Plate.
I installed my sway bar and it was not difficult, but I did not have any stuborn bolts.
Really? All of mine were that way. Guy at BMW said I would need power tools.
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2009 R56 PW/PW "Jeremy"...6 Speed, Sport, Cold, Hi-Fi, Piano Black, Stubby Antenna, Alta Intake, Alta Hot Side Boost Tube, Functional hood Scoop, Alta Exhaust, Alta Rear Endlinks, Scangauge II, Cooper Side Scuttles, 22mm Alta Rear Sway Bar, KW Variant 1 Coilovers, CravenSpeed Adjustable Short Shifter, NM-Engineering Torque Arm Insert, S.P.E.C. Stage 2.5 Clutch and Pressure Plate.
Really? All of mine were that way. Guy at BMW said I would need power tools.
No, just long extension and a 18" breaker bar. Perhaps you should try soaking the bolts with penatrating oil. I think if your extension is long enough to clear all obstructions and add cheater bar to your breaker bar (I would not use a ratchet to break difficult large bolts) and you should be able to break it loose.
I don't have tools like that, not really at all. I'm a kid lol and my dad has lost most every tool he's ever owned. I don't even know what a breaker bar is. I'm going to let a professional do it because now I'm scared to break something or not be able to get it on tight enough.
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2009 R56 PW/PW "Jeremy"...6 Speed, Sport, Cold, Hi-Fi, Piano Black, Stubby Antenna, Alta Intake, Alta Hot Side Boost Tube, Functional hood Scoop, Alta Exhaust, Alta Rear Endlinks, Scangauge II, Cooper Side Scuttles, 22mm Alta Rear Sway Bar, KW Variant 1 Coilovers, CravenSpeed Adjustable Short Shifter, NM-Engineering Torque Arm Insert, S.P.E.C. Stage 2.5 Clutch and Pressure Plate.
However, I had my 19mm rear sway bar installed by a local Brit mechanic that was recommended by folk in the NorCal MINIs cludb. IIRC, it cost about $300 to install the bar and have all break pads replaced (I supplied the pads).
That said, I now think that a rear sway bar may not be the best first mod to the suspension. The main effect is oversteer. You might want to send it back, or hang it in your garage until you've done other things.
Adjustable lower rear control arms and front camber plates might be a better choice. I'm going to attempt to install the Alta control arms myself. It doesn't look that hard (famous last words...). Or, as they say on Top Gear, "How hard can it be?"
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Robin Casady Bombadil: 2007 MINI Cooper S, R56, Pure Silver, LSD, Wood Shift Knob, Rota Slipstream 16x7, NAV, HIFI...
I now think that a rear sway bar may not be the best first mod to the suspension. The main effect is oversteer.
The main reason for a stiffer rear sway is to reduce the factory understeer. It will also reduce leaning on turns. I don't know about 2nd gen, but for the 1st gen a rear sway bar is indeed what everybody seems to recommend as the very first suspension mod.
That said, I now think that a rear sway bar may not be the best first mod to the suspension. The main effect is oversteer. You might want to send it back, or hang it in your garage until you've done other things.
I hear it's like the most noticeable upgrade you can do. I would think that would be a good place to start no? Then get other things to fine tune it...
Why would I want to wait?
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2009 R56 PW/PW "Jeremy"...6 Speed, Sport, Cold, Hi-Fi, Piano Black, Stubby Antenna, Alta Intake, Alta Hot Side Boost Tube, Functional hood Scoop, Alta Exhaust, Alta Rear Endlinks, Scangauge II, Cooper Side Scuttles, 22mm Alta Rear Sway Bar, KW Variant 1 Coilovers, CravenSpeed Adjustable Short Shifter, NM-Engineering Torque Arm Insert, S.P.E.C. Stage 2.5 Clutch and Pressure Plate.
Installing the sway bar is more work than it seems initially. If you have a lift, it will make the job much easier.
You do not have to remove the exhaust but have to unhook the two rear rubber mounts and support the exhaust. Otherwise you may break it at one of the joints.
You should use liquid wrench or rost off in addition to the breaker bar to get the bolts off. You have to drop the subframe before you can get to the sway bar bracket bolts. Remember to liberally lube the polyurethane bushings otherwise they will squeek and drive you nuts. You cannot easily relube them unless you drop the subframe again.
Please take a look at the nm-eng instructions as they are the best ones I have found out there and the one I used to install my sway bar. http://nm-eng.com/images/258856_ins.pdf
Robin, you also have to drop the subframe in order to get to the control arm bolts at the frame end. The only benefits of the rear control arms are more rear camber and camber adjustability. However, adjusting camber also adjusts toe so be aware of that. I have the adjustable rear control arms and ended up never adjusting them once I set camber and toe to stock settings.
I hear it's like the most noticeable upgrade you can do. I would think that would be a good place to start no? Then get other things to fine tune it...
Why would I want to wait?
What do you want to do? Do you want to have a more neutral handling?
Please take a look at the nm-eng instructions as they are the best ones I have found out there and the one I used to install my sway bar. http://nm-eng.com/images/258856_ins.pdf
The main reason for a stiffer rear sway is to reduce the factory understeer. It will also reduce leaning on turns. I don't know about 2nd gen, but for the 1st gen a rear sway bar is indeed what everybody seems to recommend as the very first suspension mod.
I don't think the understeer on the R56 is as pronounced as the 1st Gen. I think a 22mm bar is massive overkill and will probably give it significant oversteer. I may be wrong, but the middle setting on a 19mm H-Sport sway bar seemed to be too much for my MCS. To reduce roll, I think the rear bar should be matched to a front bar.
If you are doing AutoX and want to make it easier to get the rear end to swing around, then a rear bar alone would be helpful. For street driving by less that track trained drivers, I'm not sure it is a good idea.
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Robin Casady Bombadil: 2007 MINI Cooper S, R56, Pure Silver, LSD, Wood Shift Knob, Rota Slipstream 16x7, NAV, HIFI...
What do you want to do? Do you want to have a more neutral handling?
Really more to reduce body roll and when I do finally get around to track/Autocross I think it would be nice to have it already in there to change a setting rather than having to install it once i've had it on the track and realize I need one.
At the moment I'm trying to just do some of the more generic mods and make the car just enough better than stock that I'll enjoy driving it that much more. In truth I probably should have gone with a 19mm bar, but on the softest setting the 22mm should be fine. I would rather have the 22mm on the softest setting and change it once I get it on the track or something. Recommended by the BMW mechanic at Habberstad as well as quite a few people when I was looking into modding originally. It was on my list of stuff to do to it early on.
I got the intake, hot side boost tube, and stubby first.
Then went with the Scangauge and shift knob.
Now I'm up to the sway bar.
Next will be spacers and lowering, then an exhaust. I can only do as much as my income allows, but I'm enjoying every minute of seeing how the car improves and changes with different parts.
I'm learning a lot about how stuff works through that and then get to experience that every day on my 60 mile round trip to and from school.
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2009 R56 PW/PW "Jeremy"...6 Speed, Sport, Cold, Hi-Fi, Piano Black, Stubby Antenna, Alta Intake, Alta Hot Side Boost Tube, Functional hood Scoop, Alta Exhaust, Alta Rear Endlinks, Scangauge II, Cooper Side Scuttles, 22mm Alta Rear Sway Bar, KW Variant 1 Coilovers, CravenSpeed Adjustable Short Shifter, NM-Engineering Torque Arm Insert, S.P.E.C. Stage 2.5 Clutch and Pressure Plate.
Please take a look at the nm-eng instructions as they are the best ones I have found out there and the one I used to install my sway bar. http://nm-eng.com/images/258856_ins.pdf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Casady
I don't think the understeer on the R56 is as pronounced as the 1st Gen. I think a 22mm bar is massive overkill and will probably give it significant oversteer. I may be wrong, but the middle setting on a 19mm H-Sport sway bar seemed to be too much for my MCS.
Robin: thanks for the timely advice: my R56 goes into the shop Monday at 8am to have its new H-Sport 19mm rear sway bar installed ...
slinger688: thanks for the PDF: my installer was looking for tips on R56 installs; he's done several R53s but not a R56 yet
BASIL: 2007 MCS BRG/B 6sp: various electronic and suspension enhancements, Whalen SM, and DoS CAI; less chrome, more black, WAYBETTER speakers, and tow hitch! ... Chicago MINI Motoring Club ... Milwaukee MINIs ... StLouis MINI Club ... High Plains Motoring Society
A breaker bar and cheater extension are cheap and invaluable tools. Get one good breaker bar thats half inch drive and 24" inches long ($25) and a cheater extension about 18"-24" (a $3 piece of pipe that fits over the end of the breaker). Things stop being stuck after that.
I have the Alta 19mm bar. I was going to do it myself, but figured that rolling around in the driveway for two hours wouldn't be much fun. I took it to my local mechanic and they did it in under an hour for $75. It was a smart move. You have to drop the subframe--not difficult but it would have been a bear without a lift. FYI, I keep mine on the middle setting on the street, but move it to stiff on the track.
Paid a friend of mine $150 to do it. He probably would have done it for free but he did an awesome job and even took it out on all three settings before choosing the middle setting and I think it's perfect. 22mm definitely isn't overkill and even if it is it was $10 more than a 19mm and will be worlds better on the track once it gets there, im sure.
Btw he did have to drop the exhaust down as well as the subframe to get it in right, but I'd rather give a hard working father of four a few days worth of groceries than buy the execs at BMW a new cappuccino machine.
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2009 R56 PW/PW "Jeremy"...6 Speed, Sport, Cold, Hi-Fi, Piano Black, Stubby Antenna, Alta Intake, Alta Hot Side Boost Tube, Functional hood Scoop, Alta Exhaust, Alta Rear Endlinks, Scangauge II, Cooper Side Scuttles, 22mm Alta Rear Sway Bar, KW Variant 1 Coilovers, CravenSpeed Adjustable Short Shifter, NM-Engineering Torque Arm Insert, S.P.E.C. Stage 2.5 Clutch and Pressure Plate.
Paid a friend of mine $150 to do it. He probably would have done it for free but he did an awesome job and even took it out on all three settings before choosing the middle setting and I think it's perfect. 22mm definitely isn't overkill and even if it is it was $10 more than a 19mm and will be worlds better on the track once it gets there, im sure.
Btw he did have to drop the exhaust down as well as the subframe to get it in right, but I'd rather give a hard working father of four a few days worth of groceries than buy the execs at BMW a new cappuccino machine.
Glad you got it installed and it is working well for you!
Did you get to watch and learn?
Last edited by ron-s mini; 09-13-2009 at 04:58 PM.
Reason: grammar
I wanted to help him but I was at work and he just came by and grabbed my car. I wanted it done when he wanted to do it. He was doing me the favor.
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2009 R56 PW/PW "Jeremy"...6 Speed, Sport, Cold, Hi-Fi, Piano Black, Stubby Antenna, Alta Intake, Alta Hot Side Boost Tube, Functional hood Scoop, Alta Exhaust, Alta Rear Endlinks, Scangauge II, Cooper Side Scuttles, 22mm Alta Rear Sway Bar, KW Variant 1 Coilovers, CravenSpeed Adjustable Short Shifter, NM-Engineering Torque Arm Insert, S.P.E.C. Stage 2.5 Clutch and Pressure Plate.
Really more to reduce body roll and when I do finally get around to track/Autocross I think it would be nice to have it already in there to change a setting rather than having to install it once i've had it on the track and realize I need one.
At the moment I'm trying to just do some of the more generic mods and make the car just enough better than stock that I'll enjoy driving it that much more. In truth I probably should have gone with a 19mm bar, but on the softest setting the 22mm should be fine. I would rather have the 22mm on the softest setting and change it once I get it on the track or something.
The rear sway bar not only reduces roll but also introduces oversteer. A 22 mm can introduce quite a lot of oversteer and if you are not careful, the back can step out on you.
I would highly recommend that you get on the track and start driving. You seem to have enough mods already. You may feel very different about the mods after learning what the parts do at the limits of the car (and your driving).
I just finished having a pro who's done several R53 rear sway bars do his first R56 install, a 19mm H-Sport bar ... some notes:
-- if a shop quotes you "5.9 hours labor": WRONG. You now know he's never done a R56 swaybar, and the labor book he's reading is telling him he has to drop the axle, which is not true.
-- my shop did it in 100 minutes, per the H-Sport instructions here: get it up on a lift and remove (in order) the rear wheels, the spring/shock assemblies, the swaybar brackets, and the subframe hardware; pull the old bar, slide in the new bar and brackets, add grease, and reverse the disassembly.
-- it's a LOT easier to do on a lift than on jackstands, and he did not need to mess with the muffler, brakelines, ABS wires, et cetera, as mentioned in other install sheets.
The only install diff between my R56 and the R53s was the shock assemblies ... and he still kept the job to his two-hour quote.
I went with the center stiffness setting. Happy car.
PS: afterward, think about realignment -- my rear camber changed significantly with the subframe detach/reattach.
BASIL: 2007 MCS BRG/B 6sp: various electronic and suspension enhancements, Whalen SM, and DoS CAI; less chrome, more black, WAYBETTER speakers, and tow hitch! ... Chicago MINI Motoring Club ... Milwaukee MINIs ... StLouis MINI Club ... High Plains Motoring Society
Last edited by basil49; 09-15-2009 at 02:50 PM.
Reason: added instructions PDF link
No, just long extension and a 18" breaker bar. Perhaps you should try soaking the bolts with penatrating oil. I think if your extension is long enough to clear all obstructions and add cheater bar to your breaker bar (I would not use a ratchet to break difficult large bolts) and you should be able to break it loose.
+1,000,000,000 on the penetrant. I swear by PB Blaster...If you dont have any yet in your arsenal....>GET SUM!!
