I just had Bilstein PSS 9s and Alta adjustable end links installed by my mechanic. Set at roughly minimum drop, camber at -1.8 and corner balanced. I've probably put about 100 miles or so on the car since doing this and so far I'm underwhelmed with the ride which seems bouncy. I started at 9s both front and rear and am now at 2 front and rear which is certainly very firm but it still feels like things are not working in harmony as the ride still feels bouncy.

This is my first experience with coil overs, so I'm not sure what to expect but was expecting better. Virtually every other car I've owned has had Bilstein Sports with some sort of mild lowering spring and i've been very happy with the ride and handling.

Anyone else experienced this with PSS9s? Anywhere I might have gone wrong? Most everyone seems to sing their praises, so I'm at a bit of a loss

Thanks in advance!


Tom

 

Was it new or used? After my installed the car glued to the tarmaclike a touring sport car Please let us know what your result is.

 

Which wheels and tires are you using?
Any upgrade to the rear sway bar- what is the setting if adjustable?
Do you have front adjustable camber plates or rear lower adjustable control arms- these help set from and rear camber.
You mention -1.8 camber, I assume you mean for the rear and that front is not adjustable but what is it?
What are the toe settings front and rear? Stock settings?

And why did you install the PSS9 at minimal drop? The whole point of coilovers is to allow you to do more than just minimal drop plus all the other adjustments you can do.

Was your MINI aligned after the install?
Try something like a 1" drop front and rear.
Then make sure the front camber is about -0.5 degree unless you have a front camber plate then you can adjust front camber to something more aggressive -1.0 to -2.0 degrees.
If you can adjust the rear camber try -1.4 to -1.6 degrees. Too much negative in the rear isn't that helpful for all uses. Even -1.2 degrees would work.
Set toe not so stock, try zero toe front and rear or maybe 1/16" out in the front and zero in the rear.

I have PSS9 and have set them on all of the various levels of stiffness with various rims and tires from 15" with track tires or stock 175/65-15 contis to 17" rims with 215/45-17 tires. Stiff side wall tires are not bouncy while the 55 and 65 series tires can be. I'd estimate my current drop to be about 1.75", I don't have a bouncy ride.

 

Thanks for the responses. The PSS 9 package is new. In response to Minihunes specific questions:

Rear sway bar is R Speed set to middle position

Yes, have both adjustable camber plates and control arms. -1.8 is front camber, I need to double check rear as I forgot to have them check that after the PSS9s were put on and i can't remember what i originally had it set at.

Toe is at 1/16 out in front. Will have to check rear.

Minimum drop is to say it wasn't slammed down. It's roughly at 1" drop but will double check

Front of Car was aligned afterwards, but again don't believe rear was

17" 45 aspect ratio tires-Goodyear Eagle F1 GS D3

In retrospect i'm going to double check ride height/drop against stock both front and rear. I think this seems like it might be the most likely place to start.

I should also clarify that by bouncy i don't mean that i'm pogoing down the street, but there is uncontrolled small oscillations and things do not feel as controlled/dampened as they should (or as they did with stock suspension for that matter).

Best Regards,


Tom

 

when I switched from H-sport/Koni yellows to PSS9s I felt too much roll so I added the H sport front sway bar.... my rears are set at 5 and the front I go from 6-4 depending....the eople that have been in my car all comment on the ride for steet car.

 

You stated that it was corner balanced. Not sure who did this but I've seen that there are quite a few shops that have no idea what they are doing when they CB a car. Now that you may be lowering the car more then the CB job is toast anyway. CBing a car that's not strictly track is really not worth it.
Check for sway bar preload as this seems to be a common problem. I might bet that the issue lies there.
Don't run too much rebound dampening. I forget which is which on the PSS9s, but you should be no more then a few clicks from minimum. If you firm up the rebound too much then the car will start to feel real odd.

 

<<You stated that it was corner balanced. Not sure who did this but I've seen that there are quite a few shops that have no idea what they are doing when they CB a car>.

Done by Vintage Sports Racing in Bow, NH who I have full faith in and does plenty of track car prep up this way. That said I am going to take it back to double check several things just to make sure... Also may raise the car-I'm going to double check ride height numbers to see where it sits now, but yes either way if i change it the original CB is shot.

Best Regards,


Tom

 

Tom,

OK, this helps.

To do corner balancing you need to disconnect both front and rear swaybars from the endlinks on one side- this removes any preload you have. Next you need to be sitting in the car at the driver's seat with your helmet on and all fuels topped off full and I like to have the race wheels on as you expect to use on the track. In otherwords set your car up for racing and corner balance for this configuration. No floor mats, no extra weight anywhere- I usually remove the rear seat and all stereo stuff as well.

OK on your set up. If you have adjustable front camber plates and rear lower control arms then you can set alignment to anything you want. Alignment is always done at the very end after all four corner heights are adjusted and balanced.

If you are doing only street driving then corner balancing is not so crucial.

Ride height front and rear needs to be set. As equal right and left for the front and same right and left for the back but often with the front camber plates there is a bit more gap in the front due to the thickness of the plates but this does vary. You don't need to slam the ride height but not too high either, maybe 1" to 1.3" drop is enough.

Most important are the alignment settings. If left and right camber or toe are not equal then you will not have a smooth ride.

How much camber to have in the front and the rear will depend on your intended use. How much toe is also the same. If you want really smooth then choose close to stock settings but this is hardly aggresive for fun driving- but it is very smooth and predictable.

So, what are you going to use your MINI for? How much street driving vs autocross or track or driving events, etc.

Having camber plates and lower control arms you can do anything you want and so at least a little aggressive is nice.

Whenever alignment is done you should be getting a readout of the specs before and after alignment so you can see how you were originally and how you are at the end. I always get this sheet.

 

I had exactly the same experience with my PSS9s on my Mini. And before that the same (but less noticeable) with H&R coilovers on an Audi A6. When I was driving my Mini home from installation at Helix I was shocked at just how awful the ride was. I felt like I was riding on 4 pogo sticks. I drove that way for about a week before I set them to full stiff front and rear. Over time, the ride got stiffer and now I'm at 6F/7R. I've been told that there is a break-in period for the dampers. Sounds logical to me, although I know very little about damper construction. Give it some time and it will work itself out. Not sure why some folks have this problem and some dont.

 

Twin-tube shocks take a little bit of time to break-in (not much), but Bilsteins are mono-tube so they should be ready to go out of the box.

I agree with Onsled. I think you should make sure your swaybars don't have any preload. Also double check that your "corner balance" (did they actually put the car on scales? grease plates?) isn't way off. Just measure the ride height at each corner with the car on level ground. They should be relatively close (but not perfect).

Arn't your shocks "double adjustable". Make sure you are setting BOTH settings to full soft. (I could be wrong about this)

 

Interesting take on things...hopefully my experience will mirror yours. At the moment I'm going to get back with my mechanic next week and review the setup in terms of ride height, corner balancing, and alignment. The shop is one of the leading shops for BMWCCA club racers and track junkies in the area and i am confident in their work-that said never hurts to double check in cases like this where everyone has had great success with something and your sitting there thinking this is horrible.

Best Regards,


Tom

 

Do you have a theory then, on why my ride was so bouncy? Genuine question. I watched the shop (not Helix) corner-balanced my car... the diagonal cross-weights were so close that they didn't even adjust the ride height. The alignment they gave me was complete crap, but given all the alignment difficulties I've been through over the past year I can say with confidence that a bad alignment could not have produced the bounciness that I was experiencing. Nor could it have been preload on the swaybar. I had that too on my front bar and even snapped an endlink. Going back to the stock links made the steering less hyper but did not significantly affect the ride.

Tder, please let us know what they say after they drive the car. I'd be surprised if your alignment, corner-balance, or swaybar binding are causing this issue. But I'm just speculating and could be wrong...

 

PSS9s are single-adjustable for rebound.

 

You cannot compare your experience between bilstein dampers installed on another car and PSS9s installed on the Mini. Wheel base alone will affect how two identical set-ups feel.

 

Agreed. I just thought it seemed relevant to mention that I felt the same underdamped pogo feeling for the first few weeks when the H&R coilovers were installed on my Audi. Certainly, there's no comparison to the Mini... wheelbase and suspension travel being completely different. In both cases, the pogo feeling went away after a while.

 

"it'd go away after a while"... how long is a while?

I fitted my PSS9 two fridays ago and while the initial pogo stick feeling has gone, it is still bouncy when travelling slowly. But on normal faster speeds, it's very composed.

It's on setting 5F/5R now. The height is measure to match my previous springs which were Eibach but with the rear raised about 5mm to prevent any scrapping of the rear tyres.

I have both the front (softest) and rear (middle) H-sport competition sway bars. And camber is set at 1min50secs for all 4 corners. This is because the front are fixed Ireland plates bought 2nd hand and I need the rear camber to be that to clear the rear arches.

This is also my first time using coilovers. And when compared with a Eibach/bilstein damping combo, mine doesn't feel as composed. Quite perplexing.

Any ideas, guys?

 

This is very concerning to me since I just ordered the PSS9's. For the amount of money I'm spending I don't want a bad ride I may cancel the order now. There is other places to spend 2k on my MINI.

 

Try 6 front, 8 rear. I've found that setting to reduce the pogoing that I had before.

Scott
90SM

 

Whilst it's not a "bad ride", I suppose thats why it's called a adjustable coilover. It's definately composed at higher driving speeds. The pogo feeling is when driving in slow slow speeds, like speeds akin to 10-15km/h. Normal driving speeds are composed. And at spirited driving speeds, it's very stable. I'm just confused with the slow pogo feeling. However, like most ppl have said, it takes a while to settle and harden up.

Like most ppl that I've talked to, including my installer, all have suggested softening the shocks a notch (6F/7R or 6F/6R) , and thats what I'll do soon. And if I don't like that, I'd harden it to 4F/5R. I'll keep this thread updated.

We've gotta adjust any coilovers to suit our driving styles and preference, I suppose.

I haven't regretted purchasing the PSS9.

 

Just a update. I re-setted the Pss9 today and the senior mechanic who did my adjustment today told me that the settings were set wrongly by his junior mech! It was set at 6F/5R! No wonder it was bouncy in a strange way!

Anyways, now that it has been sorted out, it's now 6F/7R and the ride is purrrrfect.

I have no idea why ppl set the front 1 more than the rear, but I just follow suit. I think the reason is that the Mini is heavier in the front, thats why it needs to be to be stiffer up there. Does anyone else have other reasoning?

 

Smart A** Mode ON: You paid a "senior mechanic" to reach under your car and turn the little ***** to change your shock settings? You can't do this yourself?

Smart A** Mode OFF: The shock setting depend on how you want to change the balance of your Mini. I don't think the fact that the front is heavier has anything to do with it.

Here's a great suspension tuning guide to help you "setup your car".
http://www.wtrscca.org/tech.htm

Just remember that shocks only effect corner entry and corner exit. They don't effect the middle of the corner (steady state cornering).

But it sounds like you don't care much about that. You're more interested in improving the ride quality. If that's truely the case, I would just run them on full soft.

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks for the link.

1.No no, I didn't pay him... They are obligated to do my settings as and when i want to as they installed them. But when the guy did the settings, i saw how he did it so, yeah, i guess i can do it myself the next time. But why dirty my hands, when they can do it for me? hahahaa!

2. I'm no suspension expert but... i can certainly feel the car being less bouncy. My theory is that due to the front being softer than the rear, the weight from the front, when going over small unleveled bumps, caused the weight to resonate the weight back and forth because the rear is stiffer. Hence causing the front to "bounce" more. I dunno... just a guess. But whatever it is, my current setting has a better feel to it and definately less bounce, which is good.

Yes I'm concern about ride quality as most of the time is spent on the streets, but I also like to throw the car around corners when the coast is clear. If I can feel the car isn't "balanced", then something isn't right, right?

It's my first time having coilovers so please (sincerely) cut me some slack. I will go thru the link you posted to understand more about suspension settings.

 

No sweat. Sorry if I came across to harsh.

1) I just wanted to flip you some crap. Seriously, you should learn to adjust the shocks youself. Then you can have the best of both worlds. Put them on full soft when you want to take Grandma to the store and stiffen them up when you want to take it to the track or something. I bet you can do it without even getting your hands dirty. Try leaving the car running and turn the front wheels for easier access to the adjusters.

2) I'm not sure about how shocks effect the car being less bouncy. If you stiffen them up they should ride rougher and visa versa.

If I were you, I'd try turning the fronts down to full soft and the rears to full stiff. Then carefully throw the car into some turns (don't do this for the first time on wet roads or ice). Then stop, and adjust the fronts to full stiff and the rears to full soft and drive around some more. I'm guessing you'll quickly get a better feel for how shocks effect the handling (balance) of your car.

Now, if you really want to discover something really cool, start playing with your rear toe-in/out.

 

The front springs are progressive rate, and the rears are linear. Setting the front dampers to a slightly stiffer setting (lower numerically with Bilstein's system) helps even out the car motion for general driving.

Setting the shocks too soft can actually deteriorate ride quality nearly as much as having them too stiff. It is dependant on the spring rates and damper valving. For SPAX softer did equal cushier ride, though it did get bit too floaty for my taste if adjusted full soft. It was actually softer and allowed more body motion than stock. Same thing for Tokiko illuminas / Eibach springs on a previous car.

The PSS9s, again in my own experience and preference, had a very choppy ride with both ends set full soft. Going one click harder in front (8) helped, and going to 6F,8R helped even more as the body motions are much more controled and doesn't pitch forward and back so much. I don't autocross at these settings.

Scott
90SM

 

I run 6F/7R on the steet and 4-3F/4-5R on the track.