Welcome to North American Motoring, the North American MINI Community of owners and enthusiasts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and photo galleries. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other MINI enthusiasts (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photo gallery and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact our support team.
Poll: Mushrooming/strut mount failure data collection
Welcome to North American Motoring !
Welcome to North American Motoring,
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!
I went to put on my new M7STB and frickin mushrooming on both sides. 04MCS 18" Dunlop Run-Flats stock suspension. I am going to the dealer to see what can be done. Will update.
. . . Not certain that I can tell whether this is occurring on my car: '05 w/17" runflats . . . low miles
is there any difference here than depicted on MiniMacPR's photos?
I'm pretty good about dodging pot holes and taking it easy on rough road. Can hard cornering do the damage as well?
You certainly appear to be tempting fate (with the 17-inch wheels and runflat tires).
In terms of do your strut towers show mushrooming - they don't appear to be; however, the only way to conclusively tell would be to put some re-inforcing plates on and see if there is any mushrooming.
Safe driving practices seem to have avoided the dreaded disease (mushrooming). But if it were mine, I would either loose the runflats and 17 inch wheels or invest in a set of re-inforcing plates. Or, better yet - re-inforce from below with a set of camber plates. Also, there is the risk of cracked strut mounts inside the strut towers. Reinforcing plates won't stop that (strut mount failure) from happening.
Last edited by caminifan : 10-16-2006 at 10:19 PM.
Reason: Spelling errors
I'm not trying to tempt anything . . . I'm more than a bit concerned about this issue . . . and, mushrooming aside, have wanted to add a STB in addition to other upgrades. No real interest in the 16" wheels . . . at least I haven't been looking in that direction.
I'm also curious as to whether loads experienced in dramatic cornering can produce the same damage as a pothole?
A prior post questionned how the SRP's work. I'm not an engineer, but I can't quite grasp how the plate functions on the top of the tower.
Would it not have to be installed under the portion of the body work that the struts are actually mounted to make any difference . . . otherwise I imagine it could eventually get "punched" up, possibly stripping the bolts upon which it is mounted.
What do I know? Not much.
__________________
DS '05 MCs * JCW CAI * JCW Exhaust * Premium Pack * 6 spd Manual/LSD * Xenon * Lapis Blue Leather * Chrono Pack * Chrome Line Interior/Exterior * Alloy Patina Interior * HK Sound w/iPod * Map Light * Driving Lights * Chrome Mirrors
I'm not trying to tempt anything . . . I'm more than a bit concerned about this issue . . . and, mushrooming aside, have wanted to add a STB in addition to other upgrades. No real interest in the 16" wheels . . . at least I haven't been looking in that direction.
16 inch wheels are a consideration insofar as the tires will be taller (going from /45 series cross section to /50 series), which provides more rubber (the tire sidewall) to absorb road impact before it gets transmitted to the strut tower.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutnThrust
I'm also curious as to whether loads experienced in dramatic cornering can produce the same damage as a pothole?
Doubtful as the load from cornering is different (horizontal application of forces) than potholes (vertical application of forces). Although, if you hit a pothole while cornering, all bets are off....
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutnThrust
A prior post questionned how the SRP's work. I'm not an engineer, but I can't quite grasp how the plate functions on the top of the tower.
There has been a whole line of back-and-forth in another thread between Dave and at least two of the people (Peter and Randy if memory serves) at M7 about which is the best way to protect from mushrooming the strut towers. Plates on top of the strut tower probably can be conceptualized as adding a re-inforcement that fights the urge of the strut tower sheet metal to give (bulge/mushroom) in response to road impacts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutnThrust
Would it not have to be installed under the portion of the body work that the struts are actually mounted to make any difference . . . otherwise I imagine it could eventually get "punched" up, possibly stripping the bolts upon which it is mounted.
You have grasped the essential point of debate between Dave and the crew at M7. My personal belief is that the plates probably provide an intermediate level of protection against mushrooming. A more permanent solution would be to install camber plates under the strut tower sheet metal. If you were to install adjustable camber plates under the strut towers, you would gain a further benefit in that you could adjust camber and further improve the MINI's handling. Also, Ireland Engineering sells a fixed camber plate that has a mild amount of negative camber but has a more robust strut mount (the rubber thing that is also prone to fail in addition to the mushrooming). The reinforcement plates will do nothing to stop the rubber strut mount from failing in response to road impacts; so, the best solution in my mind is the Ireland Engineering fixed camber plates with the more robust strut mount.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutnThrust
What do I know? Not much.
Don't sell yourself short. You were able to think through the issues and ask relevent questions.
I went to put on my new M7STB and frickin mushrooming on both sides. 04MCS 18" Dunlop Run-Flats stock suspension. I am going to the dealer to see what can be done. Will update.
I have the Strut Reinforcement Plates instead of the Strut Brace, but the directions that are included with the Plates describe how to flatten out the mushrooming with a block of wood and a hammer. Worked perfectly on my wife's car, and her mushrooming was bad enough that the passenger-side plate wouldn't even go on over the bolts at first. I did wrap the wood block with a thin towel to prevent marring the paint on the strut tower.
Just installed some M7 shock tower plates. When I set them on the towers I only had 1/16 - 1/8 inch worth of deflection. When I tightened all the bolts down, everything went right.
Just installed some M7 shock tower plates. When I set them on the towers I only had 1/16 - 1/8 inch worth of deflection. When I tightened all the bolts down, everything went right.
You're fortunate that your mushrooming was so lite. It also doesn't speak well to the design and quailty (thickness) of the steel used to make the towers that they can be deflected so easily by tightening those bolts.
But at least you are back to normal, more or less.
And your car, too. Just kidding.
__________________
www.usminiclub.com Obie: my '05 MINI Cooper - Jet Black, Premium and Sport packages, chrome side vents with white/clear repeaters, M7 STPs, K&N 57i intake, Megan Racing MINI Cooper cat-back exhaust, TSW engine damper, Alta 19mm anti-sway bar, Ian Cull anti-nanny circuit.
UPDATE:
Just got SF back from the dealer. Originally the dealer said they would fix the mushrooming, after they had it for a couple of days, they said they WILL NOT fix the mushrooming. I was suprised that they said they would and didn't really fight to have it fixed. I became friends with one of the techs @ the dealer and asked how I could fix it. He told me that he would fix it for me and that he would put on the M7STB as well I was also in there for a noisy clutch, back up light not working, and getting one of my R105's fixed after NTB scratched it up. I picked up SF about 10 days later and everything is good.
Moral of the story: Become friends with a tech @ your dealership and you get things done. Everytime I am there for service, warranty work or not, I slip him a $20. Not much, but gets you remembered. Oh yea, he also installed my UniChip about 3 months ago.
I have both the mushrooming and cracked strut mounts. It is visually noticable on both sides. I am not suprised after looking at the nasty impacts on my wheels. I'm sure it was from those impacts and my wife flying over some speed bumps. It also nearly destroyed the ball joints and ruined a set of tires from being severely out of alignment.
Does anyone know of a good reinforcement in addition to the M7 plates? I thought of getting camber plates, but I am only a spirited street driver. Camber plates are EXTREME overkill! If I was going to get a track suspension, I would do it. But if I take her to the track, it will only be for a weekend here and there and not for competition. I also don't want to simply replace the strut mounts with oem mounts because if it happened once, it will happen again. I don't think the M7 plates could possibly provide any kind of protection for stock strut mounts.
Does anyone know of some stronger reinforced strut mounts? There has to be another way that does not cost $400+. I want a permanent fix (ie. under and on top of the strut tower). But since I will likely have to replace the front shocks, I can't afford to also buy camber plates that I will not reap the track benefits from. Strut mounts are $40 each side. That is 5 replacements before I exceed the cost of the camber plates.
I have both the mushrooming and cracked strut mounts. It is visually noticable on both sides. I am not suprised after looking at the nasty impacts on my wheels. I'm sure it was from those impacts and my wife flying over some speed bumps. It also nearly destroyed the ball joints and ruined a set of tires from being severely out of alignment.
Does anyone know of a good reinforcement in addition to the M7 plates? I thought of getting camber plates, but I am only a spirited street driver. Camber plates are EXTREME overkill! If I was going to get a track suspension, I would do it. But if I take her to the track, it will only be for a weekend here and there and not for competition. I also don't want to simply replace the strut mounts with oem mounts because if it happened once, it will happen again. I don't think the M7 plates could possibly provide any kind of protection for stock strut mounts.
Does anyone know of some stronger reinforced strut mounts? There has to be another way that does not cost $400+. [Emphasis added.] I want a permanent fix (ie. under and on top of the strut tower). But since I will likely have to replace the front shocks, I can't afford to also buy camber plates that I will not reap the track benefits from. Strut mounts are $40 each side. That is 5 replacements before I exceed the cost of the camber plates.
Have you considered Ireland Engineering fixed strut mounts? They are less than $400, and the negative camber is not too aggressive. Plus they are a more robust solution to mushrooming and failure of the strut mount.
But, the Ireland Engineering strut mounts will not stop the wheel damage. I don't know of any cure for operator error....
Operator error is not the issue when it comes to the relatively small impacts that it takes to mushroom the towers. Now if I hit a 6" curb going 50 mph, I expect extreme damage to the entire suspension. Any impact that would cause wheel damage or strut damage would likely mess up a tower. The problem is the impacts that are ONLY messing up the towers and not damaging the other suspension parts and wheels.
MINI and BMW need to step up to the plate and create a reinforced strut mount. This would not cost that much money to mass produce a stronger part.
This would at least save 1 more thing to fix after an impact. No more hammering the towers back into place.
Operator error is not the issue when it comes to the relatively small impacts that it takes to mushroom the towers. Now if I hit a 6" curb going 50 mph, I expect extreme damage to the entire suspension. Any impact that would cause wheel damage or strut damage would likely mess up a tower. The problem is the impacts that are ONLY messing up the towers and not damaging the other suspension parts and wheels.
MINI and BMW need to step up to the plate and create a reinforced strut mount. This would not cost that much money to mass produce a stronger part. [Emphasis added.]
This would at least save 1 more thing to fix after an impact. No more hammering the towers back into place.
Don't hold your breath waiting for MINI/BMW to release a fix to the issue on the R52/53 MINI. There may be a fix for the problem on the R56 MINI, but that will only become apparent once actual production reaches the market.
In the absence of a fix from MINI, there are solutions presently available in the aftermarket. If I were looking for a cost-benefit justification, I would look at the Ireland Engineering fixed camber plates as a robust solution to both the mushrooming and strut mount failure issues with the added benefit of improved handling with minimal adverse tire wear issues.
Don't hold your breath waiting for MINI/BMW to release a fix to the issue on the R52/53 MINI. There may be a fix for the problem on the R56 MINI, but that will only become apparent once actual production reaches the market.
In the absence of a fix from MINI, there are solutions presently available in the aftermarket. If I were looking for a cost-benefit justification, I would look at the Ireland Engineering fixed camber plates as a robust solution to both the mushrooming and strut mount failure issues with the added benefit of improved handling with minimal adverse tire wear issues.
I am going with the IEFCP as well. It is deffinately worth the $ and from what I have read, the camber doesn't promote excessive wear on the tires.
In the absence of a fix from MINI, there are solutions presently available in the aftermarket. If I were looking for a cost-benefit justification, I would look at the Ireland Engineering fixed camber plates as a robust solution to both the mushrooming and strut mount failure issues with the added benefit of improved handling with minimal adverse tire wear issues.
MY 06 MCS is a recent victim of Mushroom Syndrome and a cracked strut mount (rubber thingy) *ouchie!*. In reading the above passage, am I to understand that a IE camber plate replacement would also address this fix as well? Is it indeed a more cost-effective solution (then say, a trip to the dealer), considering I do not foresee "track time" in my immediate future?
MY 06 MCS is a recent victim of Mushroom Syndrome and a cracked strut mount (rubber thingy) *ouchie!*. In reading the above passage, am I to understand that a IE camber plate replacement would also address this fix as well? Is it indeed a more cost-effective solution (then say, a trip to the dealer), considering I do not foresee "track time" in my immediate future?
I changed out my stock strut mounts and added the M7 strut bar this week. One of my mounts was cracked! It blew me away the difference in thickness the metal is on the IE strut mounts vs. the stock ones, it is like twice the thickness. After the install I took the car out on a "test run". I can take corners 8- 12 MPH faster than before depending on the curve.
To truly "fix" the problem you need the IE plates and the M7 strut bar or the M7 reinforcement plates. You probably could get away with stock mounts and either M7 product but, you definitely need one of the M7 products for the top of the strut tower. I know people who didn't even drive there car off the lot until the M7 plates/ bar where installed!
I changed out my stock strut mounts and added the M7 strut bar this week. One of my mounts was cracked! It blew me away the difference in thickness the metal is on the IE strut mounts vs. the stock ones, it is like twice the thickness. After the install I took the car out on a "test run". I can take corners 8- 12 MPH faster than before depending on the curve.
To truly "fix" the problem you need the IE plates and the M7 strut bar or the M7 reinforcement plates. You probably could get away with stock mounts and either M7 product but, you definitely need one of the M7 products for the top of the strut tower. I know people who didn't even drive there car off the lot until the M7 plates/ bar where installed!
thanks for the info-- now here's the irony: i still probably wouldn't have noticed the mushrooming and strut mount, if i hadn't purchased the M7 strut brace at AMVIV. The installer pointed it out to me!
As for your install, can you briefly (on or offline) describe the process? did you take it to a shop?
thanks again- i know i'm reviving a mostly dead thread.
thanks for the info-- now here's the irony: i still probably wouldn't have noticed the mushrooming and strut mount, if i hadn't purchased the M7 strut brace at AMVIV. The installer pointed it out to me!
As for your install, can you briefly (on or offline) describe the process? did you take it to a shop?
thanks again- i know i'm reviving a mostly dead thread.
I first removed the struts from the car and changed out the upper mounts. Before reinstalling the struts, I took the plate part of the strut brace and set it on top of the strut tower to see how bad the mushrooming was. I then took a piece of 2X4 about 5 inches long and set it flat across the hole where you would see the strut rubber through and then took a Dead Blow hammer and smacked it good and hard a couple of times. Then using the plate again from the strut bar seeing where I needed to to hit next. Sometimes I used the end of the piece of the wood to get in between the raised ribs in the strut tower metal too. The things to remember when doing it this way is:
1. Smack it good and hard! Do a couple of blows then check the metal with the plate to see where you need to hit next.
2. Don't get in a rush, you don't want to over do it!
3. Realize you will not be able to get it perfectly flat. Get it as close as possible then when you reinstall the struts and the plate on top and tighten it down it will help "squish" the metal flat.
I hope this helps. Let me know how it went after you are done.
Not trying to sidestep your question, but there are numerous threads here on NAM that answer your very question. Look in the suspension section, pop open a cool one (or more), and read away. =o)
__________________
www.usminiclub.com Obie: my '05 MINI Cooper - Jet Black, Premium and Sport packages, chrome side vents with white/clear repeaters, M7 STPs, K&N 57i intake, Megan Racing MINI Cooper cat-back exhaust, TSW engine damper, Alta 19mm anti-sway bar, Ian Cull anti-nanny circuit.
I picked up Jerome on Sat and this was been my fear since driving him. He's got the 17's with the runflats add that with living in LA. *sigh* This should be fun. I guess I should start looking into preventative measures.
Do you think I will get flak from BMW/MINI for installing reinforcements to prevent this?
__________________ (J3rome) 2006 MCS - Dark Silver w/ Black Bonnet Stripes.
Unfortunately, L.A. does not have the exclusive on crappy roads. I would argue that the S.F. Bay Area gets the award for the worst roads; some on NAM would even agree with me. The bottom line is that if you have 17 inch or larger wheels and runflat tires, you have a higher risk of failure of the strut mount(s) and/or mushrooming of the shock tower(s).
There are preventive measures that can be taken, so it really is a question of where you are on the risk scale and what your tolerance for risk is.
04MCS 18" Dunlop Run-Flats stock suspension. I am going to the dealer to see what can be done. Will update. 
Just kidding.
Hybrid Mode
