Poll: Mushrooming/strut mount failure data collection - Page 5

HVYWGHT · #**101** 11-27-2006, 01:25 PM

I have a 2004 MINI Cooper, standard suspension, regular 15" wheels, non-runflats, and have this with both strut mounts, no mushrooming. I have 31k miles, not that much.

I believe it's a design flaw. Why is that other cars don't suffer from it? And yes, the MINI's suspension is firm, but not so much as to destroy strut mounts and towers.

We need to do something about this. It's not normal wear and tear if cars of very variable mileage and very variable wheel/tire/suspension combinations are experiencing the same failures.

caminifan · #**102** 11-27-2006, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HVYWGHT

I have a 2004 MINI Cooper, standard suspension, regular 15" wheels, non-runflats, and have this with both strut mounts, no mushrooming. I have 31k miles, not that much.

I believe it's a design flaw. Why is that other cars don't suffer from it? And yes, the MINI's suspension is firm, but not so much as to destroy strut mounts and towers.

We need to do something about this. [Emphasis added.] It's not normal wear and tear if cars of very variable mileage and very variable wheel/tire/suspension combinations are experiencing the same failures.

What would you propose be done? MINI has already taken the position that any damage to the strut mount and/or strut towers is a road hazard item. In some instances, MINI is picking up the cost of replacement of the strut mounts. Beyond that, don't hold your breath for MINI to do something. At that point, it becomes a personal decision - how much are you willing to pay for peace of mind? $100 - go with the M7 strut reinforcing plates and keep inspecting your strut mounts. $300-ish - go with Ireland Engineering fixed camber plates and an alignment and the problem should be solved plus you get the benefit of improved handling from the 1.25 degrees of negative camber that is provided by the plates.

johnnymg · #**103** 11-29-2006, 07:29 PM

Hmmmmmmm.................... no reported problems from the stock 15" wheel/tire combos. Me thinks this is a design problem.

JohnG

caminifan · #**104** 11-30-2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnymg

Hmmmmmmm.................... no reported problems from the stock 15" wheel/tire combos. Me thinks this is a design problem.

JohnG

It could very well be a design problem. Getting MINI to admit it much less remedy it is an entirely different matter.

erickvonzipper · #**105** 11-30-2006, 11:15 PM

Of course it's a design flaw. Never have I had or heard of a car that has parts of its chassis bent out of shape by normal road irregularities. It's horse hockey that MINI doesn't offer a correction for this, but it would cost them huge $$ because the flaw and remedy, whatever that may be, is a major structural part of every car.

IanF · #**106** 12-01-2006, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erickvonzipper

Of course it's a design flaw. Never have I had or heard of a car that has parts of its chassis bent out of shape by normal road irregularities.

I suppose you are not familiar with the rear upper mounts on the BMW E36 (3-series)? Unfortunately, I am. Fortunately, we did not experience the rarer occurance of the entire rear suspension subframe assembly ripping out of the car under hard cornering - which has sent a few guys to the hospital... or worse... Therefore the MINI's issues do not surprise me at all...

pooch1 · #**107** 12-01-2006, 07:11 PM

No mushrooming here 2003 with one good pothole hit on right side

erickvonzipper · #**108** 12-01-2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanF

I suppose you are not familiar with the rear upper mounts on the BMW E36 (3-series)? Unfortunately, I am. Fortunately, we did not experience the rarer occurance of the entire rear suspension subframe assembly ripping out of the car under hard cornering - which has sent a few guys to the hospital... or worse... Therefore the MINI's issues do not surprise me at all...

Okay, maybe I should have qualified my statement. BMW and MINI are from the same magical place, yes? It seems to me to be a design flaw peculiar to this parent company, unless there are other expensive auto brands that have these same types of anomalies. I've driven American and Japanese cars for 25 years or so and have never bent a frame, not counting the time I drove my Rabbit into a concrete barrier. But that's a whole 'nother story.

AKIndiMini · #**109** 12-02-2006, 02:26 AM

Ugh. Well I finally took a look at my MCS (stock 17" Pirelli runflats) and it appears that the right (passenger side) strut tower has a very very faint case of mushrooming. The driver's side looks ok. I didn't actually measure or anything, just going by eyeball.

Bought my '04 MCS used, it was originally a San Francisco vehicle so I'm sure it has hit some potholes in its lifetime.

Guess it's time for me to get some strut tower supports before the problem gets worse.

This also prompted me to remove the 17" wheels/tires, and install a set of 15" winter studded tires. Rides quite a bit smoother now!

IanF · #**110** 12-04-2006, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erickvonzipper

Okay, maybe I should have qualified my statement. BMW and MINI are from the same magical place, yes? It seems to me to be a design flaw peculiar to this parent company, unless there are other expensive auto brands that have these same types of anomalies. I've driven American and Japanese cars for 25 years or so and have never bent a frame, not counting the time I drove my Rabbit into a concrete barrier. But that's a whole 'nother story.

Well, I said it doesn't surprise me... doesn't mean I the consider that to be an excuse... Not sure why BMW seems to like under-engineering suspension mounting points... especially consider they love over-engineering everything else...

CutnThrust · #**111** 12-04-2006, 10:36 AM

More questions:

How do the Ireland and Dinan camber plates differ? Are the Dinan plates available a la carte?
Do either compromise clearance for the addition of a STB . . . as I've read the M7 SRP's might?

ScottRiqui · #**112** 12-04-2006, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CutnThrust

More questions:

How do the Ireland and Dinan camber plates differ? Are the Dinan plates available a la carte?
Do either compromise clearance for the addition of a STB . . . as I've read the M7 SRP's might?

Well, the M7 SRPs will prevent using a strut-tower brace, but the M7 strut brace basically has a strut-reinforcement plate at each end, so you wouldn't need both the plates and the brace. I have their SRPs right now, but when I change autocross classes and am allowed to run a STB, I'll just remove the SRPs, sell them, and replace them with the tower brace.

Scott

MSFITOY · #**113** 12-04-2006, 11:05 AM

Let's assume that the greatest number of votes from 17" with runflats are stock Slites and runflats? Do you suppose that having nearly 50lbs of inertia combined with extra stiff runflats are the culprit? Now combine this with a lowering springs of which 99% of use do not include strut upgrade. Now you have a overly compliant suspension with little travel plus exessive mass pounding the livin crap out of the strut towers due to constant bottoming of the struts...

CutnThrust · #**114** 12-04-2006, 03:08 PM

As I'm not interested in 16" rims, I have wondered whether lighter wheels would make more of a difference than small rims, assuming of course the tires are not runflats.

?

**Fatherdeth** · #**115** 12-04-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSFITOY

Let's assume that the greatest number of votes from 17" with runflats are stock Slites and runflats? Do you suppose that having nearly 50lbs of inertia combined with extra stiff runflats are the culprit? Now combine this with a lowering springs of which 99% of use do not include strut upgrade. Now you have a overly compliant suspension with little travel plus exessive mass pounding the livin crap out of the strut towers due to constant bottoming of the struts...

True, and so now let's assume BMW knew this and should've re-evaluated the original design.

AKIndiMini · #**116** 12-04-2006, 08:39 PM

Question for those of you with minor strut tower mushrooming...

After inspecting my car, I found that the towers have a little bit of mushrooming, more so on the passenger side. I'm looking at getting the M7 SRPs. I'll have to straighten the towers before installing these, right? What exactly is the procedure for straightening the strut tower? Will I have to remove the struts? Thanks in advance!

erickvonzipper · #**117** 12-04-2006, 08:47 PM

My right side tower had minor mushrooming. You might be able to install the brace without doing anything to the top of the tower if you can get the nut to screw down a few threads without resistance. I had to bang mine down just a bit to get the nuts started and down a few threads. Then I tightened them down slowly, alternating between the three until they were tight (don't use too much force). I could feel the top of the tower move as I tightened down the nuts.

**Fatherdeth** · #**118** 12-04-2006, 09:07 PM

See, this is what bothers me. I'm going to try the "non-destructive" method. Since the strut assembly must be off, as I press the tower back down, do you all think that I will be able to line up the bolts on the strut plate to the holes in the tower? Or, is it possible that it could stretch the metal, thus throwing the holes out of alignment?

GoodFinder · #**119** 12-04-2006, 09:11 PM

I bet if you talked (on the side) with most of the service techs at the higher volume MINI dealerships, they'd agree the strut tower mushrooming problem sure seems like something that shouldn't be happening from a top name manufacturer.

I experienced mushrooming on my brand new GP on the driver's side while driving it back from Laguna Seca on MTTS. The combined weight of the GP wheels and tires is 41 pounds (the last time I weighed it) which is not super light but also not as heavy as many combos either.

I took my GP to an experienced shop (in other words, they've worked on a lot of track and race cars) and had them use the "block of wood and a hammer" to get the top surface reasonably flat again (on my new GP).

My '05 MCS with over 26,000 miles, both sides totally flat, no mushrooming, go figure.

AKIndiMini · #**120** 12-04-2006, 09:12 PM

Did you have to raise the Mini off the ground before banging the strut towers back down?

Considering the price of the SRPs and the amount of potholes here in Alaska...I'm getting a set ASAP before my car gets damaged any more. I've never had a car that had strut tower mushrooming problems. Hopefully this is the only problem I'll have w/ my beloved Mini. *knock on wood* hehe

Quote:

Originally Posted by erickvonzipper

My right side tower had minor mushrooming. You might be able to install the brace without doing anything to the top of the tower if you can get the nut to screw down a few threads without resistance. I had to bang mine down just a bit to get the nuts started and down a few threads. Then I tightened them down slowly, alternating between the three until they were tight (don't use too much force). I could feel the top of the tower move as I tightened down the nuts.

ScottRiqui · #**121** 12-04-2006, 09:21 PM

You don't have to remove the struts. Just jack up the car so that the tire is off the ground, and then use a hammer and a block of wood to flatten out the affected strut tower. I had to do this on my wife's cabrio - after only 6,000 miles and no hard pothole hits, the M7 SRP wouldn't even fit over the bolts on the passenger side. Just to be safe, I put a pair on my cabrio the day I brought it home from the dealership.

Scott

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIndiMini

Question for those of you with minor strut tower mushrooming...

After inspecting my car, I found that the towers have a little bit of mushrooming, more so on the passenger side. I'm looking at getting the M7 SRPs. I'll have to straighten the towers before installing these, right? What exactly is the procedure for straightening the strut tower? Will I have to remove the struts? Thanks in advance!

johnnymg · #**122** 12-06-2006, 09:01 AM

Has anyone heard if the 07 mini has been beefed-up in this strut tower area?

Thanks
JohnG

caminifan · #**123** 12-06-2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnymg

Has anyone heard if the 07 mini has been beefed-up in this strut tower area?

Thanks
JohnG

It (the R56 MINI) hasn't even hit the dealers yet. I doubt that reinforced strut tower sheetmetal will make it into a fetures/technical specification power point briefing/dealer sales staff training document.

motonikki812 · #**124** 12-07-2006, 11:49 PM

I am pretty new to MINIs and am just kinda realizing what a big deal this mushrooming is!!

When I inspect the towers am I basically looking for them not being flat on top?

If there is any sort of dome shape to them at all are they mushrooming?

Are the M7 SRP's the cheapest way to counter this problem?
I was thinking of gettting the IE fixed camber plates... Is this also a good way to battle this problem? They are fairly inexpensive as well.
Is a STB good at helping this or are the other products mentioned better? I dont really need the bling or the added benefits at this point of a STB. I would eventully like to get one, but am more worried about the fighting the dreaded mushrooming at this point. If my MINI is mushrooming I am going to be bummed....

Last night I find out about the door sill rust... Now the mushrooming... Whats next? This damn car is like a sick child!!! Why am I so emotionally concerned!!!???

My wife has the car right now... I wish I could check it out... The suspense is killing me!!!

AKIndiMini · #**125** 12-08-2006, 02:35 AM

You are basically looking at the mounting surface where the strut is bolted to the tower (3 nuts). These should all be on the same flat plane. To my dismay, I found that my passenger side had a very slight dome shape to them. You can even see the studs for the strut mount pointing slightly outward as a result. Fortunately, the driver's side still appears to be nice and flat. Being that I live in Alaska, the Mini gets driven on dirt roads and I have been VERY careful about avoiding potholes. The M7 SRPs seem to be one of the best ways to reinforce this vulnerable area...hopefully I'll get a set for Christmas.

But luckily for me, my Mini doesn't suffer from the door sill rust at all. That was a HUGE relief.

These cars are just so much fun, and it's sooooo easy to get attached to them. I can't think of ANY other car I've owned that I like as much as my Mini.

Best of luck to you. I certainly hope you're one of the lucky ones w/o the mushrooming problem. Keep us posted!

Quote:

Originally Posted by motonikki812

I am pretty new to MINIs and am just kinda realizing what a big deal this mushrooming is!!

When I inspect the towers am I basically looking for them not being flat on top?

If there is any sort of dome shape to them at all are they mushrooming?

Are the M7 SRP's the cheapest way to counter this problem?
I was thinking of gettting the IE fixed camber plates... Is this also a good way to battle this problem? They are fairly inexpensive as well.
Is a STB good at helping this or are the other products mentioned better? I dont really need the bling or the added benefits at this point of a STB. I would eventully like to get one, but am more worried about the fighting the dreaded mushrooming at this point. If my MINI is mushrooming I am going to be bummed....

Last night I find out about the door sill rust... Now the mushrooming... Whats next? This damn car is like a sick child!!! Why am I so emotionally concerned!!!???

My wife has the car right now... I wish I could check it out... The suspense is killing me!!!