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My 2009 R56S with the dealer installed JCW suspension kit tells me that it needs about 1 degree of front camber but the stock mounts have only given me 0.6 and lost one locator pin in the process.
After doing a lot of reading in the forum's database I have some questions left unanswered.
What I look for in camber plates, fixed or adjustable, is:
- Aprx 1 degree of camber, no more than 1.25 max.
- Plates with OEM style rubber bushings as I don't want race car clutter.
- Plates that will not change the ride height.
- Plates that have adequate OEM spring to body panel clearance.
Thanks guys.
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2009 R56S, solid BRG, manual, JCW suspension and strut bar, Pirelli PZero, JCW air filter, IE fixed camber plates.
I've heard some horror stories about IE plates from a while back. Don't know the problems have been resolved or not. I just posted a question on a related thread and hopefully someone can clarify if they've fixed it.
I went ahead and got the Vorshlag plates from Outmotoring.com. They are more expensive but people aren't experiencing the issues that IE had with them.
__________________ mike roberts co-founder stlmini | formerly president, currently apathetic blue d3mon:78 austin mini | cash:07 MCS JCW
The issue was with the IE *adjustable* plates - which have since been redesigned - but they're not the ones you want because you say you want OEM style rubber bushings. Only the IE *fixed* plates have those. They are a very well executed design. But they WILL raise you about 1/8".
BTW - you'll want more than -1 deg of front camber. More like -1.75 to -2.0 is better for handling and tire wear for most folks - and that's what you get with the Ireland fixed plates.
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I'm Paul, The car is Blimey--- BlimeyCabrio's Blog--- 2006 MCSCa w/lotsa mods and Union Jacks
Ten-time Dragon Veteran - Occasional Trackrat - Extreme Twisty Addict - Rhymers Ferry Road Fanatic
I've heard some horror stories about IE plates from a while back. Don't know the problems have been resolved or not. I just posted a question on a related thread and hopefully someone can clarify if they've fixed it.
The issue was address way back when it happen and after 18 months and dozens of sets installed I have not had any customers with issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlimeyCabrio
The issue was with the IE *adjustable* plates - which have since been redesigned - but they're not the ones you want because you say you want OEM style rubber bushings. Only the IE *fixed* plates have those. They are a very well executed design. But they WILL raise you about 1/8".
BTW - you'll want more than -1 deg of front camber. More like -1.75 to -2.0 is better for handling and tire wear for most folks - and that's what you get with the Ireland fixed plates.
The fixed plates work very well for most daily drivers and the only time we encourage adjustables is for drivers really looking for track and or AutoX fine tuning. Funny thing is, most end up setting them near -1.75 and never touching them again.
I, too, have Ireland Engineering Fixed Camber plates. Bought them used. These plastes add about 1 degrees of negative camber to the front suspension. They are a great addition that really reveal themselves at the apex of a turn. Action at the apex is faster and more precise. MINI should send these automobiles from the factory with this type of camber plate.
Ride height is not changed.
Works very well with stock suspension (that is what I have still, but one day...)
There are black plastic caps that can be inserted in the top of the shock tower and you would never know these camber plates are installed. Heck, you can hardly tell without the plastic cap.
So it looks like the Fixed Irelands are the best way to go but the ride height issue is unclear.
billie_morini experienced no ride height change while BlimeyCabrio got 1/8 height increase and I wonder if this may be due to the plates starting out at +1/8" and settling down to 0 once the rubber insert settles after some driving.
I would not want any height increase up front as the car has a pleasant stance now that the JCW bits have settled down.
BTW how long does it take to install them -not including the alignment- and are there any tricky paths to follow?
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2009 R56S, solid BRG, manual, JCW suspension and strut bar, Pirelli PZero, JCW air filter, IE fixed camber plates.
It's 1/8"... which is very minor, most people never notice it, it's so small. But they *do* raise ride height by the thickness of the steel reinforcement plate on the IE plates (about 3mm). At least they do on the 1st gen cars. 2nd gen may be different - I haven't compared stack height of the IE plates with the 2nd gen OEM upper strut mount.
Mine were still about 1/8" higher AFTER settling.
Takes me about 1 to 1.5 hours to do camber plates now that I've done it a few times. Took me about 3 hours the first time. For the first gen cars, keith did an excellent diy for springs - camber plates require the same steps. 2nd gen is similar:
... they *do* raise ride height by the thickness of the steel reinforcement plate on the IE plates (about 3mm). At least they do on the 1st gen cars. 2nd gen may be different ...
Mine were still about 1/8" higher AFTER settling.
The difference between R53 and R56 may be the answer you think?
Interesting that the camber plate -which is also acting as the top mount, correct?- is retained by the same single bolt that holds the spring top plate. Or am I missing something here?
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2009 R56S, solid BRG, manual, JCW suspension and strut bar, Pirelli PZero, JCW air filter, IE fixed camber plates.
Last edited by KrautHammer; 06-25-2009 at 07:48 AM.
The ride height change amounts we are talking about are less than the ride height change you get when you replace your worn out tires with brand new tires.
If you don't notice the change when you change tires, you won't notice the change when you add camber plates.
Interesting that the camber plate -which is also acting as the top mount, correct?- is retained by the same single bolt that holds the spring top plate. Or am I missing something here?
You are right and it's the same setup on the OEM system. The Camber Plate replaces the OEM "top plate" and on the IE system you use the OEM top spring plate/cup/holder but others, like Vorshlags, do/may come with a custom spring plate/cup/holder too.
I was going to install the IE adjustables on my R56 when I put the TSW springs in but decided not too at the last minute since I'm probably getting a 2010 WRX this fall since they are finally coming with a 6 speed manual. First $100 takes them including freight.
i disagree with some of the people here saying you need a lot of camber... you really don't with the mini and most european cars because they naturally have a lot of CASTER, which when the wheel turns gives you camber naturally... what i suggest is a more "sedated" approach, i'm running -1.5 degrees negative camber all around, Vorshlag plates and custom coilovers wiht TSW rear lower control arms... i don't run as much static negative camber because of the amount of caster the MINI has... now, my car is a doulbe duty car, daily driver and track car, so that's one reason i run less camber, but obviously the amount of camber is kinda more up to the user... i have seen no wear problems with my set up at least. and the car still handles great... can outhandle my friend's suspension only modded STI 04, then again that could be due to my 225 tires on my wheels...
i'm just saying, personal opinion, that you really don't need a lot of static negative camber...
__________________ JP (the man) & Blue Bomber (the MINI)
LazerBlue R56 2007 What you see is whats installed... after all, with MINIs, "it ain't no 10 second race"... it's about bending the rules and ruling the bends!
Hmmm... I wouldn't consider -1.5deg "a little" and -1.75 to -2.0 "a lot"... the difference of half a degree (especially up front) is very little... now if folks were suggesting he run -3 or -4 deg of camber, that's A LOT - and too much for anything but maybe autocross... but I stand by -1.0deg being too little for spirited driving styles and your setup seems to reinforce that.
__________________
I'm Paul, The car is Blimey--- BlimeyCabrio's Blog--- 2006 MCSCa w/lotsa mods and Union Jacks
Ten-time Dragon Veteran - Occasional Trackrat - Extreme Twisty Addict - Rhymers Ferry Road Fanatic
Talked to Ireland yesterday and I am satisfied that the accurate height increase is 3/16". No big deal and I may end up grinding the top of the spring coil flat to maintain the current JCW suspension height.
The bearing-rubber bushing itself is the BMW Z4 unit with its 1.25 Camber mounted in Ireland's plate to fit the R56. Since my OE Camber is 0.3 I can probably wiggle a 1.25 - 1.50 final setting which is all that I am looking for in a street set up. dunphyj ^ is correct IMO.
Good news about the OE rubber to bearing configuration as one of my main concerns was noise.
Adjustables are not really for me as this car will see no more than an occasional track day and good alignment shops don't abound in my area.
The Irelands should be installed sometime next week and I can set about terrorizing innocent lifted truck drivers and assorted Miata folk with increased fervor.
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2009 R56S, solid BRG, manual, JCW suspension and strut bar, Pirelli PZero, JCW air filter, IE fixed camber plates.
Team Justacooper
JP (the man) & Blue Bomber (the MINI)
