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Hey guys, for some reason today I all of a sudden started getting some extreme noise from my rear end (the car's, not MY rear end!). Here's the full story:
- Bought a 2yr old HSport 22mm rear sway bar and installed it on the medium setting on my 2008 MC, everything else stock.
- After a couple days, it started making a little bit of noise. Put additional lube in the bushings and used the opportunity to put it to the tightest setting.
- For about 2-3 weeks or so, it was fine. No noise.
- Last couple days, it started making sound from the back end on occasion, typically when I started moving from a full stop.
- Today, all of a sudden, it got really noisy. Whenever I go over a bump. Always when I start moving from a complete stop. And even when I'm just cruising on the road and go over slight bumps.
SO... my question is, what could it possibly be? My friend, who installed the bar for me, says that the larger bar is touching parts of the subframe and that's what's making the sound. But why would it just start now? Could it be that it's rubbing against other parts of the car? If so, how can I fix this? Or could it be something as simple as lack of lube in the bushings?
Damn, that sound is ultra annoying - any help is appreciated!!
Chances are it is one of your sway bar end links, make sure both ends of both links are tight. I run the H Sports rear bar without any rubbing or knocking from the rear.
Chances are it is one of your sway bar end links, make sure both ends of both links are tight. I run the H Sports rear bar without any rubbing or knocking from the rear.
Yep, I can say with 100% certainty that the end links are very, very tight. Makes me more comfortable to hear you have no issues with yours. Did you do the install yourself or watch it being done? Does the bar not touch any parts of the subframe at all?
Could it be that something else was not tight? I know the instructions ask you to remove at least one of the rear coils/shocks. That bar also requires you losses the rear subframe. I bet one of those items have come loose.
I just put this bar on my Clubman so it's fresh in my mind. Post up if you have questions about what to tighten.
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"Everyday it feels like you're 8 years old, and for the first time you're tall enough to ride the GoCarts." - me motoringshirts - mods & specs - gallery - blog - work
there's a lot of bolts that are very important back there. if you don't tighten them up to stock torque, you'll find yourself in trouble.
top of the shock and/or subframe could be loose.
maybe the end link because that's sorta complicated to tighten, since you've gotta go in with an allen and a box wrench to get it tight.
As far as everything being, I'm 100% certain of that. The friend that installed it is a pro and when we changed it to the tightest setting, he went over everything and made sure it all was all supertight. We ended up getting it in without taking off the shock. So if anything, it could only be the subframe, bushings or arm. I'm thinking of calling HSport and getting new bushings and trying that out, since the used ones looked fairly worn and we seemed to grease them up enough. But I dunno.
As long as everything was tightened, then I guess you can rule that out. I just remember from when I did mine, the subframe bolts need to be torqued like hell. I think it was about the same if not more then the lug nuts, and you don't have the ability to throw your weight into the torque wrench when you're lying on your back on the ground under a car that's on jack stands.
What kinda noise? Popping? Grinding? Squeaking? Knocking?
I would say that when I start moving from a complete stop, it's a knocking sound. When I go over bumps, it's sort of a low-pitched grinding.
Here is a link to a video... ignore the actual video, I took it for the sound only (but if you need to know, that's me pushing the car up and down with the trunk open!).
That's a pretty bizarre noise... usually if it's the swaybar bushings, it's more of a squeaky/creaky sound. If it's something loose, it tends to be more of a knocking/banging sound. If you have both kinds of sounds, I suspect two different issues are causing them...
I know on the first gens, sometimes a large diameter rear swaybar would contact some of the undercoating and make a weird sound when it moved... Might want to visually inspect for clearance around the bar. If it's against parts of the subframe as your friend says, then that's likely the culprit. Might have been quieter initially until you wore through some paint or powdercoat or undercoat or ???
Knocking when you start off sounds more like loose end links, or brake pads shifting, or an endlink touching a spring, or ???
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I'm Paul, The car is Blimey--- BlimeyCabrio's Blog--- 2006 MCSCa w/lotsa mods and Union Jacks
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That's a pretty bizarre noise... usually if it's the swaybar bushings, it's more of a squeaky/creaky sound. If it's something loose, it tends to be more of a knocking/banging sound. If you have both kinds of sounds, I suspect two different issues are causing them...
I know on the first gens, sometimes a large diameter rear swaybar would contact some of the undercoating and make a weird sound when it moved... Might want to visually inspect for clearance around the bar. If it's against parts of the subframe as your friend says, then that's likely the culprit. Might have been quieter initially until you wore through some paint or powdercoat or undercoat or ???
Knocking when you start off sounds more like loose end links, or brake pads shifting, or an endlink touching a spring, or ???
Ok, I'll have to take another look then. The bar was used, so already had some wear where it was rubbing against the previous owner's underbody. The question is - if there are issues with clearances, in that the bar is rubbing against things, how would I fix that? I would think that shouldn't be a problem, given people install 25mm bars with no noises. Is that an indication that it wasn't installed right?
that's an awefull noise. You could try disconnecting the endlinks to see if the noise goes away - then you'll know it's the action of the sway bar causing the noise and not something else that wasn't put back properly.
I just installed mine on Saturday - it was bit tricky to get the old bar out and also to get the sub-frame back in place. You must have had to lower the sub-frame a lot if you didn't remove either of the struts.
Also check that the sway bar is centred - it's easy for it to slip to one side before you clamp it down, and that could cause rubbing.
You could try disconnecting the endlinks to see if the noise goes away - then you'll know it's the action of the sway bar causing the noise and not something else that wasn't put back properly.
EXCELLENT suggestion. I would definitely recommend you try that.
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I'm Paul, The car is Blimey--- BlimeyCabrio's Blog--- 2006 MCSCa w/lotsa mods and Union Jacks
Ten-time Dragon Veteran - Occasional Trackrat - Extreme Twisty Addict - Rhymers Ferry Road Fanatic
Going to bump this thread - took the car to the shop last night to have another look. Everything is supertight, double checked and confirmed. The noise seems to be getting worse when I drive. Best way to describe it is as if I had a tool box with a bunch of big wrenches in the trunk... and everything inside clanked (somewhat low frequency like two large wrenches, not two thin pieces of metal). Sounds like it may be coming only from the left, but then again I sit closer to that side.
While I have not yet tried to disconnect the end links and see what happens, and haven't yet rec'd my new bushings, I took some pictures. On visual inspection, the sway bar is right up against the cradle of the car. Zero clearance. Take a look at this pic here, just behind (and to the top-left) of the bushing.
So first question obviously is - is this normal? I don't see how to install it otherwise. Afterall, it's a 22mm and guys install 25mm, so it must touch, no? Could this be causing the sound?
And second question is - if the endlinks are connected tightly and look ok, is it still possible for one to be bad? What could cause an endlink to go bad, can it get worse over time, and most importantly is it a safety issue to continue driving?
I also installed a rear sway bar and may have a few things to suggest, although I haven't come across similar issues.
As far as clearance, I'm assuming you are referring to the horizontal steel part of the body behind the bushing. If the sway bar is rubbing against that part of the steel, that's bad news. I have a 25mm sway bar and have at least 1mm of clearance.
If clearance is cool, the sound from your video brings my concern to the suspension struts, although like I mentioned; I've never hear this noise and it is only my guess.
One thing that does concern me is you've described your re-assembly as "supertight" on more than one occasion. There are parts (more specifically joints) on the car that naturally move/pivot by design (such as the end links, strut towers, control arms, etc.). Especially in the rear suspension system. If you haven't torqued these points correctly, but rather supertightened them, it may be restricting movement and hence cause this noise due to wear (and perhaps explain why is it progressively getting worse; different joints wearing one after the other). I'm not suggesting you drive around with loose bolts everywhere, but be weary that "supertight" isn't always the correct method.
As a last comment, for troubleshooting I also strongly recommend disconnecting the endlinks. This will help determine if you have a strut/subframe problem or sway bar specific problem.
Let us know what does/doesn't work out this weekend if you have time to tinker.
Alright, that's a big help. I'm waiting to receive my new bushings and will try the endlink disconnect when I go to install them. With respect to the clearance... we had a long look to see if that can be fixed and are totally puzzled as to how the clearance can be affected. Don't all the parts just bolt into place with no room for movement? I would imagine that even if someone totally inexperienced installed it and bolted everything into place, then everything would just fit back together the way it's supposed to - I could be totally wrong though?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pattrick1
I also installed a rear sway bar and may have a few things to suggest, although I haven't come across similar issues.
As far as clearance, I'm assuming you are referring to the horizontal steel part of the body behind the bushing. If the sway bar is rubbing against that part of the steel, that's bad news. I have a 25mm sway bar and have at least 1mm of clearance.
If clearance is cool, the sound from your video brings my concern to the suspension struts, although like I mentioned; I've never hear this noise and it is only my guess.
One thing that does concern me is you've described your re-assembly as "supertight" on more than one occasion. There are parts (more specifically joints) on the car that naturally move/pivot by design (such as the end links, strut towers, control arms, etc.). Especially in the rear suspension system. If you haven't torqued these points correctly, but rather supertightened them, it may be restricting movement and hence cause this noise due to wear (and perhaps explain why is it progressively getting worse; different joints wearing one after the other). I'm not suggesting you drive around with loose bolts everywhere, but be weary that "supertight" isn't always the correct method.
As a last comment, for troubleshooting I also strongly recommend disconnecting the endlinks. This will help determine if you have a strut/subframe problem or sway bar specific problem.
Let us know what does/doesn't work out this weekend if you have time to tinker.
From the pic it looks like a set of bushings is a good idea. Those look like they were on the previous car for a long time.
Also FYI, you say you have a 22mm Hotchkis swaybar. Your bar is actually the Hsport Competition 25.5mm bar, but since it's hollow it is effectively the same rate as a solid 22mm bar, but weights alot less.
Subframe Bolts! Installation of this bar requires you pretty much take out all the subframe bolts. Leaving one of those loose would give you the "ratting toolbox effect", and everything else would appear to be tight.
There are four bolts to check on the subframe.
__________________
"Everyday it feels like you're 8 years old, and for the first time you're tall enough to ride the GoCarts." - me motoringshirts - mods & specs - gallery - blog - work
Subframe Bolts! Installation of this bar requires you pretty much take out all the subframe bolts. Leaving one of those loose would give you the "ratting toolbox effect", and everything else would appear to be tight.
There are four bolts to check on the subframe.
Yeah, checked all 4 bolts and were definitely tight.
From the pic it looks like a set of bushings is a good idea. Those look like they were on the previous car for a long time.
Also FYI, you say you have a 22mm Hotchkis swaybar. Your bar is actually the Hsport Competition 25.5mm bar, but since it's hollow it is effectively the same rate as a solid 22mm bar, but weights alot less.
You can tell by just looking at it? I bought the bar used. Are you sure that Hotchkis didn't make a 22mm previously (3-4 yrs ago)? The guy I got it from told me it was a 22mm.
So I just got a reply from Hotchkis. They told me that, given the size of the bar, it's possible that it could touch the cradle of the car. Apparently in some cases it does and in some cases it doesn't (I'm not sure I understand how that's possible though!). Their suggestion was to take a pry bar and bend the metal so that there is a small amount of clearance between the bar and the cradle of the car.
Does this make sense to anyone?? I'm skeptical of this plan.
So I just got a reply from Hotchkis. They told me that, given the size of the bar, it's possible that it could touch the cradle of the car. Apparently in some cases it does and in some cases it doesn't (I'm not sure I understand how that's possible though!). Their suggestion was to take a pry bar and bend the metal so that there is a small amount of clearance between the bar and the cradle of the car.
Does this make sense to anyone?? I'm skeptical of this plan.
That would work, but a new set of bushings might hold the bar down more, getting you the clearance you need. I have this same 25mm bar on my Clubman. Did the install myself.
__________________
"Everyday it feels like you're 8 years old, and for the first time you're tall enough to ride the GoCarts." - me motoringshirts - mods & specs - gallery - blog - work
You can tell by just looking at it? I bought the bar used. Are you sure that Hotchkis didn't make a 22mm previously (3-4 yrs ago)? The guy I got it from told me it was a 22mm.
Looking at the pic I say 99% its a 25.5mm Comp hotchkis bar. Now I have heard of some cars having the body interfere with the bar, but I personally have never had that problem. And we've installed hundreds of swaybars. If the body is rubbing the bar slightly, it won't hurt to just pry the body out of the way.
Hey everyone, thanks a ton for all your help. Finally got the new bushings from Hotchkis and finally got everything sorted out. So, all my problems actually stemmed from three separate (albeit related) issues.
First, the bushings were old and crusty and making creaking sounds. Brand new bushings ($9 + shipping) resolved that.
Second, the sway bar was touching the subframe, which was what was causing the horrible creaking. Every little bump caused it to rotate and scrape against the steel. Took Hotchkis' advise and jammed a screwdriver in there to try to pry the metal away. I'm not sure that actually did anything, but when we changed the bushings, we tried to pry the bar as far from the metal as possible before tightening them down, thereby pushing the bushing mount towards the front of the car as much as possible. That 1/16" left enough room between the bar and the body. Also moved the sway bar position from the tightest setting to the middle setting. Not sure if that helped anything.
And finally, the left side end link was totally loose!! The tools-in-the-trunk-clunking was definitely a result of the that. The link itself seemed ok still, but somehow loosened off. And the clunking was getting worse over time, so obviously it was just loosening more and more.
So... new bushings... a good pry away from the body... and a good crank of the end link... NO MORE NOISES! I can finally begin enjoying my car again!
VONQUIK
