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I just had the H-sport 22mm rear sway installed and i'm loving the improvement; but now i want MORE!!!! so are camber plates a wise next investment?
Matt
09 MCS
Yes. More negative front camber is great. I think camber plates make a larger handling improvement than a rear sway bar but the bar is easier to install. Also, tires make a big difference. After installing camber plates and increasing the negative camber you will probably want your bar at the softest setting (at least at first). Of course springs and shock are also important. It is all a combination that must be thought out to get a good match of parts that work well together.
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2006 MCS JCW GP #1405: Adj Front Camber Plates, 19mm Rear Sway Bar, MM Front Lower Brace, Milltek Cat-Back, TCE 13" Front/11.75" Rear BBK, 15mm Spacers, Wheel Studs, JCM Modified Intake, MM Filter, Gauges
I have the stock sport suspension so i'm not really looking to pay even more for shocks and springs, and tires are high up on my list....i have the all season tires right now. I have the sway bar on the softest right now and i love how the rear feels, so i'm looking for the tight feeling up front. Any issues with having the M7 strut brace and camber plates?
I had the same issue with my 2003 MCS. I added a rear bar and still needed the front to stick better. I added camber plates and it made a huge difference. On my 2006 MCS I added the camber plates first and I still have not added a larger rear bar because I have not found it is really needed on the GP.
Should be no problem with the M7 strut brace and camber plates.
If you do purchase camber plates you might want to find a brand that does not increase the ride height. Some brands increase the height about 3/16 of an inch. I selected Hotchkis (H-Sport) because they do not increase the ride height. The TSW plates look good but I do not know about their ride height.
If you are already on the rear bar on the softest setting you might find the rear bar to be too stiff with camber plates (set around -2 degrees) and causing more oversteer than you would like if you have to brake or lift throttle mid turn. You might want to try the new setup in a safety area to determine if the oversteer is fine for your driving style. If too much oversteer you can also sell your bar and find a used 19 or 20 mm bar.
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2006 MCS JCW GP #1405: Adj Front Camber Plates, 19mm Rear Sway Bar, MM Front Lower Brace, Milltek Cat-Back, TCE 13" Front/11.75" Rear BBK, 15mm Spacers, Wheel Studs, JCM Modified Intake, MM Filter, Gauges
If I could add.. strut tower bars do very very little to improve handling... most people wouldn't be able to notice a difference. I'd order the list, in order of how significant the impact would be:
1. Tires
2. Camber Plates
3. Shocks
Upgrading the front lower control arm bushings help with steering feel, which I think is worth mention too.
Thank you. I think i decided tires will be the next "to do" only i would probably get new rims with the tires and that causes a whole other issue of what is going to look good
And I caught lots of crap for suggesting that one do that before a rear bar! (Improve the geometry, then tune with bars etc).....
Good to see that the benefit for more front camber is better known and appreciated.
FWIW, even if you do tune out oversteer with just bars, you'll still eat up the front outside tire due to too little negative front camber and too little camber gain!
So, do camber plates add any noticeable harshness to the ride? It looks like you are replacing some rubber bits with solid bearings when you put in the plates. That's been my only hesitation.
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2008 MCSCm Sport, Premium w/ Auto A/C deleted
M7 brace, brake pulsar, just getting started!
(huge pile of MINI mod parts waiting for their time to shine, now in storage)
I just put H Sport Adjustable camber plates on my 04 S. With -1.8 camber on the front. The car handles great. I know many people like the rear bars as a fast addition for improved handling. I went with the Adjustable camber plates so the negative camber on the front can be set equal and reduce the mushroom problem many people have had. You really can not go wrong with the adjustable camber plates. One does get a bigger bang for the buck with the larger sway bars and the people who have the bars installed really do like them. But for a little more $ you can improve your cornering and reduce the mushroom issue. But than again I am far from being an expert, I just like to drive the Mini.
I notice only slightly more NVH with the H-Sport Camber Plates. I went with camber plates instead of the IE fixed plates for 4 reasons.
1. Adjustable. The stock camber on my car was off quite a bit from side to side so I can correct for that original manufacturing difference. I can also adjust a little more negative than the fixed plates provide. I like -2 degrees.
2. No ride height increase. I did not want to increase ride height. Even the IE fixed plates increase the height slightly.
3. Adds a thick plate to prevent strut mushrooming. However, I understand the IE fixed plate is a little thicker than stock so that might be enough.
4. Replaces the stock top rubber bushing with a steel bearing. The rubber bushing is prone to tear. However, I understand the IE fixed has better rubber so that might also solve the problem.
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2006 MCS JCW GP #1405: Adj Front Camber Plates, 19mm Rear Sway Bar, MM Front Lower Brace, Milltek Cat-Back, TCE 13" Front/11.75" Rear BBK, 15mm Spacers, Wheel Studs, JCM Modified Intake, MM Filter, Gauges
well, i have Vorshlag camber plates... i also have to think that technically speaking, you shouldn't need much more than springs, shocks, lower control arms and front camber plates... i think (seriously personal opinion) that sway bars should be there more for fine tuning rather than huge part... granted you can tell it works with a rear swaybar cuz of the MINI's setup, but yeah... obivously ur car, do what you like. but camber plates would probably do you well
i should instill a small word my friends said, don't mod just for the sake of modding... base it on need
__________________ JP (the man) & Blue Bomber (the MINI)
LazerBlue R56 2007 What you see is whats installed... after all, with MINIs, "it ain't no 10 second race"... it's about bending the rules and ruling the bends!
how much craap I've cought for advocating camber adjustment over massive rear bars. Seems that most of the people like the ease of tuning the suspension with the bars as opposed to fixing the geometry (as best you can) before tuning with spring rates and bar stifnesses.
I remember Dr O, back in 05 and 06. Swaybars were the be-all and end-all. People never found it curious that the R53s had virtually no camber up front and 1.5 on the rear. Camber plates were my all-time favourite mod in terms of bang-for-buck. Better than the rear swaybar even...
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Factory built 08/08 MINI JCW: JCW Aerokit, M7 C-Wing, Bilstein PSS10, Vorshlag camber plates, RennSport Racing Rear Upper and Lower Control Arms, Howerton Engineering HFS-3 w/ Race Tank, Whiteline 20mm RSB, RMW Tune, Dunlop Direzza Star Spec Z1, DoS CAI, Evolve FMIC, BSH OCC + Dual Boost Port, NM SSK, etalj-spec torque arm ;), Goodridge SS Brake Lines, Endless RF-650 fluid, Carbotech XP12s, ALTA PSRS, Powergrid adjustable endlinks, Challenge Decals
Agreed - camber plates rock. That said, for my driving style, there's no way I'd give up my swaybar, either. But I surely don't need as much bar with the camber corrected - quite happy with a 19mm H-sport on "medium".
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I'm Paul, The car is Blimey--- BlimeyCabrio's Blog--- 2006 MCSCa w/lotsa mods and Union Jacks
Ten-time Dragon Veteran - Occasional Trackrat - Extreme Twisty Addict - Rhymers Ferry Road Fanatic
I remember Dr O, back in 05 and 06. Swaybars were the be-all and end-all.
02, 03 and 04 but back then, I was a shy lurker.... But Helix camber plates were my very first mod, even before they were sold by Helix!
I think it would be a great favor to AutoXers all over for Mini to provide adjustable front camber (up to -2 degrees) so that the Mini would be a bit more competitive without the points hit from needed camber plates....
hehe but I wasn't around before 05.
I never really liked the idea of using a 22mm rear swaybar with stock front camber as many do. I much prefer the idea of a 19/20 mm rear bar with 1.5-2 deg of neg camber up front
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Factory built 08/08 MINI JCW: JCW Aerokit, M7 C-Wing, Bilstein PSS10, Vorshlag camber plates, RennSport Racing Rear Upper and Lower Control Arms, Howerton Engineering HFS-3 w/ Race Tank, Whiteline 20mm RSB, RMW Tune, Dunlop Direzza Star Spec Z1, DoS CAI, Evolve FMIC, BSH OCC + Dual Boost Port, NM SSK, etalj-spec torque arm ;), Goodridge SS Brake Lines, Endless RF-650 fluid, Carbotech XP12s, ALTA PSRS, Powergrid adjustable endlinks, Challenge Decals
The IE fixed plates...use an OEM style rubber bushing (the heavier-duty one from the Z4, actually).
I noticed today that my right side rubber bushing is cracked badly. I don't see mushrooming in the tower but it is hard to tell.
Rather than just going OEM again I want to install the IE Fixed plates but can't figure out if I have to remove the strut to install them or I can simply compress the spring and install the plate without removing the strut. It may be that I have to also disconnect the sway bar but I don't know.
Any insights would be greatly appreciated or a pointer to a How-To with pictures so I have an idea what I will be getting into.
You have to remove the strut assembly and compress the spring to replace the top plate. You will need a way to remove the top nut. There are special tools available but most people figured a way without the special tools. I use a air impact wrench. Some use a spark plug socket with a wrench on the hex part of the socket.
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2006 MCS JCW GP #1405: Adj Front Camber Plates, 19mm Rear Sway Bar, MM Front Lower Brace, Milltek Cat-Back, TCE 13" Front/11.75" Rear BBK, 15mm Spacers, Wheel Studs, JCM Modified Intake, MM Filter, Gauges
Correct. Replacing the upper strut mount with either a new OEM one or a camber plate is the same procedure - and requires removal of the strut. Which really isn't that hard. Same procedure as installing springs:
I made my own strut socket by cutting down a deep socket in the same shape. But I hardly ever use it - I use my air impact gun (on a low setting) to remove and re-tighten the top nut, and have had no issues.
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I'm Paul, The car is Blimey--- BlimeyCabrio's Blog--- 2006 MCSCa w/lotsa mods and Union Jacks
Ten-time Dragon Veteran - Occasional Trackrat - Extreme Twisty Addict - Rhymers Ferry Road Fanatic
1. what are the stock camber settings for r56?
2. do you only get/adjust camber plates for front not rear?
3. are control arms necessary? (not lowered)
1. Stock adjustment only allows for -.6 camber... And I think positive camber as well... But not much
2. Do to how the suspension is set up you should get camber plates up front and adjustable lower control arms for the rear... That's he u adjust camber in front.... Since the average camber plate does -3.0 camber u shouldget -3.6 on the mini... Rear adjustment just depends on how much adjustment the control arms allow.
3. Only if u want to adjust rear camber... I ran my texas speed werkz control arms for 3 months before my coilovers came
__________________ JP (the man) & Blue Bomber (the MINI)
LazerBlue R56 2007 What you see is whats installed... after all, with MINIs, "it ain't no 10 second race"... it's about bending the rules and ruling the bends!
for 1. i was trying to find out what the factory camber settings are (i believe -1 rear 0 front) probably not correct . . . i do understand that they are tuned for understeer
are you saying i can get -0.6 on stock camber plates? how is this done??
for 3. if you only got front camber plates and nothing else would it cause any problems? since the rear is already negative . . .
JP (the man) & Blue Bomber (the MINI)
but back then, I was a shy lurker.... But Helix camber plates were my very first mod, even before they were sold by Helix!
